5 ms·

Great, the start of model segmentation where I'm gonna need a legal license to ask about legal problems, a nutritionist license to create a meal plan, a medical

Great, the start of model segmentation where I'm gonna need a legal license to ask about legal problems, a nutritionist license to create a meal plan, a medical license to ask about an x-ray, a pilots license to ask about a flight plan, be a registered electrician to ask how to wire something, etc etc. The licensing of allowed thoughts. Apparently I can pay for partial solutions to the Riemann hypothesis but if my question involves a crackme or something that is an existential risk somehow.

siva7 2mo ago
[flagged]
- mexicojalisco 2mo ago
  Furthermore everybody should need a license from the government or industry to cook morning breakfast on the stove. Fire hazards and all. Could do real harm if something went wrong.
  - copperx 2mo ago
    You do need a license to sell food in most countries.
    - DaSHacka 2mo ago
      What about just producing food?
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- hbosch 2mo ago
  How much will a license cost? Can it be earned? If granted, granted by whom? Can I use it across models? Does it need to be reassessed regularly? How often? If any of the above are more convenient than paying an engineer you aren’t any safer, the enterprise paying is just putting money in someone else’s pocket.
  - sroussey 2mo ago
    Most engineers have licenses in the engineering discipline, except Electric Engineers. Mechanical and Civil. Engineering is based on the constraints of physics thus applied to mankind uses. Now if you talk about software "engineers" (as i am one), that is quite fast and loose. Based on the damage done in some sectors, it would be interesting to see an alternative history where software required licenses and degrees. Certainly, the larger tech ecosystem would have moved more slowly, and products more expensive. While EE are basically held accountable by their employers, and the physics of it all requiring that things work correctly, software developers don't have the same kind of feedback loop. Thus any country that did not play into that system would compete on features over quality. I don't think that would have lasted. Same issue with "pausing" AI development in one country.
    - idiotsecant 2mo ago
      There are definitely a ton of PE electrical engineers. The power industry - transmission, generation, distribution, is rife with them.
      - vel0city 2mo ago
        I do agree there's tons of PE electrical engineers. I also think there's a massive number of job roles which relate to a BS/MS EE degrees where nobody really gives a shit if you have a stamp or not.
    - stackghost 2mo ago
      >While EE are basically held accountable by their employers Licensed engineers are technically held accountable by their peers. The definition of a profession (versus just a job) is that professionals as a group are self-regulating. That is why e.g. doctors can be disciplined by their College, and lawyers can be disbarred by the legal society. This is because Professional Engineering is actually a social process, not really a technical one. The work is technical, sure, but the reason we have Professional Engineers is because society realized long ago that letting any idiot build e.g. a bridge for public traffic is a bad idea. Society, via legislation, grants professional licensing bodies special privileges in return for exerting control over the practising members of that profession. The reason you don't see as many EEs (or aerospace) engineers with PEs is because the products that get produced in those specialties get certified in different ways. There's no bridge equivalent to the FCC, for example.
- matheusmoreira 2mo ago
  > just like lawyers or doctors won't Pretty big assumption.
- xyzzy123 2mo ago
  I can't tell if your comment is satire or not, so, bravo :) From my perspective what I always loved about "the profession" was a relative LACK of gatekeeping. I loved offensive security for the same reason, there was a long run where you really just needed to be able to hack, and if you could demonstrate that there was a job for you somewhere (for better or worse). Keeping the industry in its current form frozen in amber would be as weird as, I don't know, keeping horses & carriages in business by regulating scarcity of motor vehicle licenses. Not a great analogy but hopefully you see what I mean.
- mpalmer 2mo ago
  That would be doing the wrong thing for precisely the wrong reasons.
- bellowsgulch 2mo ago
  I don't want this, but I do get what you're saying. What I really want is software engineers in our industry to stop behaving like such idiot losers who are begging to be jobless and give everything away for free. Doctors protect doctor's interests. Lawyers aren't idiots, they're professionals who run businesses with the express intent to make money. Software engineers seem to be just bright enough to make money, and just stupid enough to say, no no, please I'd prefer to be homeless, please take my job and automate me, offshore me, and devalue my salary out of existence all at once.
  - derektank 2mo ago
    >Doctors protect doctor's interests. Lawyers aren't idiots, they're professionals who run businesses with the express intent to make money. And this is generally a bad thing, to be clear. It often comes in the form of rent seeking which should be fought tooth and nail by the rest of society.
    - bellowsgulch 2mo ago
      Yeah, we should let H1Bs take everyone's jobs, not just software engineers! Great idea, Bob!
  - AbbeFaria 2mo ago
    It’s the nature of our jobs. The artefacts we produce, code and documentation are out in the open, available freely for training LLMs. That’s not true for highly qualified doctors, patient case histories, patient feedback that helps doctors diagnose or treat patients or for surgeons to operate on patients. All of these actions are high stakes, get it wrong and people could die, AI would never be able to replace them.
    - bellowsgulch 2mo ago
      Ah right, you mean people’s banking data, medical records, and other sensitive information should be freely handled by offshored labor with no qualifications right, right. Let’s take a look at the industry’s track record for data breaches. Huh, would you look at that. Also, please. Like most physicians are doing any serious thinking that can’t be informed by prescription that they regurgitate from established practice. Your run-of-the-mill physician isn’t doing independent study. They’re reading labs and writing a script. Give me a break. “Make me homeless, make me homeless! Please, please offshore me! I beg you!”
- culi 2mo ago
  Nobody wants to license programming. The skillsets are far too diverse and rapidly changing anyways. What programmers could use though is a union
- prettyblocks 2mo ago
  In what dystopian black mirror alternate reality can anyone possibly perceive this as saving the profession of programming? It sounds like hell.
RealWed5 2mo ago
+1. And these ^^^ are exactly my thoughts for which I had been downvoted to oblivion before. TaDa. They materialise.
- RealWed5 2mo ago
  LOL ... and same people keep downvoting me. Right. Good luck.
stackghost 2mo ago
Just today, 5.6-sol refused to elaborate on a security vulnerability it claimed it had identified in my code. It could plainly see the git history with my name on every commit going back to inception, but apparently elaborating on the nature of a purported vulnerability is too scary for openai. It would fix it for me, automatically, if I was willing to let it run amok in my codebase. But asking if the "vuln" was exploitable triggered the guardrails and a "we can't show you this content" error because I am not part of the cybersecurty Trusted Access bullshit.
- ch4s3 2mo ago
  Could you ask it to write a failing test before fixing it?
  - stackghost 2mo ago
    I could also ask it to fix it and look at the diff, but that's rather beside the point, don't you think?
    - ch4s3 2mo ago
      Oh totally, it’s pretty silly.
- graceful6800 2mo ago
  I had 5.6 refuse to back up my android tablet the other day because it involved root access. Outstanding technology, truly amazing what man has managed to create.
  - DoctorOetker 2mo ago
    I have heard AI can already fly (it carries your laptop to the ceiling when it does), but usually it refuses to demonstrate this capability for safety reasons.
    - anakaine 2mo ago
bryanlarsen 2mo ago
It's the open weight models that will save us from this fate. OTOH, this is the cudgel that incumbents will use to get the government to protect them from open weight models.
- ragequittah 2mo ago
  I imagine the cudgel will be when the models are good enough and some moron sets their openclaw to hack a hospital or other critical infrastructure. I feel like we've learned nothing from the ransomware problems of recent history. Are we really saying it's a good idea to throw such capabilities in every emo teenager's hands because freedom?
pants2 2mo ago
The frontier labs would rather charge a premium for the best capabilities. You joke but they will probably soon have a GPT-bio that they license to Pfizer and a GPT-quant that they license to Citadel, rather than keeping those valuable capabilities in the public models.
- subhobroto 2mo ago
  > but they will probably soon have a GPT-bio that they license to Pfizer and a GPT-quant that they license to Citadel, rather than keeping those valuable capabilities in the public models Nein. Neither Pfizer nor Citadel are going to use a hosted model - their whole business is IP. They will invest in self hosting models. Self hosting is becoming a big deal in the industries you're talking about. Why? Neither Pfizer nor Citadel wants to pay a supplier/vendor to build a core capability that the supplier/vendor will turn around and sell to their competition.
  - foobar10000 2mo ago
    Citadel already is. They are happy to do it - bedrock is the host of choice. They are less happy about cost - but that is a question of value :)
    - subhobroto 2mo ago
      Citadel are using which models on bedrock and for what purpose? Core portfolio research? Update Confluence pages and JIRA tickets? Create marketing copy?
  - pants2 2mo ago
    Sure, and OpenAI will be happy to let them self-host for a large fee. However I doubt that Pfizer will be developing their own frontier models for biological research.

siva7 2mo ago

[flagged]

mexicojalisco 2mo ago
Furthermore everybody should need a license from the government or industry to cook morning breakfast on the stove. Fire hazards and all. Could do real harm if something went wrong.
- copperx 2mo ago
  You do need a license to sell food in most countries.
  - DaSHacka 2mo ago
    What about just producing food?
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
hbosch 2mo ago
How much will a license cost? Can it be earned? If granted, granted by whom? Can I use it across models? Does it need to be reassessed regularly? How often? If any of the above are more convenient than paying an engineer you aren’t any safer, the enterprise paying is just putting money in someone else’s pocket.
- sroussey 2mo ago
  Most engineers have licenses in the engineering discipline, except Electric Engineers. Mechanical and Civil. Engineering is based on the constraints of physics thus applied to mankind uses. Now if you talk about software "engineers" (as i am one), that is quite fast and loose. Based on the damage done in some sectors, it would be interesting to see an alternative history where software required licenses and degrees. Certainly, the larger tech ecosystem would have moved more slowly, and products more expensive. While EE are basically held accountable by their employers, and the physics of it all requiring that things work correctly, software developers don't have the same kind of feedback loop. Thus any country that did not play into that system would compete on features over quality. I don't think that would have lasted. Same issue with "pausing" AI development in one country.
  - idiotsecant 2mo ago
    There are definitely a ton of PE electrical engineers. The power industry - transmission, generation, distribution, is rife with them.
    - vel0city 2mo ago
      I do agree there's tons of PE electrical engineers. I also think there's a massive number of job roles which relate to a BS/MS EE degrees where nobody really gives a shit if you have a stamp or not.
  - stackghost 2mo ago
    >While EE are basically held accountable by their employers Licensed engineers are technically held accountable by their peers. The definition of a profession (versus just a job) is that professionals as a group are self-regulating. That is why e.g. doctors can be disciplined by their College, and lawyers can be disbarred by the legal society. This is because Professional Engineering is actually a social process, not really a technical one. The work is technical, sure, but the reason we have Professional Engineers is because society realized long ago that letting any idiot build e.g. a bridge for public traffic is a bad idea. Society, via legislation, grants professional licensing bodies special privileges in return for exerting control over the practising members of that profession. The reason you don't see as many EEs (or aerospace) engineers with PEs is because the products that get produced in those specialties get certified in different ways. There's no bridge equivalent to the FCC, for example.
matheusmoreira 2mo ago
> just like lawyers or doctors won't Pretty big assumption.
xyzzy123 2mo ago
I can't tell if your comment is satire or not, so, bravo :) From my perspective what I always loved about "the profession" was a relative LACK of gatekeeping. I loved offensive security for the same reason, there was a long run where you really just needed to be able to hack, and if you could demonstrate that there was a job for you somewhere (for better or worse). Keeping the industry in its current form frozen in amber would be as weird as, I don't know, keeping horses & carriages in business by regulating scarcity of motor vehicle licenses. Not a great analogy but hopefully you see what I mean.
mpalmer 2mo ago
That would be doing the wrong thing for precisely the wrong reasons.
bellowsgulch 2mo ago
I don't want this, but I do get what you're saying. What I really want is software engineers in our industry to stop behaving like such idiot losers who are begging to be jobless and give everything away for free. Doctors protect doctor's interests. Lawyers aren't idiots, they're professionals who run businesses with the express intent to make money. Software engineers seem to be just bright enough to make money, and just stupid enough to say, no no, please I'd prefer to be homeless, please take my job and automate me, offshore me, and devalue my salary out of existence all at once.
- derektank 2mo ago
  >Doctors protect doctor's interests. Lawyers aren't idiots, they're professionals who run businesses with the express intent to make money. And this is generally a bad thing, to be clear. It often comes in the form of rent seeking which should be fought tooth and nail by the rest of society.
  - bellowsgulch 2mo ago
    Yeah, we should let H1Bs take everyone's jobs, not just software engineers! Great idea, Bob!
- AbbeFaria 2mo ago
  It’s the nature of our jobs. The artefacts we produce, code and documentation are out in the open, available freely for training LLMs. That’s not true for highly qualified doctors, patient case histories, patient feedback that helps doctors diagnose or treat patients or for surgeons to operate on patients. All of these actions are high stakes, get it wrong and people could die, AI would never be able to replace them.
  - bellowsgulch 2mo ago
    Ah right, you mean people’s banking data, medical records, and other sensitive information should be freely handled by offshored labor with no qualifications right, right. Let’s take a look at the industry’s track record for data breaches. Huh, would you look at that. Also, please. Like most physicians are doing any serious thinking that can’t be informed by prescription that they regurgitate from established practice. Your run-of-the-mill physician isn’t doing independent study. They’re reading labs and writing a script. Give me a break. “Make me homeless, make me homeless! Please, please offshore me! I beg you!”
culi 2mo ago
Nobody wants to license programming. The skillsets are far too diverse and rapidly changing anyways. What programmers could use though is a union
prettyblocks 2mo ago
In what dystopian black mirror alternate reality can anyone possibly perceive this as saving the profession of programming? It sounds like hell.

RealWed5 2mo ago

+1. And these ^^^ are exactly my thoughts for which I had been downvoted to oblivion before. TaDa. They materialise.

RealWed5 2mo ago
LOL ... and same people keep downvoting me. Right. Good luck.

stackghost 2mo ago

Just today, 5.6-sol refused to elaborate on a security vulnerability it claimed it had identified in my code. It could plainly see the git history with my name on every commit going back to inception, but apparently elaborating on the nature of a purported vulnerability is too scary for openai. It would fix it for me, automatically, if I was willing to let it run amok in my codebase. But asking if the "vuln" was exploitable triggered the guardrails and a "we can't show you this content" error because I am not part of the cybersecurty Trusted Access bullshit.

ch4s3 2mo ago
Could you ask it to write a failing test before fixing it?
- stackghost 2mo ago
  I could also ask it to fix it and look at the diff, but that's rather beside the point, don't you think?
  - ch4s3 2mo ago
    Oh totally, it’s pretty silly.
graceful6800 2mo ago
I had 5.6 refuse to back up my android tablet the other day because it involved root access. Outstanding technology, truly amazing what man has managed to create.
- DoctorOetker 2mo ago
  I have heard AI can already fly (it carries your laptop to the ceiling when it does), but usually it refuses to demonstrate this capability for safety reasons.
  - anakaine 2mo ago

bryanlarsen 2mo ago

It's the open weight models that will save us from this fate. OTOH, this is the cudgel that incumbents will use to get the government to protect them from open weight models.

ragequittah 2mo ago
I imagine the cudgel will be when the models are good enough and some moron sets their openclaw to hack a hospital or other critical infrastructure. I feel like we've learned nothing from the ransomware problems of recent history. Are we really saying it's a good idea to throw such capabilities in every emo teenager's hands because freedom?

pants2 2mo ago

The frontier labs would rather charge a premium for the best capabilities. You joke but they will probably soon have a GPT-bio that they license to Pfizer and a GPT-quant that they license to Citadel, rather than keeping those valuable capabilities in the public models.

subhobroto 2mo ago
> but they will probably soon have a GPT-bio that they license to Pfizer and a GPT-quant that they license to Citadel, rather than keeping those valuable capabilities in the public models Nein. Neither Pfizer nor Citadel are going to use a hosted model - their whole business is IP. They will invest in self hosting models. Self hosting is becoming a big deal in the industries you're talking about. Why? Neither Pfizer nor Citadel wants to pay a supplier/vendor to build a core capability that the supplier/vendor will turn around and sell to their competition.
- foobar10000 2mo ago
  Citadel already is. They are happy to do it - bedrock is the host of choice. They are less happy about cost - but that is a question of value :)
  - subhobroto 2mo ago
    Citadel are using which models on bedrock and for what purpose? Core portfolio research? Update Confluence pages and JIRA tickets? Create marketing copy?
- pants2 2mo ago
  Sure, and OpenAI will be happy to let them self-host for a large fee. However I doubt that Pfizer will be developing their own frontier models for biological research.