8 ms·

> It's a concept that's difficult to replicate elsewhere, but Lydon compares it to what made old Main Street America so special. Designing at a people-first sca

> It's a concept that's difficult to replicate elsewhere, but Lydon compares it to what made old Main Street America so special. Designing at a people-first scale pays off. "The smell of fried croquettes drifting onto the streets, small shops run by the building owners, easy public transit access, a feeling of safety and community for all ages… it's hard to overstate how well this all works." Honestly, even though I love the idea of Japan and the idealized vision of Japan that's often presented in the media, I can't help thinking that a lot of this stuff can be found much closer to home in Europe. The BBC didn't need to go all the way to Tokyo - they could find this in pretty much any Spanish city.

packetlost 2mo ago
That kind of thing is extremely rare in the US sadly.
- solarmist 2mo ago
  Nowadays. The last 50 years haven't been kind to people in the US.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    I'd feel more sorry if they hadn't voted for it every two years for the last 50.
- qurren 2mo ago
  And outside of a handful of New England towns, wherever that kind of city planning exists in the US, those parts of town are inhabited by half-dead zombies on meth whispering threats at you as you walk by. Not a pleasant experience. That's why sane people in the US usually move to suburbia as soon as they can afford a car.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    That's probably because the US said that meth addicts aren't allowed to exist indoors. So instead they exist outdoors. Who would've expected that?
fidotron 2mo ago
> smell of fried croquettes drifting onto the streets, small shops run by the building owners, easy public transit access The genius of the BBC is to gloss over that in a culture that isn't Japanese these things all easily become negatives. Who wants the smell of other people's food, maybe from a cuisine you hate? Or new local businesses cannot start because they can't buy property limiting options for consumers? And public transit stops become noise and litter parties.
- Avicebron 2mo ago
  I can tell you haven't been to japan, the noise and litter issues aren't as much of a problem there. Get to the bottom of why that is and you'll probably have a good understanding where the problems to address are.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    Is it the monoethnicity?
    - Avicebron 2mo ago
      Do you think being prosocial is genetic?
      - inigyou 2mo ago
        I have no idea. You clearly do, because you know an answer you're inviting all of us to guess.
    - redsocksfan45 2mo ago
      [dead]
- numbers_guy 2mo ago
  Exactly what I was thinking. In Europe (e.g. UK or Germany) people often complain when chip shops or other fried food establishments open below them, because of the constant smells.
PaulRobinson 2mo ago
TFA explains that Japan is unusual as being the only country in Asia with two cities in the top 10 most liveable cities in the World. That's why they wrote the article. If Spain had been the only country in Europe with two cities in the top 10, they might have done it in Spain.
- red-iron-pine 2mo ago
  plus it's the BBC, plenty of UK-ians living in Spain. No need to highlight that when a solid chunk of the readership are in or will go to Hispania
danudey 2mo ago
Or come to downtown Vancouver. I live in a small apartment, but within four blocks I have a community centre with gym, a pharmacy, a post office, a grocery store, a small bakery, the best liquor store in the city, three banks, a hot pot restaurant, a physiotherapist/massage therapist office, a vet, a dispensary, multiple hairdressers, an optometrist, several restaurants, two places to get gelato, a public plaza with a weekly farmer's market, a walking/cycling route along the waterfront, a car wash, a sports bar with arcade machines, skeeball, and pinball, an enclosed pollinator meadow, a science museum/IMAX theatre, two separate public "subway" lines (though one is elevated and one is below-grade), and two private but inexpensive water taxi services. I can leave my house at 6 AM and go get fresh bread or baked goods and go sit by the water, or I can leave the house at 7 AM to get groceries if I'm out of something and be back by 7:10. American cities don't want this because having a huge empty house with a huge empty yard and having to drive 90 minutes to get to work or 30 minutes to get groceries is the American Dream and no one who's been sold this dream wants to believe that there are so many better and more efficient ways to live.
- giwook 2mo ago
  One key difference that jumps out at me between various cities in Japan and Vancouver is that the COL seems significantly better in Japan. When I visited Vancouver I couldn't afford to stay in or even near the city, I had to find a place about 20 minutes away and even then it was pricey. Whereas in Japan I had no problem finding affordable stays in city centers in all of the major cities I visited, including Tokyo. I will admit my ignorance here however and acknowledge there are likely myriad other variables at play here that I'm not considering.
  - jerlam 2mo ago
    As a visitor, it's probably impossible to know the real cost of living is in different areas, because you're not employed locally, paid local wages, or paying rent and utilities. You are a foreigner with foreign money staying in hotels.
  - pibaker 2mo ago
    Affordable to you or affordable to the locals? The yen has devalued a lot in the past decade or so, giving foreigners a lot more spending power in Japan and causing the current tourism boom and backlash.
wiether 2mo ago
> The smell of fried croquettes I have this on my way back how, well, fried potatoes/chips actually, and I hate it. But yeah, this description matches the city I live in here in France.
TacticalCoder 2mo ago
> ... they could find this in pretty much any Spanish city That's a horseload of bullcrap. For a start there are plenty of pickpockets in many spanish cities (not just Madrid, Barcelona and Valencia). Then there are people visiting houses: don't tell me it doesn't happen for I had my house visited by thieves the one time I forgot to put the alarm on (because I had to run to the ER for my daughter was between life and death). I happen to know both Spain and Japan very well (I've got family in Japan): there's not anywhere near the level of safety you have in Tokyo in spanish cities. Not even close.
- donw 2mo ago
  It's funny how these articles always conveniently skip over the most important point: you first have to fill your city with Japanese people.
  - analog31 2mo ago
    I don't think this is as absurd as it sounds. Come to the US Midwest. "Wisconsin nice" is a stereotype, and makes us seem a little bit like hicks, but it's real. People really are polite to one another. A friend from one of the coasts observed after a long trip through rural areas by bike: "Nobody tried to kill me." Sometimes our infrastructure and zoning are awkward, and we're too reliant on cars, but I still think there's hope.
- MiroslavPokorny 2mo ago
  But nobody in Japan is actually living. They are all in a rush to get home or work or school. I feel sorry how little time they actually get to do things they want to do on their own schedule.
  - richardatlarge 2mo ago
    Japanese live for the afterlife, but know there isn't one, so it's coming apart.
  - TitaRusell 2mo ago
pezezin 2mo ago
> The BBC didn't need to go all the way to Tokyo - they could find this in pretty much any Spanish city. This. When my Japanese girlfriend finally visited my small hometown in Spain, she was surprised how lively the city was. Not Madrid or Barcelona, but just a small 100k city. In Japan the big cities are cool, but small cities are ugly and boring.

packetlost 2mo ago

That kind of thing is extremely rare in the US sadly.

solarmist 2mo ago
Nowadays. The last 50 years haven't been kind to people in the US.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  I'd feel more sorry if they hadn't voted for it every two years for the last 50.
qurren 2mo ago
And outside of a handful of New England towns, wherever that kind of city planning exists in the US, those parts of town are inhabited by half-dead zombies on meth whispering threats at you as you walk by. Not a pleasant experience. That's why sane people in the US usually move to suburbia as soon as they can afford a car.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  That's probably because the US said that meth addicts aren't allowed to exist indoors. So instead they exist outdoors. Who would've expected that?

fidotron 2mo ago

> smell of fried croquettes drifting onto the streets, small shops run by the building owners, easy public transit access The genius of the BBC is to gloss over that in a culture that isn't Japanese these things all easily become negatives. Who wants the smell of other people's food, maybe from a cuisine you hate? Or new local businesses cannot start because they can't buy property limiting options for consumers? And public transit stops become noise and litter parties.

Avicebron 2mo ago
I can tell you haven't been to japan, the noise and litter issues aren't as much of a problem there. Get to the bottom of why that is and you'll probably have a good understanding where the problems to address are.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Is it the monoethnicity?
  - Avicebron 2mo ago
    Do you think being prosocial is genetic?
    - inigyou 2mo ago
      I have no idea. You clearly do, because you know an answer you're inviting all of us to guess.
  - redsocksfan45 2mo ago
    [dead]
numbers_guy 2mo ago
Exactly what I was thinking. In Europe (e.g. UK or Germany) people often complain when chip shops or other fried food establishments open below them, because of the constant smells.

PaulRobinson 2mo ago

TFA explains that Japan is unusual as being the only country in Asia with two cities in the top 10 most liveable cities in the World. That's why they wrote the article. If Spain had been the only country in Europe with two cities in the top 10, they might have done it in Spain.

red-iron-pine 2mo ago
plus it's the BBC, plenty of UK-ians living in Spain. No need to highlight that when a solid chunk of the readership are in or will go to Hispania

danudey 2mo ago

Or come to downtown Vancouver. I live in a small apartment, but within four blocks I have a community centre with gym, a pharmacy, a post office, a grocery store, a small bakery, the best liquor store in the city, three banks, a hot pot restaurant, a physiotherapist/massage therapist office, a vet, a dispensary, multiple hairdressers, an optometrist, several restaurants, two places to get gelato, a public plaza with a weekly farmer's market, a walking/cycling route along the waterfront, a car wash, a sports bar with arcade machines, skeeball, and pinball, an enclosed pollinator meadow, a science museum/IMAX theatre, two separate public "subway" lines (though one is elevated and one is below-grade), and two private but inexpensive water taxi services. I can leave my house at 6 AM and go get fresh bread or baked goods and go sit by the water, or I can leave the house at 7 AM to get groceries if I'm out of something and be back by 7:10. American cities don't want this because having a huge empty house with a huge empty yard and having to drive 90 minutes to get to work or 30 minutes to get groceries is the American Dream and no one who's been sold this dream wants to believe that there are so many better and more efficient ways to live.

giwook 2mo ago
One key difference that jumps out at me between various cities in Japan and Vancouver is that the COL seems significantly better in Japan. When I visited Vancouver I couldn't afford to stay in or even near the city, I had to find a place about 20 minutes away and even then it was pricey. Whereas in Japan I had no problem finding affordable stays in city centers in all of the major cities I visited, including Tokyo. I will admit my ignorance here however and acknowledge there are likely myriad other variables at play here that I'm not considering.
- jerlam 2mo ago
  As a visitor, it's probably impossible to know the real cost of living is in different areas, because you're not employed locally, paid local wages, or paying rent and utilities. You are a foreigner with foreign money staying in hotels.
- pibaker 2mo ago
  Affordable to you or affordable to the locals? The yen has devalued a lot in the past decade or so, giving foreigners a lot more spending power in Japan and causing the current tourism boom and backlash.

wiether 2mo ago

> The smell of fried croquettes I have this on my way back how, well, fried potatoes/chips actually, and I hate it. But yeah, this description matches the city I live in here in France.

TacticalCoder 2mo ago

> ... they could find this in pretty much any Spanish city That's a horseload of bullcrap. For a start there are plenty of pickpockets in many spanish cities (not just Madrid, Barcelona and Valencia). Then there are people visiting houses: don't tell me it doesn't happen for I had my house visited by thieves the one time I forgot to put the alarm on (because I had to run to the ER for my daughter was between life and death). I happen to know both Spain and Japan very well (I've got family in Japan): there's not anywhere near the level of safety you have in Tokyo in spanish cities. Not even close.

donw 2mo ago
It's funny how these articles always conveniently skip over the most important point: you first have to fill your city with Japanese people.
- analog31 2mo ago
  I don't think this is as absurd as it sounds. Come to the US Midwest. "Wisconsin nice" is a stereotype, and makes us seem a little bit like hicks, but it's real. People really are polite to one another. A friend from one of the coasts observed after a long trip through rural areas by bike: "Nobody tried to kill me." Sometimes our infrastructure and zoning are awkward, and we're too reliant on cars, but I still think there's hope.
MiroslavPokorny 2mo ago
But nobody in Japan is actually living. They are all in a rush to get home or work or school. I feel sorry how little time they actually get to do things they want to do on their own schedule.
- richardatlarge 2mo ago
  Japanese live for the afterlife, but know there isn't one, so it's coming apart.
- TitaRusell 2mo ago

pezezin 2mo ago

> The BBC didn't need to go all the way to Tokyo - they could find this in pretty much any Spanish city. This. When my Japanese girlfriend finally visited my small hometown in Spain, she was surprised how lively the city was. Not Madrid or Barcelona, but just a small 100k city. In Japan the big cities are cool, but small cities are ugly and boring.