7 ms·

Show HN: I spent 2 years designing a mechanical Magic Keyboard

306 points by aemerson_ 2mo ago

Hi HN, today I’m revealing Altar II, an ultra-low profile (4.75mm) mechanical keyboard designed to replace your Magic Keyboard. It’s the keyboard I wish Apple made. Altar II has fully mechanical switches, plus a magnetically detachable dial, haptic feedback, a red backlight, and a native macOS companion app. I’m a heavy Mac user and I feel that Apple hasn’t given its keyboards the attention they deserve, in terms of hardware, software, and features, so I set out to try and change that. It was a massive undertaking and it has taken almost 2 years to get to this stage. One of the main obstacles was fitting a reasonably sized battery into the chassis, and aggressive power profiling without messing with the user experience. Another issue was we couldn’t fit any components on the underside of the PCB because there was literally no space to do so (and there are a lot of components). Around 4 years ago I posted my first keyboard to HN (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32507172 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32507172). Its response blew me away and ultimately led to me quitting my job and making and selling keyboards full time. I’ve taken some of the feedback from that original post and incorporated it into Altar II (e.g. the detachable dial). I’ll be around to answer any questions. Please let me know what you think, I’d love to get some feedback.

macintacos 2mo ago
An option to get the board without such loud number keys would be an instant buy from me honestly.
johng 2mo ago
Wow, beautiful. Both the site and the keyboard. I put a deposit down. Edit: in reply to the person above because I keep getting a "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." error because I've made 2 posts in this thread apparently... Anyway, it would be neat if in the future the M-Dial slot could be used for a fingerprint reader or something else. Swappable items in that slot.
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  Thank you so much! Really appreciate it. Glad you like the website too, I put a lot of effort into it. If you have any questions I'd be very happy to answer them.
  - johng 2mo ago
    Honestly the price seems quite low for what you get (at $249) and what looks like might be a small batch production. I hope you can make a profit after everything is said and done at that price!
    - aemerson_ 2mo ago
      This price is only for people who reserve before we launch on Kickstarter. I agree it is good value but also I should point out the retail price will be $349 for anyone buying after we fulfil all the pre-orders. Rest assured we are building a sustainable business that will be around for the long haul.
charrondev 2mo ago
I’m assuming it’s not possible for it to include a fingerprint sensor? As much as I’d like a mechanical keyboard for my Mac that’s always the part that gets me. I end up using the one my Magic Keyboard 20+ times per workday. Otherwise it looks beautiful.
- ls-a 2mo ago
  Well there is this https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch
  - tpstevens 2mo ago
    And this as well, if you have a Magic Keyboard around: https://www.printables.com/model/320000-standalone-touch-id-module-for-mac https://www.printables.com/model/320000-standalone-touch-id-...
- cafebeen 2mo ago
  Yes, agreed. Beautiful keyboard, but when I heard "magic" I hoped to find a touch ID. That sensor so useful that even though I use a mechanical keyboard, I keep an apple magic keyboard off to the side of my desk just for the touch ID sensor. What I'd love to have is a standalone touch ID sensor that I could attach anywhere -- mechanical keyboard, side of the monitor, under my desk, etc. I guess this is bottlenecked by Apple's IP on the device, so I've considered just hacking one together by deconstructing and extracting an Apple keyboard...
  - xp84 2mo ago
    Some people I know just velcro a Magic Keyboard to the bottom of their desktop for this reason. So frustrating that Apple won't sell just a button even at any price. Gotta buy their terrible keyboard for $150 to get that. eyeroll
  - dbalatero 2mo ago
    I've built a few boxes: https://www.printables.com/model/355924-clickable-touch-id-box-tkl-board-wired https://www.printables.com/model/355924-clickable-touch-id-b... https://gist.github.com/KhaosT/1406a6b6bea38f59e059c2afcb39d545 https://gist.github.com/KhaosT/1406a6b6bea38f59e059c2afcb39d... You have to carefully tear down and extract the touch id sensor, and then remount it in a box. I went the battery route so it could stay wireless. The tradeoff is the box is bigger.
GZGavinZhao 2mo ago
Opened the site, thought it was teenage engineering... Which is a compliment to me, because I always love their designs! Unfortunately as a HHKB user I'm not a fan of low profile keyboards otherwise I would've bought this.
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  I appreciate the TE comparison! I am very inspired by them. Maybe in the future we can make a thicker keyboard for you.
- waffletower 2mo ago
  It couldn't have been Teenage Engineering: the keyboard was priced less than $999
ls-a 2mo ago
Looks nice. However, 2 years and you still squished the arrow keys into the rest of the keyboard. Unacceptable "design" mate. You need to talk with your customers.
sssilver 2mo ago
This looks wonderful. I wish it had the option to be ordered with blank keys.
pelagicAustral 2mo ago
Looks amazing. Would've been crazy good to include a few OLED keys a la Optimus Maximus [0], which has forever been a dream, even with all the negative reviews. [0] https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/ https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/
n-barraclough 2mo ago
I love this. I type with one hand, & I find mechanical keyboards with lots of travel very difficult because of the speed I type at and the depth that you need to make the key activate. It's a shame about the lack of fingerprint sensor - I wonder if there's any projects out there where you could rescue one from a donor keyboard & just put that in a small profile case nearby?
wilsonnb3 2mo ago
What does it feel like to type on?
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  It's kind of like a M-series Mac keyboard but with substantially more travel on the key (we have about 0.5mm more travel), and more of a more definitive sense of when the key is actuated. It's a much more tactile experience than the MacBook keyboards, but that is still the closest comparison.
K0nserv 2mo ago
Looks beautiful, congrats on the launch! I've been looking for a replacement for my Apple Magic keyboard. I would love to buy one, but ISO layout is a must for me, also would like blank or swappable keycaps.
bix6 2mo ago
Love it! Can you offer full color lighting instead of just red?
- jbonatakis 2mo ago
  I’d like to second this. Being able to change the color using the dial would be…satisfying.
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  I'm afraid not. For two reasons: Firstly it makes no sense for a backlight to be anything but a warm colour at night because it strains your eyes exactly when they are most prone to it (at night, in the dark). And secondly because it allows us some modest power savings. The chemistry used in our red LEDs (AlGaInP) is more power efficient than that used in other colours. Being a very thin device, we have a small battery, and therefore need to save power wherever we can.
aus10d 2mo ago
dang, this seems really amazing
Scarbutt 2mo ago
This looks great. Never liked the idea of having to add wrist rests to all these tall bulky mechanical keyboards. Does it support the globe key without having to use karabiner?
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  It does! We do some firmware trickery to make the globe key behave just like the Magic Keyboard. Can you tell me what exactly you use it for? I just want to make sure we have your use case covered.
  - Scarbutt 2mo ago
    Mostly for these: https://imgur.com/a/c5ty1Ml https://imgur.com/a/c5ty1Ml
    - aemerson_ 2mo ago
      Ah very interesting. I will make sure these are included.
realo 2mo ago
Nice! The devil is in the details. Do you have a french version? ...
- sam_lowry_ 2mo ago
  Just turn it upside down /s
bicepjai 2mo ago
Looks beautiful and great presentation of your efforts. Hope it lives up to its expectations. All the best
aaroninsf 2mo ago
Lovely engineering; if you bring it to market(?) I suggest offering if not full customization a range of aesthetics. Black/red is a hard no for me. Something fitting with the existing aesthetic (let's call it "Scandanavian milled", subtle frosting, white text) or warmer ("natural", off-white, orange LEDs) etc etc. One other question: waterproof? I assume that's not possible. Would be a decision maker for me personally probably.
nicksergeant 2mo ago
My dream keyboard, if only it could split down the middle for ergonomics :(
- ChaseRensberger 2mo ago
  yea split + ortholinear would be peak
  - jerlam 2mo ago
    Ergo users are never going to be happy. I'd complain about the lack of thumb keys, and then the flatness, and suddenly we're talking about a completely different keyboard.
wronex 2mo ago
Really cool! I’d love to try those switches. Can’t imagine using a non-split keyboard though. Great work regardless. Stunning.
j_aime 2mo ago
Wow I not expecting to see that! I love it!!! Good work!
n0t3ths81 2mo ago
[dead]
handfuloflight 2mo ago
Beautiful! Looking forward to the Kickstarter. But also, why is it completely flat?
richwater 2mo ago
These switches remind me of the butterfly switches on previous generations of Macbooks....not a great memory
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  Yes the butterfly switches were pretty bad. Superficially ours are similar but there are a few key differences: - Ours has an actual mechanical switch (with a spring and contact leaf) that is pressed, the butterfly switches were a metal dome - Our switches have much more vertical travel (1.8mm) compared to the butterfly switches (~0.5mm). A big part of the issues with the butterfly switches was they had tiny tolerances, so specks of dust or dirt could jam them. Since our switches are so much larger, this is less of a problem - Butterfly switch arms were made from plastic, our arms are made from steel.
  - richwater 2mo ago
    Thank you for the response. Good luck on your endeavor!
rckclmbr 2mo ago
Love the keyboard, looks solid. Out of curiosity, why did you make the numbers so big? It looks like an intentional design choice and I don’t know if I like it, but I’m wondering if there’s reasoning behind it that could change my mind
- charlesrice 2mo ago
  Yeah it seems like if they wanted to make it appeal to Apple people they would make it more consistent and subtle. It's all so clean and then the numbers look like they came off a special calculator for people with failing eyesight.
anentropic 2mo ago
Any plans for a model with numeric keypad too?
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  Not at the moment. If we did a numpad I would probably do it as a separate device. Personally I don't like how the numpad sits between the edge of my keyboard and mouse. I'd prefer it to the left of my keyboard or to the right side of my mouse.
  - anentropic 2mo ago
    All well and good, but a full size with right-handed numpad is baked into my muscle memory from decades...
splittydev 2mo ago
Looks great, but sadly no fingerprint sensor is a deal breaker for me. I know it's not actually possible, so not your fault, but it's not for me. I rely on that thing way too much.
- toomuchtodo 2mo ago
  If on Mac, consider TinyTouch as a potential biometric hardware supplement when a keyboard does not support: https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch (no affiliation, saw a thread on it here)
- nerdjon 2mo ago
  When I saw the announcement I was kinda hoping that they were taking a magic keyboard, tearing it apart and adding the extra hardware to make having this possible. But seems like that is not the case.
hack1312 2mo ago
The autoplaying videos make your website unusable on mobile.
Locketgoma 2mo ago
It. It is real thing? cool.
dimitrieh 2mo ago
Great concept! I need eu layout with the extra button next to the left shift. Why I would buy is essentially. Thin, premium typing experience, accessibility features. Don't need the fancy dials, stick out buttons, or a speaker. Dim it down, and it would be perfect
AshamedBadger56 2mo ago
Absolutely love the design, features, website, attention to detail, and just...taste. It's been quite a while since I mashed that reserve button so quickly haha. Hope it lives up to the design and looks!
mistersquid 2mo ago
The promo website is something to behold and by itself is sufficient reason to chuck a buck at the possibility of Altar II coming into existence. Thank you, good luck, and looking forward!
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  Thank you so much! A genuinely silly amount of time went into the website. If you'll indulge me for a moment, because I never get to talk about this stuff: the corner radii of the cards on the site are actually "squircles" rather than perfect rounded corners. To me this is much more pleasing to the eye. The squircles are achieved by creating a PNG mask which is then 9-sliced and expanded to mask off the edge of the cards. Another mask is used for the stroke and laid on top of the first mask, to give the gradient border effect.
  - allenc 2mo ago
    That is a silly amount of detail that in many ways is what Apple design is known for.
  - internetter 2mo ago
    also see https://caniuse.com/?search=squircle https://caniuse.com/?search=squircle (though no gradient border)
- dmhmr 2mo ago
  It looks nice on mobile but I initially viewed it on desktop and found it unpleasant to use.
ethersteeds 2mo ago
This looks beautiful. While obviously a Mac keyboard, to what extent is it compatible with Linux? Will there be documentation of its features beyond a standard Bluetooth HID, such that users could potentially develop software that utilizes the speaker and haptic feedback mechanisms?
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  It is fully compatible with Linux with respect to typing, volume control and so on. The firmware source code will be published publicly on Github in the future, as our other keyboard (Altar I) is: https://github.com/electronicmaterialsoffice/firmware-altar-i https://github.com/electronicmaterialsoffice/firmware-altar-.... Anyone is welcome to play around with it.
yassa9 2mo ago
I like the website more than the keyboard itself
hparadiz 2mo ago
Add a finger print sensor at some point. Lovely design.
pierrefermat1 2mo ago
For those in the comment section looking for a split alternative to this, there is this Kickstarter(be warned of the usual problems with Kickstarters): https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-s... or this that is in stock but doesn't exactly follow Apple's layout https://www.ozokeyboards.com/products/jiffy75-wireless-split-low-profile-mechanical-keyboard?variant=47387360788733 https://www.ozokeyboards.com/products/jiffy75-wireless-split...
edumucelli 2mo ago
Beautiful, would it work on Linux? Btw, the website is really heavy for my connection.
ary 2mo ago
To everyone who is about to pile on regarding the lack of a fingerprint sensor: you know it's not possible, we all know it's not possible, the creator of this project knows it's not possible. What are you adding to the conversation when you complain about it? So it's a dealbreaker for you, don't buy it. To @aemerson_: Congratulations on taking a risk. On first look this is great work. The attention to detail on both the keyboard and the website is really impressive.
- gtsteve 2mo ago
  A fingerprint sensor isn't possible, appreciated, but what about a U2F activation button? It could even just be a wireless pass-through for USB to allow your yubikey to work for example (I'm certain this can be done on Linux but unsure about other oses)
  - satvikpendem 2mo ago
    https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch spoofs as a card reader but won't work with Apple Pay and the like.
  - locknitpicker 2mo ago
    > It could even just be a wireless pass-through for USB to allow your yubikey to work for example Everyone would be better served with a generic USB hub in the keyboard, not shipping a security key with the keyboard.
    - crumpled 2mo ago
      My favorite keyboard for years was the Dell SK-8135. It had media buttons without messing with your function keys, a volume knob, and two USB ports! For a long time I would argue (as an IT support person who would have to support your wireless keyboard problems) that having a wireless keyboard was wasteful and unnecessary if you never used it more than 3 feet from your computer anyway.
- Andrew6rant 2mo ago
recensorium 2mo ago
This looks awesome! The thing I'd want to know is how much of the configuration lives on firmware vs. in the macOS app? If the app is a thin config editor and the mappings remain on-device, that's very different than if the dial and haptics stop working when a future macOS release breaks the app. Also, is there any commitment on firmware being flashable/open if the company someday isn't around?
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  Everything lives on the keyboard itself. The app just configures files on the device, basically. The keyboard also works without the app of course. This approach has the added benefit of making your configuration portable. For example if you remap your dial, and move to a different computer, your remapped dial will persist. There are a couple of small quality-of-life features that do require the app: for example if you want haptic feedback when you receive a notification. This is because the keyboard has no idea what is happening on your OS, and requires some middleware. But all the core functionality requires no app at all. To answer your second question, the firmware for Altar II will be open-sourced, as the firmware for our Altar I keyboard is. You can see the Altar I firmware source code here: https://github.com/electronicmaterialsoffice/firmware-altar-i https://github.com/electronicmaterialsoffice/firmware-altar-... Both Altar I and Altar II firmware are based on the open-source ZMK (https://zmk.dev https://zmk.dev). We try to contribute back to ZMK whenever we can because we have benefitted so much from it. Two members of our team are also long-standing ZMK contributors.
  - computerfriend 2mo ago
    Will the app also be free/open-source?
gilthelander 2mo ago
I don't understand the overwhelming praise. This product is just bizarre. Who is this for? What's with the giant numbers and tiny symbols? I know where the numbers are from muscle memory. I don't have the symbols memorized. Haptic feedback when you use the command key? Why? No number pad or page up/page dn, which would be something useful. This is like The Homer of keyboards. Does it play La Cucaracha out of the speaker if you push the knob four times? You clearly have the technical capabilities but the product requirements are bonkers.
- buf 2mo ago
  It's made for keyboard enthusiasts. Give it a shot. Maybe you'll be one of them.
- kccqzy 2mo ago
  Part of the reason for the overwhelming praise is because this is a “Show HN” thread[0]. People liked the amount of effort put in. Keyboards are highly personal anyways, so I wouldn’t be surprised that an average person would disagree with a few design decisions here. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html
- phoghed 2mo ago
  > who is this for? Me and my preorder
- platevoltage 2mo ago
  There aren't many Mac layout mechanical keyboards out there. This is an addition to the very few choices out there. I don't know why you feel the need to shit on it.
Tsiklon 2mo ago
I am a big fan of the original Altar. I like that you’ve been trying new things with that design like the novel keycap profile. The switches look like cherry ultra low profile switches. I’ve not tried these out, how do they feel compared to the linear kailh choc v1’s you used before.
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  Glad you like Altar I! They feel quite different to the Chocs, unsurprisingly. Although the required actuation force is close to the Choc Reds (40gf on our switch vs 50gf on the Choc Reds), because it's spread over such a small vertical travel it feels much "snappier". There is also very little pre-travel. It's kind of like a much sharper/tactile feeling chiclet switch with more vertical travel, if that makes sense.
Hugsbox 2mo ago
Unfortunately, no numpad is definitely a dealbreaker. Looks like a really cool product, but the numpad is a _must_ for any keyboard you want to do real work on, at least in my opinion.
- phoghed 2mo ago
  Maybe if excel is your main software used I could see that, can’t remember the last time I typed enough numbers to make it worth it though.
  - Hugsbox 2mo ago
    I don't like playing Nethack without it :( But yeah, I guess that's fair, not everybody's workload is going to involve inputting incident numbers, and order numbers, and asset numbers, etc etc etc all the time... even IP addresses, I just find it so much more comfortable with the numpad, whereas I find I have a tough time touch-typing on the number row.
whycombinetor 2mo ago
Out of curiosity, what exactly is a "fully mechanical scissor switch"? And is this the first such switch on the market? If I search for other such products I can only find "metal scissor switch over rubber dome" style.
xingped 2mo ago
Love the design and have also wanted a super low profile mechanical keyboard like this! I have one question though - what is the travel or activation distance of the keys? The one thing I actually like about the magic keyboard or Microsoft's designer keyboard is that the "click" is immediate and the entirety travel distance of the key is the activation bump. I dislike any amount of the "extra" travel distance (I'm not sure if I'm using the right words/description, but I hope you get what I mean) of regular mechanical switches and is the main thing that turns me off from them. Oh also, is it possible to get a Windows version or switch the keys around to accommodate Windows as well?
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  The travel distance on the Altar II switches is 1.8mm, so about 0.8mm more than on a MacBook keyboard. Similar to those keyboards, there is very little pre-travel on Altar II keys. With regard to Windows keys that is a possibility. We shipped our previous keyboard, Altar I, with both Mac and Windows markings on the keys.
  - xingped 2mo ago
    It looks like the travel distance on the Microsoft Designer Keyboard is 1.35mm, so not far off. How long are preorders/is the preorder discount available? I may seriously consider this.
    - aemerson_ 2mo ago
      Reservations are open until the Kickstarter launches on November 10th 2026.
- glitchc 2mo ago
  What you are referring to is called the pre-travel distance. There are mechanical key options with very short pre-travel, such as the Cherry MX and Kailh Silver switches. They're mainly used for gaming. https://keychron.ca/blogs/news/kailh-mechanical-switch-guide https://keychron.ca/blogs/news/kailh-mechanical-switch-guide
xiconfjs 2mo ago
What is the weight?
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  The final weight has not been determined yet as we are trying out different materials, internal designs and components. But the final weight will be 300g-400g or so.
tempodox 2mo ago
OK, I want it, but for Linux.
rc5150 2mo ago
there is nothing more satisfying than the thickness of the device being the same thickness of the charge cable terminal. This looks dope, looking forward to ordering in the future.
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  Fitting the USB-C port into it was actually a real challenge. We also have custom made USB-C housing because all the off the shelf ones were thicker than the keyboard!
arikrahman 2mo ago
With this was more in line with corne style split keyboards and really made for programmers like enthium.
isoprophlex 2mo ago
Rarely have I wanted to spend money on a peripheral as readily as on this keyboard. It looks like it's perfection.
znnajdla 2mo ago
An indie dev beating Apple at its own game is some feat. This inspires me. Would purchase in a heartbeat.
- xp84 2mo ago
  Right? When Apple expects $149 minimum for their extremely mediocre membrane keyboard, and its only feature is the one they cheat to keep exclusive, it's embarrassing how much better a tiny team can do.
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  Thank you so much. It means a lot to hear that. We're a very small team (1 full time, 3 part time) so going up against a company worth five trillion dollars is quite daunting!
cosmic_cheese 2mo ago
Looks great, but at this point I’m too used to HHKB layout on custom MX/topre boards to go back to full time typical 65%/75% layouts. Standard Delete/Backspace position in particular is almost grating now. Totally understand if that’s too niche of a market to serve, though. The switches look a lot like the new ultra low profile Cherry switches that Alienware was putting on their laptops a few years ago, is that what they are?
swiftcoder 2mo ago
Congrats on the industrial design, that is one of the nicest looking keyboards I've seen in a hot minute.
jonasmst 2mo ago
I love it when people obsessively iterate over something seemingly trivial until it's exactly what they want. This looks amazing, congrats on the launch. I love mechanical keys, but I keep coming back to the Magic keyboard because mechanical keyboards are so clunky. I would order this in a heartbeat if it was available with a nordic layout
- TacticalCoder 2mo ago
  > ... but I keep coming back to the Magic keyboard because mechanical keyboards are so clunky For a laptop or for a desktop? For a desktop the keyboard sits its entire life on the... desk? And a laptop happens to have its own keyboard. The only people I know who use an external keyboard with a laptop do it precisely because they want a particular mechanical switch / keyboard layout. Are there people taking their Magic keyboard with them in their backpack or car or whatever just to hook it to a laptop? I don't think many do that. So you find a keyboard on a desk looks clunky? Do you need a "not clunky" keyboard to take pictures you post on Instagram? I've got a 60% mechanical keyboard on my desk: its footprint is smaller than some Magic keyboard versions. And, well, vertically there's room on my desk.
  - jonasmst 2mo ago
    Clunky might have been the wrong word for it. Chunky? They're almost always too tall for my liking. I rest my palms on the desk while I type, I don't get how people do that with 20mm tall keyboards without straining their wrists. And I don't think people use mechanical keyboards for the switches themselves, but for the tactile typing experience the switches provide. Hence the appeal of this design: Mechanical, yet slim.
philistine 2mo ago
Very cool looking, but there is an ocean of mechanical keyboards already available with the US keyboard layout. I would explore making ISO international versions. That market is underserved. Because I wanted a mechanical keyboard with a CAN/CSA Z243.200-92 layout with Mac modifiers, I had to design my own layout in SVG for a Max Keyboards custom job. Keep in mind, I did not want to design my own, but I had to!
- LeBit 2mo ago
  Tu connais Qwerty Lafayette? https://qwerty-lafayette.org/ https://qwerty-lafayette.org/
  - philistine 2mo ago
    Je suis gaucher, et j'ai fait le choix idiot quand j'étais jeune de mettre ma souris à gauche. C'est un choix très étrange, mais ça fait en sorte que je n'ai jamais eu à me troubler des touches supplémentaires à droite. Sont juste là, accessible, et pas dans mon chemin. Mon clavier est de pleine taille sans enjeu ergonomique pour moi.
    - LeBit 2mo ago
      J’utilise également une trackball à gauche de mon clavier à cause de douleurs à mon épaule droite. L’avantage de Lafayette est que toutes les touches sont dans les deux blocs 3x5 du clavier. C’est plus ergonomique, la gestion des accents est beaucoup plus logique et confortable et le layer des symboles est clairement fait pour faciliter les déplacements vi. C’est le meilleur layout Qwerty pour développeurs francophones.
theodric 2mo ago
Sent to my rich friend. He wants 3 in white!
addaon 2mo ago
Order placed. I respect that you're doing a single variant up front, and I understand the business challenges and risks of going wide on a niche product like this... but as a single datapoint, I'll pay double for an ortholinear with similar features and style.
LeBit 2mo ago
It is time to introduce split space bars in every new keyboard designs. The single wide space bar is an even worse offender than row staggered or qwerty.
altairprime 2mo ago
Hey, hooray! I still have my switch-modded Altar I but it ended up being too tall for me, so this is a surprisingly great discovery for my morning. Looking forward to trying a new keyboard :D
threecheese 2mo ago
Reserved! I would have paid the 249 today btw :) she looks beautiful.
archagon 2mo ago
Great work! Have you, or do you intend to, write about the process of bringing this to fruition? Would love to learn more about how a polished bit of hardware like this is designed.
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  I have not written about the process but it is a great idea, I'd love to do that. An audio format might also be interesting.
nocebolauncher 2mo ago
[dead]
swingboy 2mo ago
Great looking keyboard but why are the numbers on the number keys so large? They stick out like a sore thumb.
- LoganDark 2mo ago
  Agreed, I love a lot of the design but the unnecessary "quirkiness" in aspects like this are a bit of a turn-off.
  - StilesCrisis 2mo ago
    Same. Feels like the project takes plenty of risks in other ways and should have played it safe with aesthetic design.
- mft_ 2mo ago
  It reminds me a little of the large number keys (directly underneath the screen) on the original OP-1: https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1/original https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1/original
- d3Xt3r 2mo ago
  Agreed, the legends a huge turn-off. Would've bought this keyboard if it weren't for that. Oh and the dial sticks out a bit too much too, would've preferred if it were a flat dial that sat flush with the rest of the keys.
  - crote 2mo ago
    It supports multiple dials, including some flatter ones. It even lets you 3D print your own dial.
harrygeez 2mo ago
I love this! Though I don't own a Mac anymore. I expect this to work as a standard keyboard in Linux? Which features are mac-only?
deepsun 2mo ago
Well, for programming it's not convenient -- no Insert/Pageup/Screenshot buttons.
- red_hare 2mo ago
  15 years of mouse-free professional programming and never in my life have I touched these.
  - naikrovek 2mo ago
    30 years of professional programming and I touch "Home", "End", "PgUp", "PgDn", "Ins", and "Del" every single day.
    - f311a 2mo ago
      You can do this using fn button, without moving your hand every time you need to press them. It's very convenient, when your hand don't move at all and can reach every button.
      - naikrovek 2mo ago
        you can do it using any button you like. lots of keyboards are entirely remappable. i don't understand how/why one saying they never touch these buttons is some kind of flex, like it's somehow superior to avoid using some keys or something.
      - chicagobuss 2mo ago
        It's also very convenient to not have to remember a bunch of extra combos or perform the gymnastics to press them, especially if you need other modifiers too like shift+pgup, shift+ctrl+pageup, etc
        deleted 2mo ago
        [deleted]
      - 2mo ago
rxyz 2mo ago
What a beautiful device. Few questions: Will it be okay for someone who switches between devices and OSes often? Can I have layers that I can swap between like on a VIA board? What is the click latency? Is USB just for charging or can I use it without BT?
- ebastler 2mo ago
  The board runs ZMK, which handles layers quite similarly to QMK/VIA. Whether you can bind dedicated layers to output profiles for automated switching in ZMK I do not know, but toggling between layers manually via some shortcut when you switch between devices works for sure. There is a video by one of the ZMK team members where he tested ZMK latency (wired and wireless) against other options on the market - it is, however, fairly dated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWL4nU-vtWs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWL4nU-vtWs The USB port allows for wired operation while charging. The fact that some products refuse to do this still bothers me (cough MX Master 3).
  - aemerson_ 2mo ago
    (For reference @ebastler designed the PCB for Altar II, and did an amazing job)
  - rxyz 2mo ago
    Yeah Logitech MX Keys was the reason I asked. Without their $20 dongle it’s not a full product that can be connected to any pc via usb. Anyway, Thanks for the answers. Shortcuts would be enough for me. I was eyeing a lofree board but this is more interesting
aselimov3 2mo ago
This is so sick. I'm almost convincing myself to get it but I feel like I would really miss my 36% keyboard with multiple layers too much. Still tho...
gaigalas 2mo ago
I was really excited about Altar I, but no shipping to Brazil, so I gave up on it. Nice to see the idea continues (consider worldwide shipping would be my only feedback on the idea, I guess). I now own a Logitech MX Keys S and I'm quite happy with it.
ndiddy 2mo ago
The thing I find most attractive about mechanical keyboards is that they send a keypress when a key is only partially pressed down. When combined with the tactile bump and audible click created by actuating the key, this means that typing on a mechanical keyboard is much less fatiguing than using a rubber dome or laptop keyboard because you're only pushing the key down partially until you feel the bump and hear the click rather than slamming your finger into the bottom of the keyboard. Does your keyboard still have this feature even with the slim profile?
- lsaferite 2mo ago
  You should check into hall effect mechanical keyboards. They can have a floating actuation point for retrigger that is based on detecting press, partial release, press. It's really pretty cool.
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  I believe you are referring to the "pre-travel" of the key and yes, Altar II has a very small amount of pre-travel actually. This is partially due to it having such a small vertical travel.
  - ndiddy 2mo ago
    Nice, thanks for confirming that. In practice, can you type on the keyboard without bottoming out the keys, or is it more like a laptop keyboard?
ifjeicjwidj 2mo ago
This is absolutely fantastic, but those gigantic numbers are just bizarre and not at all good to look at. They feel completely out of place there, like you enlarged them by mistake. Not good.
naikrovek 2mo ago
Maybe a bit (a lot) overboard with the marketing snazz on this page. it's a keyboard It's not a miracle. If you're going to have all this 3D imagery, put a glTF model viewer on the page, and let me look at it. though to be told, I definitely want one. low profile keyboards are indeed my jam. I don't know why the hell keyboards need to have batteries though. No one needs a wireless keyboard. Wires are not that much of a pain in the ass. Coiled, self-retracting keyboard cables are a thing. Keyboards do not need to be wireless. Wires are fine, I promise! Wireless mouse? Sure. Wires make the mouse move when you don't want it to move. Wireless credential entry device? Those should remain wired, I think.
Magicrafter13 2mo ago
I can't go back to a staggered typewriter layout, ergonomic columnar is where it's at. I'm curious what the purpose of haptic feedback on an already mechanical keyboard is? Cool that you've been able to turn this into a livable business though.
- LoganDark 2mo ago
  It's feedback for the magnetically-coupled dial, and optionally an accessory to notifications.
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  Good question on the haptics. There's no feedback when press most of the keys. But there is some feedback when you do things like turn the dial, or complete a shortcut (e.g. cmd + c). This is all configurable in the companion app as well.
dmhmr 2mo ago
Love what you did, the dedication for 2 years to launch this is awesome. Apple keyboards are near-horrific IMO so you are filling an important niche for sure. I know it is a silly complaint in the mech KB space but the price compared to something like a Keychron K3 makes this a no-go for my preferences. The K3 is very close to what I'd consider suitable as a daily driver at work. Thank you for including audio of the typing!!!! Again this is my preference, the Alter II is not "thocky" enough for what I like to hear. Clacky and Clicky keyboards are just far too distracting or painful to listen to for extended periods. Also interesting to see a speaker built-in. I'd have cut it for cost and space.
- energy123 2mo ago
  > Apple keyboards are near-horrific IMO I visited a mechanical keyboard shop, tried about 20 of them including low profile variants, then visited an Apple shop. Both shops allowed me to sit down and measure my typing speeds on a computer over many trials. The apple magic keyboard, full-size, gives me about 10-20% faster typing speeds. Over the previous three years I had only used mechanical keyboards. I also found it very aesthetically pleasing to type on, rivalled only by the Logitech pebble in terms of subjective feel. There's something about feeling the whole aluminium frame and plastic membrane flex when I hit a key hard that I find pleasing in a way that isn't matched by many other keyboards. I bought one, and it's the only piece of apple hardware I own. My 3 mechanical keyboards are collecting dust.
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  Thank you, and what you say is completely fair. The Keychron K3 is an excellent keyboard and certainly gets the job done for many people. I would actually argue Altar II is excellent value at $249, especially when you consider the materials, special components, and scale we are at. Altar II is quite a quiet keyboard, and there is a special sandwich of materials specifically designed to make it as quiet as possible. The built-in speaker is interesting. Really it's just there because it's fun, and its nice to get the odd bleep or chime when your keyboard connects or begins charging.
runjake 2mo ago
LOVE the industrial design. HATE the font, especially on the number keys. But, great job overall!
- copperx 2mo ago
  The keyboard seems to be missing important symbols, such as - and =, so it's likely not the final design.
  - throwaway89201 2mo ago
    Those characters are present. The design of the number row is just so 'out there' that you missed them.
  - canada_dry 2mo ago
    Because it's backlit I'm guessing changing the eclectic number row design isn't an option that can be easily changed (for this version anyway).
    - crote 2mo ago
      The usual way of doing backlight is by having the LED underneath the switch and letting the switch transmit the light upwards. Many switches have special cutout positions for this, so the lighting for all the square keys is identical. The only issue is that the keycap itself needs to be partially translucent and partially opaque, so rather than laser-etching or printing a legend they need to be "double-shot"[0], which means a two-phase injection molding process. This makes altering of the keycaps quite expensive as you need a new set of molds - which is especially bad if you were using one mold to produce an entire set of keycaps at once. It's definitely doable to ship it with two different number rows, but it's the kind of thing you really want to know at the very start. [0]: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Double-shot_moulding https://deskthority.net/wiki/Double-shot_moulding
- waffletower 2mo ago
  I actually like the number font, the presence, but the loss of visibility for the shifted symbols is a huge loss. I know where the numbers are -- I admittedly need more reminding for the symbols as I never explicitly practiced them. The muscle memory for them isn't quite as strong and in low light I need to see them.
nmca 2mo ago
It would be glorious if there was a split version!
railgunmerlin 2mo ago
given kickstarter is november, when do you expect to ship?
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  Early summer 2027 is the target.
tejohnso 2mo ago
For Apple folks I guess, but would be nice to see a pointing stick. Trackpoint keyboards are becoming difficult to find and a suitable replacement would be an instant buy.
Stitch4223 2mo ago
Sold me one, even though it doesn’t have Touch ID. It can be forgiven given the rest. The mdial is amazing. The Nixie tube numbers are fun. The sleekness. And this website with all demo’s is really well made. Also the “about” site is cool. You were not underpromising when stating Apple didn’t spend enough energy here. This is a leap. And I fully trust you’ll deliver. If anything, why not work at Apple after this adventure and get these things (or another next level keyboard) out at massive scale?
numpad0 2mo ago
I don't even know if this is going to be a big or a tiny ask, and I don't know if I'm going to end up with this beautiful product at all, but just in case it's going to be trivial to do so, could you add an option or extra keycaps to have Caps Lock key physically engraved as "Control"? IIUC the ctrl-caps swap itself isn't so rare, but actual keycaps engraved as such seem to be relatively rare. It's apparently a UNIX thing, and old Apple, NeXT, some of DEC, Sun, HP UNIX, Sony NEWS, even IBM XT, many of modern Mac JIS, etc. seem to/did/do have the legends for that key as "Control", "CTRL", or "Ctrl". I think that adds even more to the cool factor.
- waffletower 2mo ago
  Caps Lock is such a tragic throwback. Even after decades of ridicule "Caps lock is cruise control for cool" keyboard designers don't get that we don't want it.
  - vincent-manis 2mo ago
    I for one really appreciate Caps Lock. I always remap it as Compose.
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  That is a very interesting detail, I never knew that!
waffletower 2mo ago
Cramming the fn key into the sacred ctrl-alt-cmd triumvirate is disagreeable. Would require learning and remapping. I prefer fn to be distant as I have chorded for decades with the said trio.
alt227 2mo ago
Love the keyboard, great job! the website however is a terrible experience. There is so much movement whilst scrolling that it triggers my motion sickness.
hamburglar 2mo ago
This looks incredible but I’m skeptical you can actually produce it for $250 and maintain the level of quality and features that you claim. And it appears you’re offering $100 off of that (or is that the post discount price? It’s hard to tell). I guess I will wait and see.
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  We have spent a lot of time and effort finding manufacturing partners and ensuring they can produce Altar II at the scale and quality we require. In fact we have delayed announcing Altar II for a long time because we wanted to be absolutely certain it was manufacturable and shippable at our price points. Do also bear in mind the final retail price is $349. the $249 price is for early pre-orders only.
  - bsoles 2mo ago
    I am sure there are afficionados of these things, but $349 for a keyboard is crazy. I am not sure what you get in return for such a price..
    - crote 2mo ago
      It's a luxury product. People spend tens of thousands on a watch, what's a few hundred for a keyboard? In this hobby people are more than happy to pay that much for a second-hand semi-mass-produced TKL, provided it has the right switches and keycaps!
    - dmd 2mo ago
      I know probably 10+ people who have paid more than $500 for a mouse.
  - Tepix 2mo ago
    That‘s the same price as a Keyboardio Model 100 which is split, wooden and has sculpted RGB backlit keys. Whoah. That said, big fan of that volume button!
- crote 2mo ago
allenc 2mo ago
I've built about 10 mechanical keyboards so far, including a bunch of split ergo ones and low profile variants too. From that, I know the layout matters a lot, as well as the switches themselves; the programability and other features to me are nice but ultimately can be worked around. I'm curious about the switches you're using. On the tech specs it says: "Dual steel arm scissor switch w/ retention spring, 40gf actuation force" Are they custom switches then? If so, are they most similar to current Magic Keyboard switch feel, or something Choc or MX low profile, or their own thing altogether?
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  The switches feel like a M-Series MacBook with a decent amount more travel and more "snappy", tactile feeling. They feel quite different to, for example, Choc switches (which we used on our previous keyboard).
  - allenc 2mo ago
    That's really interesting. Hmm... it's too bad that there's no easy way to try out the keyboard and its unique switches before committing. But it's intriguing nonetheless. Can you share how long you're looking to run the preorder/early bird special?
- crote 2mo ago
  They are almost certainly the Cherry MX Ultra Low Profile[0], or else an almost 1:1 clone of them. Identical design, identical height and actuation distance. The actuation force is a bit off, but those numbers are more of a suggestion anyways. [0]: https://www.cherry.de/en-us/product/mx-ulp-tactile https://www.cherry.de/en-us/product/mx-ulp-tactile
StilesCrisis 2mo ago
Is there any way to prop it up so it doesn't lay flat against the table? I have round foam adhesive dots stuck to the bottom of my current Apple keyboards. It works, but it's an obvious deficiency in the design. Every other keyboard on the market has tilt.
swah 2mo ago
At this point - make it a tool for agentic work. Leds that tell you that some agent is idle/working and needs attention. Clickable = open the right terminal etc. And dictation button, some cool PTS kind :)
- prewett 2mo ago
  Maybe even something like a small LCD display, and it could be touch sensitive so you could switch directly to an agent? Like ... the Touch Bar? :) (I always liked the idea of the Touch Bar, but in practice I only used it to change the volume. I still miss that, though. Now I have to Opt-Shift-Volume to try to get the right volume, which is always halfway between the options somehow.)
hollow-moe 2mo ago
Awesome, seeing it's so thin have you planned for the possible battery ballooning ? I guess it is hidden on the left side under the logo ?
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  The battery is in the logo side, correct. In fact most of that entire area is taken up by the battery! We did expand vertically that area slightly as you can see, to allow for a slightly thicker batter.
jeffgreco 2mo ago
The design is on point and the numbers look great. I want one.
buildinext 2mo ago
reserved...looking forward to giving this a ride tks for sharing
thatxliner 2mo ago
I feel like this is similar to what Work Louder makes? Am I tripping?
Insanity 2mo ago
I would love this in a 60% keyboard, seems great for travel and work. Any plans to support different form factors in the future?
iammrpayments 2mo ago
Looks a lot like mistel airone: https://mistelkeyboard.com/products/9a36520f591f4f8b8e1253abf6885b51 https://mistelkeyboard.com/products/9a36520f591f4f8b8e1253ab... I used to use it everyday but the low profile switches sometimes get stuck and it’s also a little bit tiring to type. I currently use nuphyair 60 HE, and I find the low sensitivity keys don’t tire my fingers.
platevoltage 2mo ago
This is very cool and it looks like a lot of effort went into it. Personally, I like the high profile clunky mechanical keyboard experience, so it's probably not for me, but I really hope this does well. I also really hate Apples decision to put the FN key in the bottom left corner, but I understand following their layout. I always swap the ctrl and fn keys on my Apple devices, so I assume you could do the same thing here.
hingler36 2mo ago
The keyboard looks great in general, but jumping into switch design is a huge undertaking. If you're willing to share: how many presses are these rated for? What is the yield looking like for manufacturing these?
dramm 2mo ago
Looks very interesting, love to see the innovation/effort to go beyond the usual. What would be great for me is a version with Mac/vt-100 style number pad. Even mechanical keyboards that claim to be Mac focused largely have PC number pad layouts, and that is a pain with some software like Pro Tools keyboard shortcuts, and some legacy DEC terminal emulation needs.
ValentineC 2mo ago
Is the battery replaceable? Or is the keyboard going to be tethered-only when the lithium battery degrades after 5-10 years?
- crote 2mo ago
  From the renders it looks like the housing can be screwed open and the battery seems to be connected via pogo pins, so it should be user-replaceable. The biggest question is going to be: can you still source a replacement one 10 years from now?
WesolyKubeczek 2mo ago
Would be ever so awesome if the keyboard had feet. As far as ergonomics go, I don't care too much about split layouts and similar nonsense, but my wrists start to hurt really fast when the keyboard is lying flat on the desk. I've bought adhesive folding feet for my laptops. They are awesome. I used a pair for my B104 (a reproduction of IBM beam spring switches in a modern keyboard). I still wish I didn't have to glue any contraptions to devices I type on.
markbao 2mo ago
This is phenomenal. I know everyone is asking for their pet feature in this thread, but I would really like to see this in split keyboard format. They are much more comfortable to use since they put your wrist in a more natural position. And there are hardly any good split mechanical wireless keyboards – and certainly none this thin. Great work on this and congratulations on the launch!
nxc18 2mo ago
I agree that some aspects of the design are disagreeable, but it was an instant buy for me anyway. I loved the idea of mechanical keyboards and tactile feel; etc etc. But I type faster on Magic Keyboard. Being able to have both is potentially a dream come true. Even if it falls short, I want to financially reward the effort. But I am also very interested in the haptics - I like the haptics on Magic Trackpad and would like to see that part of the system advance further. For context, since it is such an underused feature, on Magic Trackpad allows haptic feedback for non-force touch actions; key examples are snapping in pages/keynote and the snap-to-north on two finger rotate in maps. There is a bug where this only works for internal trackpads on macOS Tahoe. I can’t wait to try this keyboard.
m463 2mo ago
I hate what apple did with the keyboard. They set a bad example with flat keys. They used to have slightly sculpted keys, where your fingers could find the keys and self-center, leading to accurate typing. But typical apple - thin is the target - and everyone follows
zahirbmirza 2mo ago
Amazing. Magic Mouse Next please : ) Again, this is just amazing.
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  Don't tempt me with a good time. I would love to tackle a mouse — I have a lot of ideas!
geod_of_ix 2mo ago
Impressive. I have a thing for low profile keyboards
litoE 2mo ago
In the 1980s a company called Quotron developed a contactless keyboard. The main circuit board contained a bunch of LEDs and some sort of photo diodes or photo cells, all arranged in a grid. The keys were simply plungers that when pressed down interrupted the light beams shining into some of the receivers. The firmware then decided which key had been pressed and generated the appropriate code. The keyboard itself was huge. Us software people used to joke that, in a pinch, it could be used as a surfboard. One of the advantages was that you could pour a cup of coffee into the keyboard and it would just keep working.
- ebastler 2mo ago
  Optical keyboards are still around (although rare) and usually use some variation of Cherry MC style switches without contact pins. Newer tech also consists of magnetic designs (hall effect, tunnelmagnetoresistance or inductive). These all allow for analog input (variable user-settable actuation points for example) which makes them popular with the gaming crowd. I'm developing such a PCB for a different project at the moment. As far as I'm aware none of these are waterproof, however, as they all have exposed PCBs inside the case. I guess one could just conformally coat the circuit board, but I haven't seen that done yet for a commercial keyboard.
RigelKentaurus 2mo ago
Hi, I am not a user of mechanical keyboards, but I did want to say nice work on the website. The fonts, the colors, the layout -- I loved it all! Good luck, hope you sell a lot of keyboards.
calculated 2mo ago
Start shipping to Bulgaria please. I’ll buy it right away once you do. Let me know if I can somehow help on my end with that. Speechless on what you’ve made.
jarek83 2mo ago
Any chance to make it able to switch between machines?
hereme888 2mo ago
Beautiful work, both hardware and website.
hommelix 2mo ago
Great look! Do you plan ISO layout as well (German, French, etc)?
doublerebel 2mo ago
I am a very happy customer of the Altar I. The first one worked so well I picked up two more on the secondary market. Have had no issues. Easy to customize the effective layout as advertised. Firmware was open-sourced as promised. Delivery schedule was normal or better as Kickstarters/prefunding goes. I’m not sure I am the customer for the II, I bought the I as a good low-profile alternative to the Apple keyboards —- but it looks like a great product.
nunez 2mo ago
Hell yeah; so glad this exists. I love the Magic Keyboard but hate the lack of clack. Can't wait til this drops; thank you for making it!!!
prodigycorp 2mo ago
This is outstanding work. I hope you do well with this.
tomburgs 2mo ago
It looks super nice. I really like the name and the design, but as others have said the numbers seem to be a bit of a turn off. It really seems to throw off the visual balance and almost seems like there's a medical reason for it, like it's for people struggling with dyscalculia or something. Another small thing is that I would love if it was possible to swap the "caps" key for a different labeled one (or unlabeled), since it appears that there already is a caps key on the right-hand side anyways. I personally always bind control key to the caps key (stems from vim/hhkb) and it'd be nice if it was able to configure the keyboard to reflect that.
tomburgs 2mo ago
It appears that the audio section where you can preview the different sounds (power on, charging, low battery) are not working for me. It throws a `Uncaught (in promise) NotSupportedError: The element has no supported sources.` on `audio.play();` at the very end of main.js.
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  Thank you for flagging this, it is now fixed. It was an issue with Firefox and the codec we use for the audio samples. I just changed the codec for the audio to something that works on all browsers.
healthycoder 2mo ago
The keyboard looks fantastic, but the numbers are so weird
anilakar 2mo ago
No ISO? No numpad? Also we're doing preorders for preorders now?
kanemarais 2mo ago
Banging design - perhaps one or two things I’d tone down a bit (numbers and dial). But overall nice work. Must have been fun to engineer.
terrycody 2mo ago
Please give us a way to buy this in China.

306 points by aemerson_ 2mo ago

macintacos 2mo ago

An option to get the board without such loud number keys would be an instant buy from me honestly.

johng 2mo ago

Wow, beautiful. Both the site and the keyboard. I put a deposit down. Edit: in reply to the person above because I keep getting a "You're posting too fast. Please slow down. Thanks." error because I've made 2 posts in this thread apparently... Anyway, it would be neat if in the future the M-Dial slot could be used for a fingerprint reader or something else. Swappable items in that slot.

aemerson_ 2mo ago
Thank you so much! Really appreciate it. Glad you like the website too, I put a lot of effort into it. If you have any questions I'd be very happy to answer them.
- johng 2mo ago
  Honestly the price seems quite low for what you get (at $249) and what looks like might be a small batch production. I hope you can make a profit after everything is said and done at that price!
  - aemerson_ 2mo ago
    This price is only for people who reserve before we launch on Kickstarter. I agree it is good value but also I should point out the retail price will be $349 for anyone buying after we fulfil all the pre-orders. Rest assured we are building a sustainable business that will be around for the long haul.

charrondev 2mo ago

I’m assuming it’s not possible for it to include a fingerprint sensor? As much as I’d like a mechanical keyboard for my Mac that’s always the part that gets me. I end up using the one my Magic Keyboard 20+ times per workday. Otherwise it looks beautiful.

ls-a 2mo ago
Well there is this https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch
- tpstevens 2mo ago
  And this as well, if you have a Magic Keyboard around: https://www.printables.com/model/320000-standalone-touch-id-module-for-mac https://www.printables.com/model/320000-standalone-touch-id-...
cafebeen 2mo ago
Yes, agreed. Beautiful keyboard, but when I heard "magic" I hoped to find a touch ID. That sensor so useful that even though I use a mechanical keyboard, I keep an apple magic keyboard off to the side of my desk just for the touch ID sensor. What I'd love to have is a standalone touch ID sensor that I could attach anywhere -- mechanical keyboard, side of the monitor, under my desk, etc. I guess this is bottlenecked by Apple's IP on the device, so I've considered just hacking one together by deconstructing and extracting an Apple keyboard...
- xp84 2mo ago
  Some people I know just velcro a Magic Keyboard to the bottom of their desktop for this reason. So frustrating that Apple won't sell just a button even at any price. Gotta buy their terrible keyboard for $150 to get that. eyeroll
- dbalatero 2mo ago
  I've built a few boxes: https://www.printables.com/model/355924-clickable-touch-id-box-tkl-board-wired https://www.printables.com/model/355924-clickable-touch-id-b... https://gist.github.com/KhaosT/1406a6b6bea38f59e059c2afcb39d545 https://gist.github.com/KhaosT/1406a6b6bea38f59e059c2afcb39d... You have to carefully tear down and extract the touch id sensor, and then remount it in a box. I went the battery route so it could stay wireless. The tradeoff is the box is bigger.

GZGavinZhao 2mo ago

Opened the site, thought it was teenage engineering... Which is a compliment to me, because I always love their designs! Unfortunately as a HHKB user I'm not a fan of low profile keyboards otherwise I would've bought this.

aemerson_ 2mo ago
I appreciate the TE comparison! I am very inspired by them. Maybe in the future we can make a thicker keyboard for you.
waffletower 2mo ago
It couldn't have been Teenage Engineering: the keyboard was priced less than $999

ls-a 2mo ago

Looks nice. However, 2 years and you still squished the arrow keys into the rest of the keyboard. Unacceptable "design" mate. You need to talk with your customers.

sssilver 2mo ago

This looks wonderful. I wish it had the option to be ordered with blank keys.

pelagicAustral 2mo ago

Looks amazing. Would've been crazy good to include a few OLED keys a la Optimus Maximus [0], which has forever been a dream, even with all the negative reviews. [0] https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/ https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/

n-barraclough 2mo ago

I love this. I type with one hand, & I find mechanical keyboards with lots of travel very difficult because of the speed I type at and the depth that you need to make the key activate. It's a shame about the lack of fingerprint sensor - I wonder if there's any projects out there where you could rescue one from a donor keyboard & just put that in a small profile case nearby?

wilsonnb3 2mo ago

What does it feel like to type on?

aemerson_ 2mo ago
It's kind of like a M-series Mac keyboard but with substantially more travel on the key (we have about 0.5mm more travel), and more of a more definitive sense of when the key is actuated. It's a much more tactile experience than the MacBook keyboards, but that is still the closest comparison.

K0nserv 2mo ago

Looks beautiful, congrats on the launch! I've been looking for a replacement for my Apple Magic keyboard. I would love to buy one, but ISO layout is a must for me, also would like blank or swappable keycaps.

bix6 2mo ago

Love it! Can you offer full color lighting instead of just red?

jbonatakis 2mo ago
I’d like to second this. Being able to change the color using the dial would be…satisfying.
aemerson_ 2mo ago
I'm afraid not. For two reasons: Firstly it makes no sense for a backlight to be anything but a warm colour at night because it strains your eyes exactly when they are most prone to it (at night, in the dark). And secondly because it allows us some modest power savings. The chemistry used in our red LEDs (AlGaInP) is more power efficient than that used in other colours. Being a very thin device, we have a small battery, and therefore need to save power wherever we can.

aus10d 2mo ago

dang, this seems really amazing

Scarbutt 2mo ago

This looks great. Never liked the idea of having to add wrist rests to all these tall bulky mechanical keyboards. Does it support the globe key without having to use karabiner?

aemerson_ 2mo ago
It does! We do some firmware trickery to make the globe key behave just like the Magic Keyboard. Can you tell me what exactly you use it for? I just want to make sure we have your use case covered.
- Scarbutt 2mo ago
  Mostly for these: https://imgur.com/a/c5ty1Ml https://imgur.com/a/c5ty1Ml
  - aemerson_ 2mo ago
    Ah very interesting. I will make sure these are included.

realo 2mo ago

Nice! The devil is in the details. Do you have a french version? ...

sam_lowry_ 2mo ago
Just turn it upside down /s

bicepjai 2mo ago

Looks beautiful and great presentation of your efforts. Hope it lives up to its expectations. All the best

aaroninsf 2mo ago

Lovely engineering; if you bring it to market(?) I suggest offering if not full customization a range of aesthetics. Black/red is a hard no for me. Something fitting with the existing aesthetic (let's call it "Scandanavian milled", subtle frosting, white text) or warmer ("natural", off-white, orange LEDs) etc etc. One other question: waterproof? I assume that's not possible. Would be a decision maker for me personally probably.

nicksergeant 2mo ago

My dream keyboard, if only it could split down the middle for ergonomics :(

ChaseRensberger 2mo ago
yea split + ortholinear would be peak
- jerlam 2mo ago
  Ergo users are never going to be happy. I'd complain about the lack of thumb keys, and then the flatness, and suddenly we're talking about a completely different keyboard.

wronex 2mo ago

Really cool! I’d love to try those switches. Can’t imagine using a non-split keyboard though. Great work regardless. Stunning.

j_aime 2mo ago

Wow I not expecting to see that! I love it!!! Good work!

n0t3ths81 2mo ago

[dead]

handfuloflight 2mo ago

Beautiful! Looking forward to the Kickstarter. But also, why is it completely flat?

richwater 2mo ago

These switches remind me of the butterfly switches on previous generations of Macbooks....not a great memory

aemerson_ 2mo ago
Yes the butterfly switches were pretty bad. Superficially ours are similar but there are a few key differences: - Ours has an actual mechanical switch (with a spring and contact leaf) that is pressed, the butterfly switches were a metal dome - Our switches have much more vertical travel (1.8mm) compared to the butterfly switches (~0.5mm). A big part of the issues with the butterfly switches was they had tiny tolerances, so specks of dust or dirt could jam them. Since our switches are so much larger, this is less of a problem - Butterfly switch arms were made from plastic, our arms are made from steel.
- richwater 2mo ago
  Thank you for the response. Good luck on your endeavor!

rckclmbr 2mo ago

Love the keyboard, looks solid. Out of curiosity, why did you make the numbers so big? It looks like an intentional design choice and I don’t know if I like it, but I’m wondering if there’s reasoning behind it that could change my mind

charlesrice 2mo ago
Yeah it seems like if they wanted to make it appeal to Apple people they would make it more consistent and subtle. It's all so clean and then the numbers look like they came off a special calculator for people with failing eyesight.

anentropic 2mo ago

Any plans for a model with numeric keypad too?

aemerson_ 2mo ago
Not at the moment. If we did a numpad I would probably do it as a separate device. Personally I don't like how the numpad sits between the edge of my keyboard and mouse. I'd prefer it to the left of my keyboard or to the right side of my mouse.
- anentropic 2mo ago
  All well and good, but a full size with right-handed numpad is baked into my muscle memory from decades...

splittydev 2mo ago

Looks great, but sadly no fingerprint sensor is a deal breaker for me. I know it's not actually possible, so not your fault, but it's not for me. I rely on that thing way too much.

toomuchtodo 2mo ago
If on Mac, consider TinyTouch as a potential biometric hardware supplement when a keyboard does not support: https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch (no affiliation, saw a thread on it here)
nerdjon 2mo ago
When I saw the announcement I was kinda hoping that they were taking a magic keyboard, tearing it apart and adding the extra hardware to make having this possible. But seems like that is not the case.

hack1312 2mo ago

The autoplaying videos make your website unusable on mobile.

Locketgoma 2mo ago

It. It is real thing? cool.

dimitrieh 2mo ago

Great concept! I need eu layout with the extra button next to the left shift. Why I would buy is essentially. Thin, premium typing experience, accessibility features. Don't need the fancy dials, stick out buttons, or a speaker. Dim it down, and it would be perfect

AshamedBadger56 2mo ago

Absolutely love the design, features, website, attention to detail, and just...taste. It's been quite a while since I mashed that reserve button so quickly haha. Hope it lives up to the design and looks!

mistersquid 2mo ago

The promo website is something to behold and by itself is sufficient reason to chuck a buck at the possibility of Altar II coming into existence. Thank you, good luck, and looking forward!

aemerson_ 2mo ago
Thank you so much! A genuinely silly amount of time went into the website. If you'll indulge me for a moment, because I never get to talk about this stuff: the corner radii of the cards on the site are actually "squircles" rather than perfect rounded corners. To me this is much more pleasing to the eye. The squircles are achieved by creating a PNG mask which is then 9-sliced and expanded to mask off the edge of the cards. Another mask is used for the stroke and laid on top of the first mask, to give the gradient border effect.
- allenc 2mo ago
  That is a silly amount of detail that in many ways is what Apple design is known for.
- internetter 2mo ago
  also see https://caniuse.com/?search=squircle https://caniuse.com/?search=squircle (though no gradient border)
dmhmr 2mo ago
It looks nice on mobile but I initially viewed it on desktop and found it unpleasant to use.

ethersteeds 2mo ago

This looks beautiful. While obviously a Mac keyboard, to what extent is it compatible with Linux? Will there be documentation of its features beyond a standard Bluetooth HID, such that users could potentially develop software that utilizes the speaker and haptic feedback mechanisms?

aemerson_ 2mo ago
It is fully compatible with Linux with respect to typing, volume control and so on. The firmware source code will be published publicly on Github in the future, as our other keyboard (Altar I) is: https://github.com/electronicmaterialsoffice/firmware-altar-i https://github.com/electronicmaterialsoffice/firmware-altar-.... Anyone is welcome to play around with it.

yassa9 2mo ago

I like the website more than the keyboard itself

hparadiz 2mo ago

Add a finger print sensor at some point. Lovely design.

pierrefermat1 2mo ago

For those in the comment section looking for a split alternative to this, there is this Kickstarter(be warned of the usual problems with Kickstarters): https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-simple-ergonomics-beautifully-done https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryanlpeterman/compose-s... or this that is in stock but doesn't exactly follow Apple's layout https://www.ozokeyboards.com/products/jiffy75-wireless-split-low-profile-mechanical-keyboard?variant=47387360788733 https://www.ozokeyboards.com/products/jiffy75-wireless-split...

edumucelli 2mo ago

Beautiful, would it work on Linux? Btw, the website is really heavy for my connection.

ary 2mo ago

To everyone who is about to pile on regarding the lack of a fingerprint sensor: you know it's not possible, we all know it's not possible, the creator of this project knows it's not possible. What are you adding to the conversation when you complain about it? So it's a dealbreaker for you, don't buy it. To @aemerson_: Congratulations on taking a risk. On first look this is great work. The attention to detail on both the keyboard and the website is really impressive.

gtsteve 2mo ago
A fingerprint sensor isn't possible, appreciated, but what about a U2F activation button? It could even just be a wireless pass-through for USB to allow your yubikey to work for example (I'm certain this can be done on Linux but unsure about other oses)
- satvikpendem 2mo ago
  https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch https://github.com/zimengxiong/tinytouch spoofs as a card reader but won't work with Apple Pay and the like.
- locknitpicker 2mo ago
  > It could even just be a wireless pass-through for USB to allow your yubikey to work for example Everyone would be better served with a generic USB hub in the keyboard, not shipping a security key with the keyboard.
  - crumpled 2mo ago
    My favorite keyboard for years was the Dell SK-8135. It had media buttons without messing with your function keys, a volume knob, and two USB ports! For a long time I would argue (as an IT support person who would have to support your wireless keyboard problems) that having a wireless keyboard was wasteful and unnecessary if you never used it more than 3 feet from your computer anyway.
Andrew6rant 2mo ago

recensorium 2mo ago

This looks awesome! The thing I'd want to know is how much of the configuration lives on firmware vs. in the macOS app? If the app is a thin config editor and the mappings remain on-device, that's very different than if the dial and haptics stop working when a future macOS release breaks the app. Also, is there any commitment on firmware being flashable/open if the company someday isn't around?

aemerson_ 2mo ago
Everything lives on the keyboard itself. The app just configures files on the device, basically. The keyboard also works without the app of course. This approach has the added benefit of making your configuration portable. For example if you remap your dial, and move to a different computer, your remapped dial will persist. There are a couple of small quality-of-life features that do require the app: for example if you want haptic feedback when you receive a notification. This is because the keyboard has no idea what is happening on your OS, and requires some middleware. But all the core functionality requires no app at all. To answer your second question, the firmware for Altar II will be open-sourced, as the firmware for our Altar I keyboard is. You can see the Altar I firmware source code here: https://github.com/electronicmaterialsoffice/firmware-altar-i https://github.com/electronicmaterialsoffice/firmware-altar-... Both Altar I and Altar II firmware are based on the open-source ZMK (https://zmk.dev https://zmk.dev). We try to contribute back to ZMK whenever we can because we have benefitted so much from it. Two members of our team are also long-standing ZMK contributors.
- computerfriend 2mo ago
  Will the app also be free/open-source?

gilthelander 2mo ago

I don't understand the overwhelming praise. This product is just bizarre. Who is this for? What's with the giant numbers and tiny symbols? I know where the numbers are from muscle memory. I don't have the symbols memorized. Haptic feedback when you use the command key? Why? No number pad or page up/page dn, which would be something useful. This is like The Homer of keyboards. Does it play La Cucaracha out of the speaker if you push the knob four times? You clearly have the technical capabilities but the product requirements are bonkers.

buf 2mo ago
It's made for keyboard enthusiasts. Give it a shot. Maybe you'll be one of them.
kccqzy 2mo ago
Part of the reason for the overwhelming praise is because this is a “Show HN” thread[0]. People liked the amount of effort put in. Keyboards are highly personal anyways, so I wouldn’t be surprised that an average person would disagree with a few design decisions here. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html
phoghed 2mo ago
> who is this for? Me and my preorder
platevoltage 2mo ago
There aren't many Mac layout mechanical keyboards out there. This is an addition to the very few choices out there. I don't know why you feel the need to shit on it.

Tsiklon 2mo ago

I am a big fan of the original Altar. I like that you’ve been trying new things with that design like the novel keycap profile. The switches look like cherry ultra low profile switches. I’ve not tried these out, how do they feel compared to the linear kailh choc v1’s you used before.

aemerson_ 2mo ago
Glad you like Altar I! They feel quite different to the Chocs, unsurprisingly. Although the required actuation force is close to the Choc Reds (40gf on our switch vs 50gf on the Choc Reds), because it's spread over such a small vertical travel it feels much "snappier". There is also very little pre-travel. It's kind of like a much sharper/tactile feeling chiclet switch with more vertical travel, if that makes sense.

Hugsbox 2mo ago

Unfortunately, no numpad is definitely a dealbreaker. Looks like a really cool product, but the numpad is a _must_ for any keyboard you want to do real work on, at least in my opinion.

phoghed 2mo ago
Maybe if excel is your main software used I could see that, can’t remember the last time I typed enough numbers to make it worth it though.
- Hugsbox 2mo ago
  I don't like playing Nethack without it :( But yeah, I guess that's fair, not everybody's workload is going to involve inputting incident numbers, and order numbers, and asset numbers, etc etc etc all the time... even IP addresses, I just find it so much more comfortable with the numpad, whereas I find I have a tough time touch-typing on the number row.

whycombinetor 2mo ago

Out of curiosity, what exactly is a "fully mechanical scissor switch"? And is this the first such switch on the market? If I search for other such products I can only find "metal scissor switch over rubber dome" style.

xingped 2mo ago

Love the design and have also wanted a super low profile mechanical keyboard like this! I have one question though - what is the travel or activation distance of the keys? The one thing I actually like about the magic keyboard or Microsoft's designer keyboard is that the "click" is immediate and the entirety travel distance of the key is the activation bump. I dislike any amount of the "extra" travel distance (I'm not sure if I'm using the right words/description, but I hope you get what I mean) of regular mechanical switches and is the main thing that turns me off from them. Oh also, is it possible to get a Windows version or switch the keys around to accommodate Windows as well?

aemerson_ 2mo ago
The travel distance on the Altar II switches is 1.8mm, so about 0.8mm more than on a MacBook keyboard. Similar to those keyboards, there is very little pre-travel on Altar II keys. With regard to Windows keys that is a possibility. We shipped our previous keyboard, Altar I, with both Mac and Windows markings on the keys.
- xingped 2mo ago
  It looks like the travel distance on the Microsoft Designer Keyboard is 1.35mm, so not far off. How long are preorders/is the preorder discount available? I may seriously consider this.
  - aemerson_ 2mo ago
    Reservations are open until the Kickstarter launches on November 10th 2026.
glitchc 2mo ago
What you are referring to is called the pre-travel distance. There are mechanical key options with very short pre-travel, such as the Cherry MX and Kailh Silver switches. They're mainly used for gaming. https://keychron.ca/blogs/news/kailh-mechanical-switch-guide https://keychron.ca/blogs/news/kailh-mechanical-switch-guide

xiconfjs 2mo ago

What is the weight?

aemerson_ 2mo ago
The final weight has not been determined yet as we are trying out different materials, internal designs and components. But the final weight will be 300g-400g or so.

tempodox 2mo ago

OK, I want it, but for Linux.

rc5150 2mo ago

there is nothing more satisfying than the thickness of the device being the same thickness of the charge cable terminal. This looks dope, looking forward to ordering in the future.

aemerson_ 2mo ago
Fitting the USB-C port into it was actually a real challenge. We also have custom made USB-C housing because all the off the shelf ones were thicker than the keyboard!

arikrahman 2mo ago

With this was more in line with corne style split keyboards and really made for programmers like enthium.

isoprophlex 2mo ago

Rarely have I wanted to spend money on a peripheral as readily as on this keyboard. It looks like it's perfection.

znnajdla 2mo ago

An indie dev beating Apple at its own game is some feat. This inspires me. Would purchase in a heartbeat.

xp84 2mo ago
Right? When Apple expects $149 minimum for their extremely mediocre membrane keyboard, and its only feature is the one they cheat to keep exclusive, it's embarrassing how much better a tiny team can do.
aemerson_ 2mo ago
Thank you so much. It means a lot to hear that. We're a very small team (1 full time, 3 part time) so going up against a company worth five trillion dollars is quite daunting!

cosmic_cheese 2mo ago

Looks great, but at this point I’m too used to HHKB layout on custom MX/topre boards to go back to full time typical 65%/75% layouts. Standard Delete/Backspace position in particular is almost grating now. Totally understand if that’s too niche of a market to serve, though. The switches look a lot like the new ultra low profile Cherry switches that Alienware was putting on their laptops a few years ago, is that what they are?

swiftcoder 2mo ago

Congrats on the industrial design, that is one of the nicest looking keyboards I've seen in a hot minute.

jonasmst 2mo ago

I love it when people obsessively iterate over something seemingly trivial until it's exactly what they want. This looks amazing, congrats on the launch. I love mechanical keys, but I keep coming back to the Magic keyboard because mechanical keyboards are so clunky. I would order this in a heartbeat if it was available with a nordic layout

TacticalCoder 2mo ago
> ... but I keep coming back to the Magic keyboard because mechanical keyboards are so clunky For a laptop or for a desktop? For a desktop the keyboard sits its entire life on the... desk? And a laptop happens to have its own keyboard. The only people I know who use an external keyboard with a laptop do it precisely because they want a particular mechanical switch / keyboard layout. Are there people taking their Magic keyboard with them in their backpack or car or whatever just to hook it to a laptop? I don't think many do that. So you find a keyboard on a desk looks clunky? Do you need a "not clunky" keyboard to take pictures you post on Instagram? I've got a 60% mechanical keyboard on my desk: its footprint is smaller than some Magic keyboard versions. And, well, vertically there's room on my desk.
- jonasmst 2mo ago
  Clunky might have been the wrong word for it. Chunky? They're almost always too tall for my liking. I rest my palms on the desk while I type, I don't get how people do that with 20mm tall keyboards without straining their wrists. And I don't think people use mechanical keyboards for the switches themselves, but for the tactile typing experience the switches provide. Hence the appeal of this design: Mechanical, yet slim.

philistine 2mo ago

Very cool looking, but there is an ocean of mechanical keyboards already available with the US keyboard layout. I would explore making ISO international versions. That market is underserved. Because I wanted a mechanical keyboard with a CAN/CSA Z243.200-92 layout with Mac modifiers, I had to design my own layout in SVG for a Max Keyboards custom job. Keep in mind, I did not want to design my own, but I had to!

LeBit 2mo ago
Tu connais Qwerty Lafayette? https://qwerty-lafayette.org/ https://qwerty-lafayette.org/
- philistine 2mo ago
  Je suis gaucher, et j'ai fait le choix idiot quand j'étais jeune de mettre ma souris à gauche. C'est un choix très étrange, mais ça fait en sorte que je n'ai jamais eu à me troubler des touches supplémentaires à droite. Sont juste là, accessible, et pas dans mon chemin. Mon clavier est de pleine taille sans enjeu ergonomique pour moi.
  - LeBit 2mo ago
    J’utilise également une trackball à gauche de mon clavier à cause de douleurs à mon épaule droite. L’avantage de Lafayette est que toutes les touches sont dans les deux blocs 3x5 du clavier. C’est plus ergonomique, la gestion des accents est beaucoup plus logique et confortable et le layer des symboles est clairement fait pour faciliter les déplacements vi. C’est le meilleur layout Qwerty pour développeurs francophones.

theodric 2mo ago

Sent to my rich friend. He wants 3 in white!

addaon 2mo ago

Order placed. I respect that you're doing a single variant up front, and I understand the business challenges and risks of going wide on a niche product like this... but as a single datapoint, I'll pay double for an ortholinear with similar features and style.

LeBit 2mo ago

It is time to introduce split space bars in every new keyboard designs. The single wide space bar is an even worse offender than row staggered or qwerty.

altairprime 2mo ago

Hey, hooray! I still have my switch-modded Altar I but it ended up being too tall for me, so this is a surprisingly great discovery for my morning. Looking forward to trying a new keyboard :D

threecheese 2mo ago

Reserved! I would have paid the 249 today btw :) she looks beautiful.

archagon 2mo ago

Great work! Have you, or do you intend to, write about the process of bringing this to fruition? Would love to learn more about how a polished bit of hardware like this is designed.

aemerson_ 2mo ago
I have not written about the process but it is a great idea, I'd love to do that. An audio format might also be interesting.

nocebolauncher 2mo ago

[dead]

swingboy 2mo ago

Great looking keyboard but why are the numbers on the number keys so large? They stick out like a sore thumb.

LoganDark 2mo ago
Agreed, I love a lot of the design but the unnecessary "quirkiness" in aspects like this are a bit of a turn-off.
- StilesCrisis 2mo ago
  Same. Feels like the project takes plenty of risks in other ways and should have played it safe with aesthetic design.
mft_ 2mo ago
It reminds me a little of the large number keys (directly underneath the screen) on the original OP-1: https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1/original https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1/original
d3Xt3r 2mo ago
Agreed, the legends a huge turn-off. Would've bought this keyboard if it weren't for that. Oh and the dial sticks out a bit too much too, would've preferred if it were a flat dial that sat flush with the rest of the keys.
- crote 2mo ago
  It supports multiple dials, including some flatter ones. It even lets you 3D print your own dial.

harrygeez 2mo ago

I love this! Though I don't own a Mac anymore. I expect this to work as a standard keyboard in Linux? Which features are mac-only?

deepsun 2mo ago

Well, for programming it's not convenient -- no Insert/Pageup/Screenshot buttons.

red_hare 2mo ago
15 years of mouse-free professional programming and never in my life have I touched these.
- naikrovek 2mo ago
  30 years of professional programming and I touch "Home", "End", "PgUp", "PgDn", "Ins", and "Del" every single day.
  - f311a 2mo ago
    You can do this using fn button, without moving your hand every time you need to press them. It's very convenient, when your hand don't move at all and can reach every button.
    - naikrovek 2mo ago
      you can do it using any button you like. lots of keyboards are entirely remappable. i don't understand how/why one saying they never touch these buttons is some kind of flex, like it's somehow superior to avoid using some keys or something.
    - chicagobuss 2mo ago
      It's also very convenient to not have to remember a bunch of extra combos or perform the gymnastics to press them, especially if you need other modifiers too like shift+pgup, shift+ctrl+pageup, etc
      - deleted 2mo ago
        [deleted]
    - 2mo ago

rxyz 2mo ago

What a beautiful device. Few questions: Will it be okay for someone who switches between devices and OSes often? Can I have layers that I can swap between like on a VIA board? What is the click latency? Is USB just for charging or can I use it without BT?

ebastler 2mo ago
The board runs ZMK, which handles layers quite similarly to QMK/VIA. Whether you can bind dedicated layers to output profiles for automated switching in ZMK I do not know, but toggling between layers manually via some shortcut when you switch between devices works for sure. There is a video by one of the ZMK team members where he tested ZMK latency (wired and wireless) against other options on the market - it is, however, fairly dated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWL4nU-vtWs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWL4nU-vtWs The USB port allows for wired operation while charging. The fact that some products refuse to do this still bothers me (cough MX Master 3).
- aemerson_ 2mo ago
  (For reference @ebastler designed the PCB for Altar II, and did an amazing job)
- rxyz 2mo ago
  Yeah Logitech MX Keys was the reason I asked. Without their $20 dongle it’s not a full product that can be connected to any pc via usb. Anyway, Thanks for the answers. Shortcuts would be enough for me. I was eyeing a lofree board but this is more interesting

aselimov3 2mo ago

This is so sick. I'm almost convincing myself to get it but I feel like I would really miss my 36% keyboard with multiple layers too much. Still tho...

gaigalas 2mo ago

I was really excited about Altar I, but no shipping to Brazil, so I gave up on it. Nice to see the idea continues (consider worldwide shipping would be my only feedback on the idea, I guess). I now own a Logitech MX Keys S and I'm quite happy with it.

ndiddy 2mo ago

The thing I find most attractive about mechanical keyboards is that they send a keypress when a key is only partially pressed down. When combined with the tactile bump and audible click created by actuating the key, this means that typing on a mechanical keyboard is much less fatiguing than using a rubber dome or laptop keyboard because you're only pushing the key down partially until you feel the bump and hear the click rather than slamming your finger into the bottom of the keyboard. Does your keyboard still have this feature even with the slim profile?

lsaferite 2mo ago
You should check into hall effect mechanical keyboards. They can have a floating actuation point for retrigger that is based on detecting press, partial release, press. It's really pretty cool.
aemerson_ 2mo ago
I believe you are referring to the "pre-travel" of the key and yes, Altar II has a very small amount of pre-travel actually. This is partially due to it having such a small vertical travel.
- ndiddy 2mo ago
  Nice, thanks for confirming that. In practice, can you type on the keyboard without bottoming out the keys, or is it more like a laptop keyboard?

ifjeicjwidj 2mo ago

This is absolutely fantastic, but those gigantic numbers are just bizarre and not at all good to look at. They feel completely out of place there, like you enlarged them by mistake. Not good.

naikrovek 2mo ago

Maybe a bit (a lot) overboard with the marketing snazz on this page. it's a keyboard It's not a miracle. If you're going to have all this 3D imagery, put a glTF model viewer on the page, and let me look at it. though to be told, I definitely want one. low profile keyboards are indeed my jam. I don't know why the hell keyboards need to have batteries though. No one needs a wireless keyboard. Wires are not that much of a pain in the ass. Coiled, self-retracting keyboard cables are a thing. Keyboards do not need to be wireless. Wires are fine, I promise! Wireless mouse? Sure. Wires make the mouse move when you don't want it to move. Wireless credential entry device? Those should remain wired, I think.

Magicrafter13 2mo ago

I can't go back to a staggered typewriter layout, ergonomic columnar is where it's at. I'm curious what the purpose of haptic feedback on an already mechanical keyboard is? Cool that you've been able to turn this into a livable business though.

LoganDark 2mo ago
It's feedback for the magnetically-coupled dial, and optionally an accessory to notifications.
aemerson_ 2mo ago
Good question on the haptics. There's no feedback when press most of the keys. But there is some feedback when you do things like turn the dial, or complete a shortcut (e.g. cmd + c). This is all configurable in the companion app as well.

dmhmr 2mo ago

Love what you did, the dedication for 2 years to launch this is awesome. Apple keyboards are near-horrific IMO so you are filling an important niche for sure. I know it is a silly complaint in the mech KB space but the price compared to something like a Keychron K3 makes this a no-go for my preferences. The K3 is very close to what I'd consider suitable as a daily driver at work. Thank you for including audio of the typing!!!! Again this is my preference, the Alter II is not "thocky" enough for what I like to hear. Clacky and Clicky keyboards are just far too distracting or painful to listen to for extended periods. Also interesting to see a speaker built-in. I'd have cut it for cost and space.

energy123 2mo ago
> Apple keyboards are near-horrific IMO I visited a mechanical keyboard shop, tried about 20 of them including low profile variants, then visited an Apple shop. Both shops allowed me to sit down and measure my typing speeds on a computer over many trials. The apple magic keyboard, full-size, gives me about 10-20% faster typing speeds. Over the previous three years I had only used mechanical keyboards. I also found it very aesthetically pleasing to type on, rivalled only by the Logitech pebble in terms of subjective feel. There's something about feeling the whole aluminium frame and plastic membrane flex when I hit a key hard that I find pleasing in a way that isn't matched by many other keyboards. I bought one, and it's the only piece of apple hardware I own. My 3 mechanical keyboards are collecting dust.
aemerson_ 2mo ago
Thank you, and what you say is completely fair. The Keychron K3 is an excellent keyboard and certainly gets the job done for many people. I would actually argue Altar II is excellent value at $249, especially when you consider the materials, special components, and scale we are at. Altar II is quite a quiet keyboard, and there is a special sandwich of materials specifically designed to make it as quiet as possible. The built-in speaker is interesting. Really it's just there because it's fun, and its nice to get the odd bleep or chime when your keyboard connects or begins charging.

runjake 2mo ago

LOVE the industrial design. HATE the font, especially on the number keys. But, great job overall!

copperx 2mo ago
The keyboard seems to be missing important symbols, such as - and =, so it's likely not the final design.
- throwaway89201 2mo ago
  Those characters are present. The design of the number row is just so 'out there' that you missed them.
- canada_dry 2mo ago
  Because it's backlit I'm guessing changing the eclectic number row design isn't an option that can be easily changed (for this version anyway).
  - crote 2mo ago
    The usual way of doing backlight is by having the LED underneath the switch and letting the switch transmit the light upwards. Many switches have special cutout positions for this, so the lighting for all the square keys is identical. The only issue is that the keycap itself needs to be partially translucent and partially opaque, so rather than laser-etching or printing a legend they need to be "double-shot"[0], which means a two-phase injection molding process. This makes altering of the keycaps quite expensive as you need a new set of molds - which is especially bad if you were using one mold to produce an entire set of keycaps at once. It's definitely doable to ship it with two different number rows, but it's the kind of thing you really want to know at the very start. [0]: https://deskthority.net/wiki/Double-shot_moulding https://deskthority.net/wiki/Double-shot_moulding
waffletower 2mo ago
I actually like the number font, the presence, but the loss of visibility for the shifted symbols is a huge loss. I know where the numbers are -- I admittedly need more reminding for the symbols as I never explicitly practiced them. The muscle memory for them isn't quite as strong and in low light I need to see them.

nmca 2mo ago

It would be glorious if there was a split version!

railgunmerlin 2mo ago

given kickstarter is november, when do you expect to ship?

aemerson_ 2mo ago
Early summer 2027 is the target.

tejohnso 2mo ago

For Apple folks I guess, but would be nice to see a pointing stick. Trackpoint keyboards are becoming difficult to find and a suitable replacement would be an instant buy.

Stitch4223 2mo ago

Sold me one, even though it doesn’t have Touch ID. It can be forgiven given the rest. The mdial is amazing. The Nixie tube numbers are fun. The sleekness. And this website with all demo’s is really well made. Also the “about” site is cool. You were not underpromising when stating Apple didn’t spend enough energy here. This is a leap. And I fully trust you’ll deliver. If anything, why not work at Apple after this adventure and get these things (or another next level keyboard) out at massive scale?

numpad0 2mo ago

I don't even know if this is going to be a big or a tiny ask, and I don't know if I'm going to end up with this beautiful product at all, but just in case it's going to be trivial to do so, could you add an option or extra keycaps to have Caps Lock key physically engraved as "Control"? IIUC the ctrl-caps swap itself isn't so rare, but actual keycaps engraved as such seem to be relatively rare. It's apparently a UNIX thing, and old Apple, NeXT, some of DEC, Sun, HP UNIX, Sony NEWS, even IBM XT, many of modern Mac JIS, etc. seem to/did/do have the legends for that key as "Control", "CTRL", or "Ctrl". I think that adds even more to the cool factor.

waffletower 2mo ago
Caps Lock is such a tragic throwback. Even after decades of ridicule "Caps lock is cruise control for cool" keyboard designers don't get that we don't want it.
- vincent-manis 2mo ago
  I for one really appreciate Caps Lock. I always remap it as Compose.
aemerson_ 2mo ago
That is a very interesting detail, I never knew that!

waffletower 2mo ago

Cramming the fn key into the sacred ctrl-alt-cmd triumvirate is disagreeable. Would require learning and remapping. I prefer fn to be distant as I have chorded for decades with the said trio.

alt227 2mo ago

Love the keyboard, great job! the website however is a terrible experience. There is so much movement whilst scrolling that it triggers my motion sickness.

hamburglar 2mo ago

This looks incredible but I’m skeptical you can actually produce it for $250 and maintain the level of quality and features that you claim. And it appears you’re offering $100 off of that (or is that the post discount price? It’s hard to tell). I guess I will wait and see.

aemerson_ 2mo ago
We have spent a lot of time and effort finding manufacturing partners and ensuring they can produce Altar II at the scale and quality we require. In fact we have delayed announcing Altar II for a long time because we wanted to be absolutely certain it was manufacturable and shippable at our price points. Do also bear in mind the final retail price is $349. the $249 price is for early pre-orders only.
- bsoles 2mo ago
  I am sure there are afficionados of these things, but $349 for a keyboard is crazy. I am not sure what you get in return for such a price..
  - crote 2mo ago
    It's a luxury product. People spend tens of thousands on a watch, what's a few hundred for a keyboard? In this hobby people are more than happy to pay that much for a second-hand semi-mass-produced TKL, provided it has the right switches and keycaps!
  - dmd 2mo ago
    I know probably 10+ people who have paid more than $500 for a mouse.
- Tepix 2mo ago
  That‘s the same price as a Keyboardio Model 100 which is split, wooden and has sculpted RGB backlit keys. Whoah. That said, big fan of that volume button!
crote 2mo ago

allenc 2mo ago

I've built about 10 mechanical keyboards so far, including a bunch of split ergo ones and low profile variants too. From that, I know the layout matters a lot, as well as the switches themselves; the programability and other features to me are nice but ultimately can be worked around. I'm curious about the switches you're using. On the tech specs it says: "Dual steel arm scissor switch w/ retention spring, 40gf actuation force" Are they custom switches then? If so, are they most similar to current Magic Keyboard switch feel, or something Choc or MX low profile, or their own thing altogether?

aemerson_ 2mo ago
The switches feel like a M-Series MacBook with a decent amount more travel and more "snappy", tactile feeling. They feel quite different to, for example, Choc switches (which we used on our previous keyboard).
- allenc 2mo ago
  That's really interesting. Hmm... it's too bad that there's no easy way to try out the keyboard and its unique switches before committing. But it's intriguing nonetheless. Can you share how long you're looking to run the preorder/early bird special?
crote 2mo ago
They are almost certainly the Cherry MX Ultra Low Profile[0], or else an almost 1:1 clone of them. Identical design, identical height and actuation distance. The actuation force is a bit off, but those numbers are more of a suggestion anyways. [0]: https://www.cherry.de/en-us/product/mx-ulp-tactile https://www.cherry.de/en-us/product/mx-ulp-tactile

StilesCrisis 2mo ago

Is there any way to prop it up so it doesn't lay flat against the table? I have round foam adhesive dots stuck to the bottom of my current Apple keyboards. It works, but it's an obvious deficiency in the design. Every other keyboard on the market has tilt.

swah 2mo ago

At this point - make it a tool for agentic work. Leds that tell you that some agent is idle/working and needs attention. Clickable = open the right terminal etc. And dictation button, some cool PTS kind :)

prewett 2mo ago
Maybe even something like a small LCD display, and it could be touch sensitive so you could switch directly to an agent? Like ... the Touch Bar? :) (I always liked the idea of the Touch Bar, but in practice I only used it to change the volume. I still miss that, though. Now I have to Opt-Shift-Volume to try to get the right volume, which is always halfway between the options somehow.)

hollow-moe 2mo ago

Awesome, seeing it's so thin have you planned for the possible battery ballooning ? I guess it is hidden on the left side under the logo ?

aemerson_ 2mo ago
The battery is in the logo side, correct. In fact most of that entire area is taken up by the battery! We did expand vertically that area slightly as you can see, to allow for a slightly thicker batter.

jeffgreco 2mo ago

The design is on point and the numbers look great. I want one.

buildinext 2mo ago

reserved...looking forward to giving this a ride tks for sharing

thatxliner 2mo ago

I feel like this is similar to what Work Louder makes? Am I tripping?

Insanity 2mo ago

I would love this in a 60% keyboard, seems great for travel and work. Any plans to support different form factors in the future?

iammrpayments 2mo ago

Looks a lot like mistel airone: https://mistelkeyboard.com/products/9a36520f591f4f8b8e1253abf6885b51 https://mistelkeyboard.com/products/9a36520f591f4f8b8e1253ab... I used to use it everyday but the low profile switches sometimes get stuck and it’s also a little bit tiring to type. I currently use nuphyair 60 HE, and I find the low sensitivity keys don’t tire my fingers.

platevoltage 2mo ago

This is very cool and it looks like a lot of effort went into it. Personally, I like the high profile clunky mechanical keyboard experience, so it's probably not for me, but I really hope this does well. I also really hate Apples decision to put the FN key in the bottom left corner, but I understand following their layout. I always swap the ctrl and fn keys on my Apple devices, so I assume you could do the same thing here.

hingler36 2mo ago

The keyboard looks great in general, but jumping into switch design is a huge undertaking. If you're willing to share: how many presses are these rated for? What is the yield looking like for manufacturing these?

dramm 2mo ago

Looks very interesting, love to see the innovation/effort to go beyond the usual. What would be great for me is a version with Mac/vt-100 style number pad. Even mechanical keyboards that claim to be Mac focused largely have PC number pad layouts, and that is a pain with some software like Pro Tools keyboard shortcuts, and some legacy DEC terminal emulation needs.

ValentineC 2mo ago

Is the battery replaceable? Or is the keyboard going to be tethered-only when the lithium battery degrades after 5-10 years?

crote 2mo ago
From the renders it looks like the housing can be screwed open and the battery seems to be connected via pogo pins, so it should be user-replaceable. The biggest question is going to be: can you still source a replacement one 10 years from now?

WesolyKubeczek 2mo ago

Would be ever so awesome if the keyboard had feet. As far as ergonomics go, I don't care too much about split layouts and similar nonsense, but my wrists start to hurt really fast when the keyboard is lying flat on the desk. I've bought adhesive folding feet for my laptops. They are awesome. I used a pair for my B104 (a reproduction of IBM beam spring switches in a modern keyboard). I still wish I didn't have to glue any contraptions to devices I type on.

markbao 2mo ago

This is phenomenal. I know everyone is asking for their pet feature in this thread, but I would really like to see this in split keyboard format. They are much more comfortable to use since they put your wrist in a more natural position. And there are hardly any good split mechanical wireless keyboards – and certainly none this thin. Great work on this and congratulations on the launch!

nxc18 2mo ago

I agree that some aspects of the design are disagreeable, but it was an instant buy for me anyway. I loved the idea of mechanical keyboards and tactile feel; etc etc. But I type faster on Magic Keyboard. Being able to have both is potentially a dream come true. Even if it falls short, I want to financially reward the effort. But I am also very interested in the haptics - I like the haptics on Magic Trackpad and would like to see that part of the system advance further. For context, since it is such an underused feature, on Magic Trackpad allows haptic feedback for non-force touch actions; key examples are snapping in pages/keynote and the snap-to-north on two finger rotate in maps. There is a bug where this only works for internal trackpads on macOS Tahoe. I can’t wait to try this keyboard.

m463 2mo ago

I hate what apple did with the keyboard. They set a bad example with flat keys. They used to have slightly sculpted keys, where your fingers could find the keys and self-center, leading to accurate typing. But typical apple - thin is the target - and everyone follows

zahirbmirza 2mo ago

Amazing. Magic Mouse Next please : ) Again, this is just amazing.

aemerson_ 2mo ago
Don't tempt me with a good time. I would love to tackle a mouse — I have a lot of ideas!

geod_of_ix 2mo ago

Impressive. I have a thing for low profile keyboards

litoE 2mo ago

In the 1980s a company called Quotron developed a contactless keyboard. The main circuit board contained a bunch of LEDs and some sort of photo diodes or photo cells, all arranged in a grid. The keys were simply plungers that when pressed down interrupted the light beams shining into some of the receivers. The firmware then decided which key had been pressed and generated the appropriate code. The keyboard itself was huge. Us software people used to joke that, in a pinch, it could be used as a surfboard. One of the advantages was that you could pour a cup of coffee into the keyboard and it would just keep working.

ebastler 2mo ago
Optical keyboards are still around (although rare) and usually use some variation of Cherry MC style switches without contact pins. Newer tech also consists of magnetic designs (hall effect, tunnelmagnetoresistance or inductive). These all allow for analog input (variable user-settable actuation points for example) which makes them popular with the gaming crowd. I'm developing such a PCB for a different project at the moment. As far as I'm aware none of these are waterproof, however, as they all have exposed PCBs inside the case. I guess one could just conformally coat the circuit board, but I haven't seen that done yet for a commercial keyboard.

RigelKentaurus 2mo ago

Hi, I am not a user of mechanical keyboards, but I did want to say nice work on the website. The fonts, the colors, the layout -- I loved it all! Good luck, hope you sell a lot of keyboards.

calculated 2mo ago

Start shipping to Bulgaria please. I’ll buy it right away once you do. Let me know if I can somehow help on my end with that. Speechless on what you’ve made.

jarek83 2mo ago

Any chance to make it able to switch between machines?

hereme888 2mo ago

Beautiful work, both hardware and website.

hommelix 2mo ago

Great look! Do you plan ISO layout as well (German, French, etc)?

doublerebel 2mo ago

I am a very happy customer of the Altar I. The first one worked so well I picked up two more on the secondary market. Have had no issues. Easy to customize the effective layout as advertised. Firmware was open-sourced as promised. Delivery schedule was normal or better as Kickstarters/prefunding goes. I’m not sure I am the customer for the II, I bought the I as a good low-profile alternative to the Apple keyboards —- but it looks like a great product.

nunez 2mo ago

Hell yeah; so glad this exists. I love the Magic Keyboard but hate the lack of clack. Can't wait til this drops; thank you for making it!!!

prodigycorp 2mo ago

This is outstanding work. I hope you do well with this.

tomburgs 2mo ago

It looks super nice. I really like the name and the design, but as others have said the numbers seem to be a bit of a turn off. It really seems to throw off the visual balance and almost seems like there's a medical reason for it, like it's for people struggling with dyscalculia or something. Another small thing is that I would love if it was possible to swap the "caps" key for a different labeled one (or unlabeled), since it appears that there already is a caps key on the right-hand side anyways. I personally always bind control key to the caps key (stems from vim/hhkb) and it'd be nice if it was able to configure the keyboard to reflect that.

tomburgs 2mo ago

It appears that the audio section where you can preview the different sounds (power on, charging, low battery) are not working for me. It throws a `Uncaught (in promise) NotSupportedError: The element has no supported sources.` on `audio.play();` at the very end of main.js.

aemerson_ 2mo ago
Thank you for flagging this, it is now fixed. It was an issue with Firefox and the codec we use for the audio samples. I just changed the codec for the audio to something that works on all browsers.

healthycoder 2mo ago

The keyboard looks fantastic, but the numbers are so weird

anilakar 2mo ago

No ISO? No numpad? Also we're doing preorders for preorders now?

kanemarais 2mo ago

Banging design - perhaps one or two things I’d tone down a bit (numbers and dial). But overall nice work. Must have been fun to engineer.

terrycody 2mo ago

Please give us a way to buy this in China.