4 ms·

The reputation of datacenters precludes them due to some high-profile abuses of locals, as well as cities overcommitting brittle and unprepared infrastructure t

by ashleyn 2mo ago

The reputation of datacenters precludes them due to some high-profile abuses of locals, as well as cities overcommitting brittle and unprepared infrastructure to them. Consumer energy prices in 13+ states hiked because the grid was unable to meet the sudden demand. SpaceX's datacenter in Memphis used gas turbines to rapidly deploy Colossus before the grid could be upgraded, which resulted in an increase in local air emissions that was technically illegal. There are two Meta datacenters that oneshotted their local water supplies during construction and tests, resulting in sediment and bacteria going through consumers' taps. NV Energy cut off an entire town of residential properties because datacenters were more profitable, in a higher-stakes parallel to the ongoing RAM woes in consumer electronics. There's been more than enough well-justified association between "datacenter" and "abuses local resources" that I think nobody should really be surprised at the backlash toward them. The backlash is so furious that it's forming a rare example of a bipartisan, populist consensus on any given political issue.

tptacek 2mo ago
The infrastructure thing I get! The water thing is, I think, baloney, but depending on where you are there's energy generation concerns. Seems totally reasonable to me for local political bodies to demand that new data center projects account for what they'll do to the local power grid, and, obviously, running jet turbine gas generators is not a reasonable answer to those concerns. What frustrates me about the new political valence of data centers is that there are reasons to be optimistic about data centers in blue states, which could move the market towards renewables and grid modernization, making data centers --- which are going to happen one way or the other --- a vector for improving our current energy system. Instead, they're all just going to be pushed to the locales who will do the least to regulate energy usage.
- DANmode 2mo ago
  > The water thing is, I think, baloney It’s legal/permitted in most cases, but it’s certainly a problem, what these specific data centers are dispensing into the water table in certain places. What exactly are you saying is baloney?
  - namdnay 2mo ago
    The water sediment thing had nothing to do with the building being a data center I think? Any form of construction would interfere with people drinking well water next to it
    - tommica 2mo ago
      Isn't that enough to rethink the construction - it takes a while to build a data center, and I would not be happy that I have to suffer with shitty water because a data center is being built for years.
      - namdnay 2mo ago
        What I mean is that it’s got nothing to do with data centers. Saying “data centers pollute water” is misleading, in these situations 1) we’re talking about people pulling unfiltered untreated well water 2) any building would have had exactly the same effect.
        techpression 2mo ago
        What? How is a data center that runs insane amounts of water through it every single day the same as a warehouse with a tap and bathroom? And sure, a rocket launch pad would also cause issues, but now it’s a data center that is doing it, let’s not argue fictional realities.
        joatmon-snoo 2mo ago
        It’s not: the datacenter likely consumes less. Datacenters (1) use non-potable water during normal operation and (2) return most of the water they use to the water system, instead of consuming it (as opposed to, say, a golf course). I have yet to read anyone more compelling than Andy Masley on this: https://blog.andymasley.com/p/empire-of-ai-is-wildly-misleading https://blog.andymasley.com/p/empire-of-ai-is-wildly-mislead... (This isn’t a topic I know much about personally, so am open to being persuaded otherwise!)
- scheme271 2mo ago
  It doesn't help that at least one datacenter operator and possibly more promised municipalities in Arizona that they wouldn't use their water and then secretly used millions of gallons. This in the middle of water shortages.
  - creato 2mo ago
    I don't know what timeframe we are talking about here, but 1 million gallons is how much 33 people in the US use in a year. It's really not that much water.
    - Terr_ 2mo ago
      > 1 million gallons is how much 33 people in the US use in a year. For a moment I was worried that this might be an average that includes indirect usage through industry and agriculture, but AFAICT no, it's in line with just residential usage, so good-on-ya for that. > I don't know what timeframe we are talking about here The utility claims it was 30m gallons over 4 months [0], and 90mgal/yr would be like ~3k individuals. This seems pretty significant given that Fayetteville is only about ~20k residents. [1] [0] https://www.politico.com/news/2026/05/08/georgia-data-centers-water-00909988 https://www.politico.com/news/2026/05/08/georgia-data-center... [1] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/fayettevillecitygeorgia/PST045225 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/fayettevillecit...
      - tecleandor 2mo ago
        I've been checking stats and comparing it with here (Spain) and I never thought the difference of residential water usage was so different. Average use of water per capita in Spain is about 47m3 a year, so a third of the USA. And that number is quite consistent around the EU, except for Greece and Cyprus, where it's about double or even a bit more.
        applicative 2mo ago
        Spain and EU are like eg Connecticut
- kleton 2mo ago
  > The water thing It’s amazing how Karen Hao managed to graduate from MIT without learning the difference between m^3 and L
- mixdup 2mo ago
  >The water thing is, I think, baloney Just like everything else, it depends! There are designs that don't really use that much water, but there are also ways to build these things that absolutely destroy the local water supply. It's a legitimate concern that shouldn't be a deal killer without any discussion, but it also should be discussed and considered and understood how any given project is planning to use water
  - andsoitis 2mo ago
    > there are also ways to build these things that absolutely destroy the local water supply Has this happened somewhere?
    - mixdup 2mo ago
      I know of one example where this was a problem, it didn't destroy the local water supply but water usage was absolutely a problem. A family friend is a sales engineer for an industrial/commercial HVAC manufacturer and they had quoted a chiller that I think was basically a swamp cooler, in that it would constantly need new water as it cooled because it was using evaporative cooling Turns out they could not get enough water from the local water utility and a ground water source was not clean enough so they had to build a water pipeline all the way to a neighboring town to supply water for the chillers This is what I was talking about, depending on the HVAC setup it may be closed loop but also it could be evaporative swamp coolers that just absolutely destroy a ton of fresh water daily
      - deleted 2mo ago
        [deleted]
- nozzlegear 2mo ago
  > What frustrates me about the new political valence of data centers is that there are reasons to be optimistic about data centers in blue states, which could move the market towards renewables and grid modernization Companies often want to put data centers in the rural parts of blue states (like the southwest of Minnesota, where I live), where the locals are much more red and skeptical, if not outright hostile, toward renewables.
Terr_ 2mo ago
[flagged]
- inigyou 2mo ago
  You can't just call the party you disagree with corrupt.
  - lolbert6 2mo ago
    [flagged]
  - pjc50 2mo ago
    You can't just call corruption disagreement.
  - ChoGGi 2mo ago
    Are you saying the Trump administration isn't corrupt? Not this Memphis issue, general corruption.
    - hinkley 2mo ago
      Their net worth alone argues against this just being a character assassination.
  - cdrnsf 2mo ago
    You can't just call grifting and fascism disagreement.
- rayiner 2mo ago
  You’re spreading misinformation. The CAA requirements applies to “stationary gas turbines.” There was an ambiguity as to whether “stationary” applies to mobile gas turbines. After the Memphis kerfuffle, the Trump EPA clarified the rule to cover temporary mobile gas turbines: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/07/16/2026-14371/new-source-performance-standards-review-for-stationary-combustion-turbines-and-stationary-gas https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/07/16/2026-14...
- 2mo ago
nthdesign 2mo ago
Unless I'm missing something, the fill-and-flush procedure that Meta's contractors used dumped waste water into the non-potable sewer system, and it never made its way into drinking water. Still room for Meta's contractors to improve. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jul/08/meta-datacenter-ai-wyoming-water https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jul/08/meta-datacen...
palmotea 2mo ago
> ...which resulted in an increase in local air emissions that was technically illegal. Isn't it technically legal, but obviously offends the spirit of the law (and being a good neighbor) by driving a bus through a loophole?

by ashleyn 2mo ago

tptacek 2mo ago

The infrastructure thing I get! The water thing is, I think, baloney, but depending on where you are there's energy generation concerns. Seems totally reasonable to me for local political bodies to demand that new data center projects account for what they'll do to the local power grid, and, obviously, running jet turbine gas generators is not a reasonable answer to those concerns. What frustrates me about the new political valence of data centers is that there are reasons to be optimistic about data centers in blue states, which could move the market towards renewables and grid modernization, making data centers --- which are going to happen one way or the other --- a vector for improving our current energy system. Instead, they're all just going to be pushed to the locales who will do the least to regulate energy usage.

DANmode 2mo ago
> The water thing is, I think, baloney It’s legal/permitted in most cases, but it’s certainly a problem, what these specific data centers are dispensing into the water table in certain places. What exactly are you saying is baloney?
- namdnay 2mo ago
  The water sediment thing had nothing to do with the building being a data center I think? Any form of construction would interfere with people drinking well water next to it
  - tommica 2mo ago
    Isn't that enough to rethink the construction - it takes a while to build a data center, and I would not be happy that I have to suffer with shitty water because a data center is being built for years.
    - namdnay 2mo ago
      What I mean is that it’s got nothing to do with data centers. Saying “data centers pollute water” is misleading, in these situations 1) we’re talking about people pulling unfiltered untreated well water 2) any building would have had exactly the same effect.
      - techpression 2mo ago
        What? How is a data center that runs insane amounts of water through it every single day the same as a warehouse with a tap and bathroom? And sure, a rocket launch pad would also cause issues, but now it’s a data center that is doing it, let’s not argue fictional realities.
        joatmon-snoo 2mo ago
        It’s not: the datacenter likely consumes less. Datacenters (1) use non-potable water during normal operation and (2) return most of the water they use to the water system, instead of consuming it (as opposed to, say, a golf course). I have yet to read anyone more compelling than Andy Masley on this: https://blog.andymasley.com/p/empire-of-ai-is-wildly-misleading https://blog.andymasley.com/p/empire-of-ai-is-wildly-mislead... (This isn’t a topic I know much about personally, so am open to being persuaded otherwise!)
scheme271 2mo ago
It doesn't help that at least one datacenter operator and possibly more promised municipalities in Arizona that they wouldn't use their water and then secretly used millions of gallons. This in the middle of water shortages.
- creato 2mo ago
  I don't know what timeframe we are talking about here, but 1 million gallons is how much 33 people in the US use in a year. It's really not that much water.
  - Terr_ 2mo ago
    > 1 million gallons is how much 33 people in the US use in a year. For a moment I was worried that this might be an average that includes indirect usage through industry and agriculture, but AFAICT no, it's in line with just residential usage, so good-on-ya for that. > I don't know what timeframe we are talking about here The utility claims it was 30m gallons over 4 months [0], and 90mgal/yr would be like ~3k individuals. This seems pretty significant given that Fayetteville is only about ~20k residents. [1] [0] https://www.politico.com/news/2026/05/08/georgia-data-centers-water-00909988 https://www.politico.com/news/2026/05/08/georgia-data-center... [1] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/fayettevillecitygeorgia/PST045225 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/fayettevillecit...
    - tecleandor 2mo ago
      I've been checking stats and comparing it with here (Spain) and I never thought the difference of residential water usage was so different. Average use of water per capita in Spain is about 47m3 a year, so a third of the USA. And that number is quite consistent around the EU, except for Greece and Cyprus, where it's about double or even a bit more.
      - applicative 2mo ago
        Spain and EU are like eg Connecticut
kleton 2mo ago
> The water thing It’s amazing how Karen Hao managed to graduate from MIT without learning the difference between m^3 and L
mixdup 2mo ago
>The water thing is, I think, baloney Just like everything else, it depends! There are designs that don't really use that much water, but there are also ways to build these things that absolutely destroy the local water supply. It's a legitimate concern that shouldn't be a deal killer without any discussion, but it also should be discussed and considered and understood how any given project is planning to use water
- andsoitis 2mo ago
  > there are also ways to build these things that absolutely destroy the local water supply Has this happened somewhere?
  - mixdup 2mo ago
    I know of one example where this was a problem, it didn't destroy the local water supply but water usage was absolutely a problem. A family friend is a sales engineer for an industrial/commercial HVAC manufacturer and they had quoted a chiller that I think was basically a swamp cooler, in that it would constantly need new water as it cooled because it was using evaporative cooling Turns out they could not get enough water from the local water utility and a ground water source was not clean enough so they had to build a water pipeline all the way to a neighboring town to supply water for the chillers This is what I was talking about, depending on the HVAC setup it may be closed loop but also it could be evaporative swamp coolers that just absolutely destroy a ton of fresh water daily
    - deleted 2mo ago
      [deleted]
nozzlegear 2mo ago
> What frustrates me about the new political valence of data centers is that there are reasons to be optimistic about data centers in blue states, which could move the market towards renewables and grid modernization Companies often want to put data centers in the rural parts of blue states (like the southwest of Minnesota, where I live), where the locals are much more red and skeptical, if not outright hostile, toward renewables.

Terr_ 2mo ago

[flagged]

inigyou 2mo ago
You can't just call the party you disagree with corrupt.
- lolbert6 2mo ago
  [flagged]
- pjc50 2mo ago
  You can't just call corruption disagreement.
- ChoGGi 2mo ago
  Are you saying the Trump administration isn't corrupt? Not this Memphis issue, general corruption.
  - hinkley 2mo ago
    Their net worth alone argues against this just being a character assassination.
- cdrnsf 2mo ago
  You can't just call grifting and fascism disagreement.
rayiner 2mo ago
You’re spreading misinformation. The CAA requirements applies to “stationary gas turbines.” There was an ambiguity as to whether “stationary” applies to mobile gas turbines. After the Memphis kerfuffle, the Trump EPA clarified the rule to cover temporary mobile gas turbines: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/07/16/2026-14371/new-source-performance-standards-review-for-stationary-combustion-turbines-and-stationary-gas https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/07/16/2026-14...
2mo ago

nthdesign 2mo ago

Unless I'm missing something, the fill-and-flush procedure that Meta's contractors used dumped waste water into the non-potable sewer system, and it never made its way into drinking water. Still room for Meta's contractors to improve. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jul/08/meta-datacenter-ai-wyoming-water https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jul/08/meta-datacen...

palmotea 2mo ago

> ...which resulted in an increase in local air emissions that was technically illegal. Isn't it technically legal, but obviously offends the spirit of the law (and being a good neighbor) by driving a bus through a loophole?