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People in UK opposed train tracks in steam engine days, saying that the train engine sound scares their horses and cattle. Ofcourse data centers are far worse.
by zkmon 2mo ago
People in UK opposed train tracks in steam engine days, saying that the train engine sound scares their horses and cattle. Ofcourse data centers are far worse. But it is amusing to see how humanity continues to oppose tech and the tech buldozes anyway, like a evil monster.
- decimalenough 2mo agoHow are they "far worse"? Steam trains are noisy, polluting, require tons of coal, kill animals and people in their way, and crash fairly regularly (when built with 1800s technology). A data center is a big grey box that sits there humming quietly, and that's it. They do require power and lots of it, but unlikely steam engines they'll happily use solar, nuclear or anything else.
- StilesCrisis 2mo agoData centers are quite loud.
- mapontosevenths 2mo agoI worked in a data center for a decade. None of the neighbors even knew what it was. One actually stopped me to ask. It was very loud inside, but you couldn't hear it from outside unless the power failed and the generators came on.
- inigyou 2mo agoThe new AI ones are built below minimum standards as a cash grab and they somehow manage to be as loud as jet engines. I have no idea how they manage to achieve that, but I try to avoid denying reality. I agree that an ordinary non-AI data center is no worse than an office building without the people, but that isn't what's happening right now.
- mapontosevenths 2mo ago> somehow manage to be as loud as jet engines Thats what anti-AI activists say. A decibel meter is about $20. For some reason the people in those videos never have one.
- inigyou 2mo agoI saw one news report featuring a reporter casually holding a decibel meter. 55dB at a distance of about a kilometer.
- mapontosevenths 2mo ago55db is lower than the noise floor in the average office. They were probably just measuring the background noise of regular-ass being outside. For perspective, the inside of your home is probably about 40. When I turn on my box fan it's about 55. That said they can be loud when the generators are running. It's possible that when the grid can't keep up the volume goes up, but thats not meant to be a long term state.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- StilesCrisis 2mo agoWe're not talking 55dB peaks--it's a constant 55dB _tone_, and not a pleasant one.
- StilesCrisis 2mo agoHere: https://www.reddit.com/r/oddlyterrifying/s/RAUfB2WAMD https://www.reddit.com/r/oddlyterrifying/s/RAUfB2WAMD In this case it's a constant 60dB metallic whine. I would be livid if they built this near my home.
- inemesitaffia 2mo agoThat's a small datacenter with a terrible exhaust fan.
- skywhopper 2mo agoYes, the new ones often use dirty generators 24/7, and probably will for years. They are loud and toxic to the local community.
- mapontosevenths 2mo agoThe answer to that is to outlaw running noisy generators. It probably already is. Most places already have noise pollution laws designed to harass teenagers with loud music. They should enforce them. Force them to either install mufflers and proper exhausts on their generators or build their own power infrastructure. They don't now because nobody makes them and it would cost money.
- inigyou 2mo agoIf you outlaw noisy generators the DC doesn't get built, so it's the same as just outlawing the DC.
- mapontosevenths 2mo agoPeople who don't want to spend money doing it right say that, but when the choice becomes "some money or no money" they always pick "some money". A few mufflers aren't going to ruin the economy of a deal that size. It's like when California "destroyed the entire economy" by raising minimum wage. All the jobs are still there, prices are mostly the same. The only thing that moved were the goal posts.
- folkrav 2mo ago“Humming quietly”? Really? Humming, yeah, sure, but ask the people living next door how quiet they are.
- pama 2mo agoThe new ones will be though. Look up the specs for the NVIDIA Vera Rubin: no fans; recycled liquid cooling.
- ofrzeta 2mo agoThat's inside the DC, right? I'd think that even with current generation GPUs the noise of the fans won't be audible outside the building but the cooling infra that is outside the building plus (backup) power generation through gas or diesel generators. EDIT: recently I read about (I guess on HN) a new planned Amazon datacenter that was super environment-friendly. So in fact it might eventually be possible to create silent DCs but we'll see how this turns out.
- sliken 2mo agoMaybe, but for today, er 6 days ago: Public hearing set for nearly 650 diesel generators tied to Amazon data center.
- dqv 2mo agoSome new ones might be.
- pama 2mo agoAgreed in principle for today’s new ones, though with all the buying frenzy it quickly becomes hard to procure anything but the latest hardware and the economics of older generation hardware makes little sense for new data center deployments.
- ungreased0675 2mo agoThe data centers near me are pretty quiet. They’re set back from the road enough that they’re no louder than the background noise of traffic, wind, airplanes overhead, etc. I understand my small sample size doesn’t apply everywhere, but it does negate “all data centers are loud.” Some data centers might be loud.
- jappgar 2mo agoit's a dumb comparison and you're doubling down on it
- wizzwizz4 2mo agoYou're comparing steam trains in practice to datacentres in theory. To give one example: the US federal government is suspending all sorts of environmental regulations relating to pollution, just for datacentres: why would they do that if datacentres ran on clean solar or nuclear?
- sevenzero 2mo agoNoise pollution is a real issue, even for data centers that is "humming quietly". Same for its energy consumption. Water cooling is another issue, given that lots of the steam a data center generates can rain down in places that wont make the water re-join the water lifecycle easily.
- epolanski 2mo agoThey also need gargantuan amounts of fresh water. And it's anything but a quiet humming.
- deadbunny 2mo ago96db is quiet? https://www.eesi.org/articles/view/communities-are-raising-noise-pollution-concernsabout-data-centers https://www.eesi.org/articles/view/communities-are-raising-n...
- user43928 2mo agoThe posted article measured 67db, the sound of a lively conversation, next to the data center. I am interested to learn where the 96db comes from. I see only vague claims about up to 96db inside of a server rack, but could not locate a concrete measurement or method used to determine this number.
- mapontosevenths 2mo agoI stopped reading this a few lines in at: "Because there is a lack of reliable data from sound level meters ..." A decibel meter is about $20 on Amazon, often cheaper. I dont know what their agenda is, but they've got one.
- ptero 2mo agoThe linked article claims that sound can be heard "hundreds of feet from the data center". That is a very short range. As much as I doubt that spreading of the data centers is a good thing, noise is not the weapon to wield. Unless we are talking the center of a quaint town. And possibly not even then.
- Cthulhu_ 2mo agoI get why people wouldn't want (steam) trains in their proverbial back yard just as much as they wouldn't want datacenters. Trains may be a net benefit for a region's mobility and economy, but that doesn't undo the local disruption to people's environments. (I'm unconvinced datacenters have that impact on a region, it generates some jobs at best but most of those will be secondary/tertiary jobs. Primary jobs will be the people doing daily work in and around the site like security and maintenance, but the higher paid specialist work will be flown in or done remotely)
- skywhopper 2mo agoThey tend to use coal and natural gas, instead, often in especially dirty forms. The fact that they can use solar doesn’t mean they do.
- StilesCrisis 2mo agoIt sounds more like humanity opposes noise pollution?
- dataengineer56 2mo ago>But it is amusing to see how humanity continues to oppose tech and the tech buldozes anyway, like a evil monster. So you're saying the UK should never have built a railway system? It sounds like tech is right.
- inigyou 2mo agoThe benefits of the railway system should've been distributed a hell of a lot more evenly and it should have been blocked until that happened, yes.
- gyanchawdhary 2mo agoI disagree with the “evil monster” part, but thanks for sharing that example. I’ll probably use it the opposite way in meetings .. people were deeply skeptical of railways too, yet they ended up transforming society for the better.
- inigyou 2mo agoOnly after a lot of mega companies ruined a lot of people's lives and then went bankrupt.
- gyanchawdhary 2mo agoah, yes.
- epolanski 2mo agoIt's not about opposing data centers, it's about opposing them close to where you live. There's now a gargantuan amount of documentation about their impact: - insane noise levels 24/7, you can hear them even at miles away - virtually no jobs brought to the place, besides some construction work early on - massive drain of local resources - massive eye sore Like, I'm not against data centers per se, but you tell me they building one few miles from my house, I'm listing it the day I hear it and escaping as far as I can.
- ptero 2mo ago> There's now a gargantuan amount of documentation about their impact: - insane noise levels 24/7, you can hear them even at miles away Can you share a link or two to this? Hearing a data center from miles away sounds suspicious.
- knowaveragejoe 2mo agoI'm fairly sure that most aren't any louder than other facilities of similar size. It's comes down to their cooling infrastructure and they vary widely.
- solenoid0937 2mo ago[flagged]
- inigyou 2mo agoIt's almost like all of that is true and early train companies didn't even bring enough value to the area to offset all of that? Trains still do that today. They cut a locality in half with only certain crossing points being allowed. But at least enough people ride the train they can feel it's worthwhile.
- bob001 2mo ago> like a evil monster. I tend to like not fearing starvation every year, not fearing freezing to death every year and not having the vast majority of my kids die. Industrialization led to all that.
- inigyou 2mo agoI didn't realize we were going to freeze to death if there weren't chatboxes everywhere.
- bob001 2mo ago[flagged]
- inigyou 2mo agoI didn't realize we were still in the industrial revolution.
- inigyou 2mo agoWow, HN really believes that AI is keeping us from freezing to death?
- JuniperMesos 2mo agoWell, we're all going to die of something unless we invent radical life extension technology. I personally hope that artifical intelligence makes progress on this before I myself get old and die.
- YackerLose 2mo agoPost-industrialization, AI-fication, Human Replacement (whatever it ought to be called) could take that all away.
- bob001 2mo agoI didn't make the analogy to railroads. I'm just pointing out that its a terrible one if you want to use it to argue against AI.