3 ms·

Is there any way to help the elderly navigate this shift? "Ignore anyone asking you for money unless you know them and they do it in-person."

UqWBcuFx6NV4r 2mo ago
That is completely impractical for most people.
- tty456 2mo ago
  Why?
- BLKNSLVR 2mo ago
  Say what?! It sounds extremely obvious and infinitely practical. How often are you (or your parents) legitimately asked for money via email / internet? I mean, my answer is: never. My parents' answer is: never. My parents-in-law answer is: never.
  - infamouscow 2mo ago
    The scam is usually a phone call from a loved one in jail or the hospital. It immediately creates a sense of panic and fully explains the random phone number. The voice doesn't have to sound like you either.
    - userbinator 2mo ago
      This is where "security questions" can be useful; neither the question nor answer need to be real, and the more outrageous the better. "You're my daughter? Then tell me the name of your twelth pet centipede."
      - dosisking 2mo ago
        I use "Queen to queen's level 3" and then wait for the appropriate response.
        teddyh 2mo ago
        The answer is easily found by Google, and any AI could give the correct answer instantly.
        lesostep 2mo ago
        And that's why you teach your elders the wrong answer for a right question! :D
      - zbentley 2mo ago
        For voice scams this is critical. I set up duress codes with all of my non technical and elderly family and close friends last year. It should be a simple, pink-elephant-type nonsense question and answer that you rehearse a few times in person and make sure they never share with others. “Q: What’s your favorite leprechaun? A: Rutabaga” or something. Even cognitively impaired folks can, with a few rehearsals over a day or so, retain that easily, I’ve found. Reminding them to practice it when people reach out pretending to be me takes a bit more rehearsal, but I’ve found that it sticks reliably even then.
    - sophacles 2mo ago
      That's not "usually" the scam. It's a scam, but it's not the most common.
  - normie3000 2mo ago
    Great if that works for you. Asking for money is common over voice or whatsapp in some countries for things like medical care, funerals, weddings, police "fines", school fees etc.
    - BLKNSLVR 2mo ago
      Yeah, fair point, it's pretty well outside normal for me (there's a world outside of my lived experience? Nah!)
      - seanmcdirmid 2mo ago
        The scams have to be culturally relevant to be effective, which is why they set out wide bets looking to see what sticks with a fairly small target audience.
    - otikik 2mo ago
      Wow. Well those people are going to be scammed. A LOT
      - normie3000 2mo ago
        Yeah they do. Now add mobile money to the equation.
    - close04 2mo ago
      An addendum is don't give money when you're called by a "legitimate contact", call them back first. The scammer is remote so they can pretend to be the "legitimate contact" but not so easy to block the real legitimate contact from being contacted for validation.
mrheosuper 2mo ago
Easier said than done. One of most popular scam here is a scammer using deepfake/ai calling victim saying there was serious accident to one of victim's relative and they need money for hospital (that's how it works here, money for proper caring). The victim would be panic and send the money. Usually, the scammer will think of a scenario that give the victim very limited time to stop and think, or put them in the state that fear takes over their mind
- awesomeusername 2mo ago
  You just gave me an idea... Let's all pitch in and spread the cost of health care around. Average it out so no one gets left behind.
  - alibarber 2mo ago
    In places where we have that the scam is just money for transport, utilities, or whatever. Something has happened which means they cannot access their money and make the usual payment. We actually had an experience with a bank fraud team recently and they relentlessly ask over and over "is the recipient in financial difficulty?". They're not passing judgement on them but trying to work out if you've been convinced that they are and you need to send them money [urgently] to help.
  - joenot443 2mo ago
    My aunt was recently hit by this scam, they used a deep fake of a teenager and she really believed it was my cousin. The lie was that he was stuck in Montreal and needed money for the next flight home. This happened in Canada. I don’t think having socialized healthcare makes as much of a difference as one would hope.
Hackbraten 2mo ago
The problem is that many scammers now groom your brain into trusting them before they even mention money. This is a psychological thing where you can’t necessarily just tell yourself “I’m not going to fall for that.” There are reports from professional scambaiters who, after engaging with a phone scammer for a while, found themselves inexplicably clinging to the belief the scheme was real. This is possibly due to how our brains are wired to trust an already-established narrative and due to the effect that repeated interactions have on trust. When the scammer eventually steers the topic towards money, phenomena such as the Semmelweis reflex [0] may have already kicked in, which can make it super difficult to re-frame the person as a scammer. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semmelweis_reflex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semmelweis_reflex

UqWBcuFx6NV4r 2mo ago

That is completely impractical for most people.

tty456 2mo ago
Why?
BLKNSLVR 2mo ago
Say what?! It sounds extremely obvious and infinitely practical. How often are you (or your parents) legitimately asked for money via email / internet? I mean, my answer is: never. My parents' answer is: never. My parents-in-law answer is: never.
- infamouscow 2mo ago
  The scam is usually a phone call from a loved one in jail or the hospital. It immediately creates a sense of panic and fully explains the random phone number. The voice doesn't have to sound like you either.
  - userbinator 2mo ago
    This is where "security questions" can be useful; neither the question nor answer need to be real, and the more outrageous the better. "You're my daughter? Then tell me the name of your twelth pet centipede."
    - dosisking 2mo ago
      I use "Queen to queen's level 3" and then wait for the appropriate response.
      - teddyh 2mo ago
        The answer is easily found by Google, and any AI could give the correct answer instantly.
        lesostep 2mo ago
        And that's why you teach your elders the wrong answer for a right question! :D
    - zbentley 2mo ago
      For voice scams this is critical. I set up duress codes with all of my non technical and elderly family and close friends last year. It should be a simple, pink-elephant-type nonsense question and answer that you rehearse a few times in person and make sure they never share with others. “Q: What’s your favorite leprechaun? A: Rutabaga” or something. Even cognitively impaired folks can, with a few rehearsals over a day or so, retain that easily, I’ve found. Reminding them to practice it when people reach out pretending to be me takes a bit more rehearsal, but I’ve found that it sticks reliably even then.
  - sophacles 2mo ago
    That's not "usually" the scam. It's a scam, but it's not the most common.
- normie3000 2mo ago
  Great if that works for you. Asking for money is common over voice or whatsapp in some countries for things like medical care, funerals, weddings, police "fines", school fees etc.
  - BLKNSLVR 2mo ago
    Yeah, fair point, it's pretty well outside normal for me (there's a world outside of my lived experience? Nah!)
    - seanmcdirmid 2mo ago
      The scams have to be culturally relevant to be effective, which is why they set out wide bets looking to see what sticks with a fairly small target audience.
  - otikik 2mo ago
    Wow. Well those people are going to be scammed. A LOT
    - normie3000 2mo ago
      Yeah they do. Now add mobile money to the equation.
  - close04 2mo ago
    An addendum is don't give money when you're called by a "legitimate contact", call them back first. The scammer is remote so they can pretend to be the "legitimate contact" but not so easy to block the real legitimate contact from being contacted for validation.

mrheosuper 2mo ago

Easier said than done. One of most popular scam here is a scammer using deepfake/ai calling victim saying there was serious accident to one of victim's relative and they need money for hospital (that's how it works here, money for proper caring). The victim would be panic and send the money. Usually, the scammer will think of a scenario that give the victim very limited time to stop and think, or put them in the state that fear takes over their mind

awesomeusername 2mo ago
You just gave me an idea... Let's all pitch in and spread the cost of health care around. Average it out so no one gets left behind.
- alibarber 2mo ago
  In places where we have that the scam is just money for transport, utilities, or whatever. Something has happened which means they cannot access their money and make the usual payment. We actually had an experience with a bank fraud team recently and they relentlessly ask over and over "is the recipient in financial difficulty?". They're not passing judgement on them but trying to work out if you've been convinced that they are and you need to send them money [urgently] to help.
- joenot443 2mo ago
  My aunt was recently hit by this scam, they used a deep fake of a teenager and she really believed it was my cousin. The lie was that he was stuck in Montreal and needed money for the next flight home. This happened in Canada. I don’t think having socialized healthcare makes as much of a difference as one would hope.

Hackbraten 2mo ago

The problem is that many scammers now groom your brain into trusting them before they even mention money. This is a psychological thing where you can’t necessarily just tell yourself “I’m not going to fall for that.” There are reports from professional scambaiters who, after engaging with a phone scammer for a while, found themselves inexplicably clinging to the belief the scheme was real. This is possibly due to how our brains are wired to trust an already-established narrative and due to the effect that repeated interactions have on trust. When the scammer eventually steers the topic towards money, phenomena such as the Semmelweis reflex [0] may have already kicked in, which can make it super difficult to re-frame the person as a scammer. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semmelweis_reflex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semmelweis_reflex