7 ms·

The Psychedelic Toad of the Sonoran Desert

99 points by simonebrunozzi 2mo ago

julienchastang 2mo ago
Completely fascinating video on this topic just recently: https://www.wsj.com/video/the-race-to-commercialize-the-worlds-most-powerful-psychedelic/F24E9B22-38D3-4BFC-B80A-3B5F73423E0C https://www.wsj.com/video/the-race-to-commercialize-the-worl...
- octoberfranklin 2mo ago
  Link is broken: Access is temporarily restricted We detected unusual activity from your device or network. Reasons may include: Rapid taps or clicks JavaScript disabled or not working Automated (bot) activity on your network Use of developer or inspection tools Need help? Submit feedback.
mettamage 2mo ago
Have any studies been done on this particular psychedelic? I'm curious.
- throawayonthe 2mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-MeO-DMT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-MeO-DMT has some references and the "further reading" links might have way more
- ulrikrasmussen 2mo ago
  Most recent I know of: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/blp-003-for-treatment-resistant-depression-phase-2b-patient-enrollment-completed https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/blp-003-for-treatment-... Mebufotenin is 5-MeO-DMT
- john_strinlai 2mo ago
  plenty of scientific and not-really-scientific links available at erowid for 5-meo-dmt https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/5meo_dmt/5meo_dmt.shtml https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/5meo_dmt/5meo_dmt.shtml scientific references specifically at https://www.erowid.org/references/refs.php?S=5meo_dmt https://www.erowid.org/references/refs.php?S=5meo_dmt
- Aurornis 2mo ago
  A couple groups are trying to commercialize it. There have been some trials, but they're all relatively limited by depression trial standards. Double-blind is impossible because the participants know 100% if they've received it or not. Someone volunteering to sign up for a depression study to receive psychedelic drugs is probably a believer that they work, so the placebo groups end up disappointed and the active groups are happy they got assigned the psychedelic they signed up. One of the latest studies: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2846834 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/... They followed participants for 8 days, which is pretty disappointing. They really need to follow people for several months to see if anything holds or if it's a short-term placebo effect that wears off.
  - eleveriven 2mo ago
    This seems like one of those areas where "double-blind randomized trial" sounds much cleaner on paper than it actually is. If nearly everyone can tell whether they got the drug, expectancy becomes a pretty nasty confound
- pantalaimon 2mo ago
  It's 5-MeO-DMT, better to synthesize it than to exploit the toads for it though. https://youtu.be/qipKKBmY_LQ https://youtu.be/qipKKBmY_LQ
  - dylan604 2mo ago
    In the DMT world, carts are being sold known as Toad with the 5-MeO-DMT. Lots of very unhappy customers when they are not expecting it.
    - foobiekr 2mo ago
      I wish this was true in the Bay Area. 5-MeO-DMT does not seem to be available and it’s supposedly a unique experience.
      - NDlurker 2mo ago
        Start going to festivals?
      - pixel_popping 2mo ago
        You can just order domestic US.
    - temp0826 2mo ago
      I seriously don't know who would be unhappy about it. Pure 5-meo is a more reliable experience and no endangered toads need to be harmed. I don't know that one would even be able to liquify straight bufo properly to put in a cart for one...also pure 5-meo is maybe 3-5x more potent per weight so that probably makes it all easier too. Anyone pulling the "butttt it's unnaturalllll" card on this one is a fool.
      - throwup238 2mo ago
        Is anyone even getting it from toads anymore? 20 years ago it was cheap to synthesize and get from the research chemical market along with the 2Cs and friends. I haven’t done any drugs in a decade so I don’t know how hard it is to get now but I doubt an enterprising internet sleuth would have a hard time finding a source.
solomonb 2mo ago
Can we please leave the fucking toads alone? This is an endangered species getting massively abused by the wellness "shaman" industry. It fucking sucks. Just use synthetic 5me0-dmt if you really must do a goofy vision quest larp.
- martinky24 2mo ago
  Hmm. I am all for leaving animals alone, but their Wikipedia page says their status is “secure” and of “least concern”. So yeah, let the frogs be, but I don’t think we should invent (hallucinate, in this case, perhaps?) reasons why…
  - solomonb 2mo ago
    okay maybe i was wrong about them being technically endangered, i misread that somewhere. Still doesn't change the fact that we shouldn't be abusing animals to have pseudo-intellectual psychedelic experiences.
    - throwaway_7274 2mo ago
      Your may have been thinking of peyote, which is somewhat endangered, and widely poached.
mjmsmith 2mo ago
Recently published, curious if anyone has read it: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/735472/the-ego-trip-by-kimon-de-greef/ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/735472/the-ego-trip...
- cammikebrown 2mo ago
  He wrote a nice New Yorker article a few years ago: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/03/28/the-pied-piper-of-psychedelic-toads https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/03/28/the-pied-piper...
martinky24 2mo ago
Every time I find one of these in my backyard with my dog, I have to spray my dog’s mouth out with the hose for 5 minutes. Psychedelic, but also very toxic.
- nxpnsv 2mo ago
  Just my local regular non hallucinogenic toads makes dogs drewl like crazy if they try to catch on (or more commonly find a toad chip road kill on the gravel roads)
- dreamcompiler 2mo ago
  Reminds me of the datura all over my yard. I keep chopping them down (while wearing gloves) but they keep coming back. They're pretty but definitely a "look, don't eat" plant.
  - NDlurker 2mo ago
    The datura trip reports on Erowid were my favorite. Such a weird plant.
    - tetec1 2mo ago
      They’re for sure a good reminder not to fuck with datura, ever.
  - NewJazz 2mo ago
    Isn't the root the harmful part?
- eleveriven 2mo ago
  Yeah, "psychedelic toad" sounds a lot more whimsical until you actually live somewhere they show up in the backyard
bassiee 2mo ago
HAMILTON,BUFOTENINE YOU NEED TO MAKE A VIDEO. xD Anyone watch Hamiltons pharmacopeia
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- dennis_jeeves2 2mo ago
  I do.
- anonme4ever 2mo ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAg5kAcw-TA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAg5kAcw-TA
RajT88 2mo ago
Find your soulmate, Homer!
juleiie 2mo ago
People really overthink drugs. You don't need anything more than psilocybin and some weed from time to time. Anything else is just unnecessary noise and introduces vulnerabilities to your Fortress of Mind. Backdoor here, trapdoor here, tunnel there. Before you know it, your psyche collapses under all the brain neuroplasticity. Mind cannot form any shape at all. Truly terrible thought so be careful my people. Don't malleableize yourself into a goo.
- natpalmer1776 2mo ago
  YMMV by person, their neurochemistry, and their living environment. I need a stimulant for my specific biology to adapt to modern expectations.
  - juleiie 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 2mo ago
      [deleted]
    - jdanford 2mo ago
      Your comment isn’t useful to anyone but you
      - thin_carapace 2mo ago
        I also think that the system is cruel to convince its cogs that it is acceptable to experience stress to the point of requiring hard drugs, and I think the person you're responding to has provided a valid counter example of what life can be like without such stress.
        natpalmer1776 2mo ago
        Except I don’t use “hard drugs” I use a dose of Adderall prescribed to children to correct a specific chemical imbalance that is exceptionally well documented. I could, and did for a while, live without such medication and my basic quality of life was significantly worse. Not because of society, but because of my brain. I am the person being told that I don’t need a stimulant by the condescending rich person, and I have to say that mental health is far too nuanced for casual armchair debate about how society is forcing people to need this drug or that drug. The point I wanted to convey is that this topic is incredibly specific to the individual, and “generalizations” MUST use extensive qualifiers to even come close to being accurate.
SpikedCola 2mo ago
Hamilton's Pharmacopia covers this topic, including an interview with the supposed author, then later corrected, then the true author revealed. Definitely worth checking out.
- embedding-shape 2mo ago
  I think this is the full episode, not sure what regions it's available but I could see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAg5kAcw-TA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAg5kAcw-TA
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
hackernudes 2mo ago
I'm guessing this is here because it was featured on an episode of Beef Season 2 from Netflix.
tristanMatthias 2mo ago
I've tried this before and it was an incredibly profound experience. Happy to answer questions if folks have any.
- Aboutplants 2mo ago
  Were there long term positive (or negative for that matter) after effects that persisted either for some time or set a new baseline for you?
  - tristanMatthias 2mo ago
    Yeah see my comment above. Life felt like I was in a dream state after. Still does if I drop back into that place and let go of the narratives of modern life. It really gives me a new perspective on "maya" as the hindus refer to it as. The "veil of illusion" that we find ourselves in. Not at all to say that I'm disengaged or disconnected. I still live a full and happy life. But I don't take it seriously anymore. I'm reminded of Oscar Wilde's quote > Life is too important to be taken seriously.
- ceroxylon 2mo ago
  Have you compared it to the synthetic 5-MeO-DMT experience and if so, is there a noticeable difference in your experience?
  - sitzkrieg 2mo ago
    i have been fortunate enough to, identical experience
  - tristanMatthias 2mo ago
    I have not but I would be very curious to see if there is any!
- Rzor 2mo ago
  Have you ever tried mushrooms? If so, can you compare the experiences?
eleveriven 2mo ago
How a tiny self-published pamphlet apparently created a whole practice that was later documented as if it had some deeper historical tradition behind it
pvaldes 2mo ago
2019. "A forensic report concluded that the mix of the venom extracted from the toad and the cocaine had a deadly effect on Jose Luis Abad. The photographer suffered a stroke after taking the drug on a shamanic ritual gone wrong and was dead within minutes" https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/06/03/spains-most-famous-porn-star-killed-photographer-with-toad-poison-in-shamanic-ritual-gone-wrong/ https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/06/03/spains-mo... https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2023/05/09/court-drops-charges-against-spanish-ex-porn-star-nacho-vidal-for-death-of-photographer-during-toad-venom-ritual/ https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2023/05/09/court-dro...
- kakacik 2mo ago
  Spread across 8 billions and any intense activity will have many associated deaths. Care to know how many people die yearly from ie hiking? Estimates are in low thousands. Some are from heart attacks. And don't get me started with sexual activities...
  - pvaldes 2mo ago
    Thanks for warning about the dangers of hiking or having sex, but just because people can die by multiple reasons does not make this toxin one inch safer. If the pros are discussed, the cons should be discussed also. The number of people that has sexual activities repeatedly for three decades without dying is still much bigger than the number of people that licks toads repeatedly for three years without dying. One activity has been much more tested than the other.
sans_souse 2mo ago
https://archive.org/details/toad_20230808/page/n2/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/toad_20230808/page/n2/mode/1up link to the digitized scan

Completely fascinating video on this topic just recently: https://www.wsj.com/video/the-race-to-commercialize-the-worlds-most-powerful-psychedelic/F24E9B22-38D3-4BFC-B80A-3B5F73423E0C https://www.wsj.com/video/the-race-to-commercialize-the-worl...

octoberfranklin 2mo ago
Link is broken: Access is temporarily restricted We detected unusual activity from your device or network. Reasons may include: Rapid taps or clicks JavaScript disabled or not working Automated (bot) activity on your network Use of developer or inspection tools Need help? Submit feedback.

mettamage 2mo ago

Have any studies been done on this particular psychedelic? I'm curious.

throawayonthe 2mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-MeO-DMT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5-MeO-DMT has some references and the "further reading" links might have way more
ulrikrasmussen 2mo ago
Most recent I know of: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/blp-003-for-treatment-resistant-depression-phase-2b-patient-enrollment-completed https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/blp-003-for-treatment-... Mebufotenin is 5-MeO-DMT
john_strinlai 2mo ago
plenty of scientific and not-really-scientific links available at erowid for 5-meo-dmt https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/5meo_dmt/5meo_dmt.shtml https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/5meo_dmt/5meo_dmt.shtml scientific references specifically at https://www.erowid.org/references/refs.php?S=5meo_dmt https://www.erowid.org/references/refs.php?S=5meo_dmt
Aurornis 2mo ago
A couple groups are trying to commercialize it. There have been some trials, but they're all relatively limited by depression trial standards. Double-blind is impossible because the participants know 100% if they've received it or not. Someone volunteering to sign up for a depression study to receive psychedelic drugs is probably a believer that they work, so the placebo groups end up disappointed and the active groups are happy they got assigned the psychedelic they signed up. One of the latest studies: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2846834 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/... They followed participants for 8 days, which is pretty disappointing. They really need to follow people for several months to see if anything holds or if it's a short-term placebo effect that wears off.
- eleveriven 2mo ago
  This seems like one of those areas where "double-blind randomized trial" sounds much cleaner on paper than it actually is. If nearly everyone can tell whether they got the drug, expectancy becomes a pretty nasty confound
pantalaimon 2mo ago
It's 5-MeO-DMT, better to synthesize it than to exploit the toads for it though. https://youtu.be/qipKKBmY_LQ https://youtu.be/qipKKBmY_LQ
- dylan604 2mo ago
  In the DMT world, carts are being sold known as Toad with the 5-MeO-DMT. Lots of very unhappy customers when they are not expecting it.
  - foobiekr 2mo ago
    I wish this was true in the Bay Area. 5-MeO-DMT does not seem to be available and it’s supposedly a unique experience.
    - NDlurker 2mo ago
      Start going to festivals?
    - pixel_popping 2mo ago
      You can just order domestic US.
  - temp0826 2mo ago
    I seriously don't know who would be unhappy about it. Pure 5-meo is a more reliable experience and no endangered toads need to be harmed. I don't know that one would even be able to liquify straight bufo properly to put in a cart for one...also pure 5-meo is maybe 3-5x more potent per weight so that probably makes it all easier too. Anyone pulling the "butttt it's unnaturalllll" card on this one is a fool.
    - throwup238 2mo ago
      Is anyone even getting it from toads anymore? 20 years ago it was cheap to synthesize and get from the research chemical market along with the 2Cs and friends. I haven’t done any drugs in a decade so I don’t know how hard it is to get now but I doubt an enterprising internet sleuth would have a hard time finding a source.

solomonb 2mo ago

Can we please leave the fucking toads alone? This is an endangered species getting massively abused by the wellness "shaman" industry. It fucking sucks. Just use synthetic 5me0-dmt if you really must do a goofy vision quest larp.

martinky24 2mo ago
Hmm. I am all for leaving animals alone, but their Wikipedia page says their status is “secure” and of “least concern”. So yeah, let the frogs be, but I don’t think we should invent (hallucinate, in this case, perhaps?) reasons why…
- solomonb 2mo ago
  okay maybe i was wrong about them being technically endangered, i misread that somewhere. Still doesn't change the fact that we shouldn't be abusing animals to have pseudo-intellectual psychedelic experiences.
  - throwaway_7274 2mo ago
    Your may have been thinking of peyote, which is somewhat endangered, and widely poached.

mjmsmith 2mo ago

Recently published, curious if anyone has read it: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/735472/the-ego-trip-by-kimon-de-greef/ https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/735472/the-ego-trip...

cammikebrown 2mo ago
He wrote a nice New Yorker article a few years ago: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/03/28/the-pied-piper-of-psychedelic-toads https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/03/28/the-pied-piper...

martinky24 2mo ago

Every time I find one of these in my backyard with my dog, I have to spray my dog’s mouth out with the hose for 5 minutes. Psychedelic, but also very toxic.

nxpnsv 2mo ago
Just my local regular non hallucinogenic toads makes dogs drewl like crazy if they try to catch on (or more commonly find a toad chip road kill on the gravel roads)
dreamcompiler 2mo ago
Reminds me of the datura all over my yard. I keep chopping them down (while wearing gloves) but they keep coming back. They're pretty but definitely a "look, don't eat" plant.
- NDlurker 2mo ago
  The datura trip reports on Erowid were my favorite. Such a weird plant.
  - tetec1 2mo ago
    They’re for sure a good reminder not to fuck with datura, ever.
- NewJazz 2mo ago
  Isn't the root the harmful part?
eleveriven 2mo ago
Yeah, "psychedelic toad" sounds a lot more whimsical until you actually live somewhere they show up in the backyard

bassiee 2mo ago

HAMILTON,BUFOTENINE YOU NEED TO MAKE A VIDEO. xD Anyone watch Hamiltons pharmacopeia

deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
dennis_jeeves2 2mo ago
I do.
anonme4ever 2mo ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAg5kAcw-TA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAg5kAcw-TA

RajT88 2mo ago

Find your soulmate, Homer!

juleiie 2mo ago

People really overthink drugs. You don't need anything more than psilocybin and some weed from time to time. Anything else is just unnecessary noise and introduces vulnerabilities to your Fortress of Mind. Backdoor here, trapdoor here, tunnel there. Before you know it, your psyche collapses under all the brain neuroplasticity. Mind cannot form any shape at all. Truly terrible thought so be careful my people. Don't malleableize yourself into a goo.

natpalmer1776 2mo ago
YMMV by person, their neurochemistry, and their living environment. I need a stimulant for my specific biology to adapt to modern expectations.
- juleiie 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  - jdanford 2mo ago
    Your comment isn’t useful to anyone but you
    - thin_carapace 2mo ago
      I also think that the system is cruel to convince its cogs that it is acceptable to experience stress to the point of requiring hard drugs, and I think the person you're responding to has provided a valid counter example of what life can be like without such stress.
      - natpalmer1776 2mo ago
        Except I don’t use “hard drugs” I use a dose of Adderall prescribed to children to correct a specific chemical imbalance that is exceptionally well documented. I could, and did for a while, live without such medication and my basic quality of life was significantly worse. Not because of society, but because of my brain. I am the person being told that I don’t need a stimulant by the condescending rich person, and I have to say that mental health is far too nuanced for casual armchair debate about how society is forcing people to need this drug or that drug. The point I wanted to convey is that this topic is incredibly specific to the individual, and “generalizations” MUST use extensive qualifiers to even come close to being accurate.

SpikedCola 2mo ago

Hamilton's Pharmacopia covers this topic, including an interview with the supposed author, then later corrected, then the true author revealed. Definitely worth checking out.

embedding-shape 2mo ago
I think this is the full episode, not sure what regions it's available but I could see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAg5kAcw-TA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAg5kAcw-TA

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

hackernudes 2mo ago

I'm guessing this is here because it was featured on an episode of Beef Season 2 from Netflix.

tristanMatthias 2mo ago

I've tried this before and it was an incredibly profound experience. Happy to answer questions if folks have any.

Aboutplants 2mo ago
Were there long term positive (or negative for that matter) after effects that persisted either for some time or set a new baseline for you?
- tristanMatthias 2mo ago
  Yeah see my comment above. Life felt like I was in a dream state after. Still does if I drop back into that place and let go of the narratives of modern life. It really gives me a new perspective on "maya" as the hindus refer to it as. The "veil of illusion" that we find ourselves in. Not at all to say that I'm disengaged or disconnected. I still live a full and happy life. But I don't take it seriously anymore. I'm reminded of Oscar Wilde's quote > Life is too important to be taken seriously.
ceroxylon 2mo ago
Have you compared it to the synthetic 5-MeO-DMT experience and if so, is there a noticeable difference in your experience?
- sitzkrieg 2mo ago
  i have been fortunate enough to, identical experience
- tristanMatthias 2mo ago
  I have not but I would be very curious to see if there is any!
Rzor 2mo ago
Have you ever tried mushrooms? If so, can you compare the experiences?

eleveriven 2mo ago

How a tiny self-published pamphlet apparently created a whole practice that was later documented as if it had some deeper historical tradition behind it

pvaldes 2mo ago

2019. "A forensic report concluded that the mix of the venom extracted from the toad and the cocaine had a deadly effect on Jose Luis Abad. The photographer suffered a stroke after taking the drug on a shamanic ritual gone wrong and was dead within minutes" https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/06/03/spains-most-famous-porn-star-killed-photographer-with-toad-poison-in-shamanic-ritual-gone-wrong/ https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/06/03/spains-mo... https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2023/05/09/court-drops-charges-against-spanish-ex-porn-star-nacho-vidal-for-death-of-photographer-during-toad-venom-ritual/ https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2023/05/09/court-dro...

kakacik 2mo ago
Spread across 8 billions and any intense activity will have many associated deaths. Care to know how many people die yearly from ie hiking? Estimates are in low thousands. Some are from heart attacks. And don't get me started with sexual activities...
- pvaldes 2mo ago
  Thanks for warning about the dangers of hiking or having sex, but just because people can die by multiple reasons does not make this toxin one inch safer. If the pros are discussed, the cons should be discussed also. The number of people that has sexual activities repeatedly for three decades without dying is still much bigger than the number of people that licks toads repeatedly for three years without dying. One activity has been much more tested than the other.

sans_souse 2mo ago

https://archive.org/details/toad_20230808/page/n2/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/toad_20230808/page/n2/mode/1up link to the digitized scan