5 ms·

Solid state batteries come in several flavours. Most of them don't stop dendrites. The flavour you want is polymer, single ion conducting solid state with an i

Solid state batteries come in several flavours. Most of them don't stop dendrites. The flavour you want is polymer, single ion conducting solid state with an ion transport activation energy below 10kJ/mol at room temperature and no phase transitions from -40C to 80C. That is the holy grail of SS batteries.

rawgabbit 2mo ago
Are anyone building the battery you described?
- jdiff 2mo ago
  No. The holy grail goes undiscovered for now.
  - j45 2mo ago
    Seems to be some progress on learning more about it: https://news.mit.edu/2026/discovery-helps-explain-why-solid-state-batteries-often-fail-0706 https://news.mit.edu/2026/discovery-helps-explain-why-solid-...
- moffkalast 2mo ago
  Aliens somewhere, presumably.
  - Razengan 2mo ago
    Isn't their tech powered by portable black holes?
    - moffkalast 2mo ago
      The regulatory approval for those is just too expensive in practice. I mean you blow up one star due to cost cutting and nobody trusts the tech ever again...
      - marmakoide 2mo ago
        This is ridiculous, there are plenty of stars and most of them are red dwarfs with tidally locked rocks blasted by flares anyway
      - inigyou 2mo ago
        But that was a Joviet power plant with a severe design flaw. They had a foot of up-quark matter at the bottom of their control rods, which increased the reaction rate for a brief moment after the emergency ABSCOND button was pressed. Plus, they were running the reactor at dangerously low graviton flux levels, leading to a pion buildup, during a shift change. Everyone knows those Joviets can't do anything right. Our Amearthican designs would never have such flaws. They are completely safe, and several are operating around the galaxy already, producing hundreds of exawatts. Unlike the stellar panels recommended by those ill-advised "environmentalists" which can't work in nebula weather, or helioshock plasma turbines that rely on the stellar wind, our plants provide a sustainable base load in all conditions.
        TeMPOraL 2mo ago
        The problem was that the science behind those fancy power plants of yours is so complicated, the rest of the galaxy found it easier to just oxidize biomass, and are now scouring every known sector for M-class planets they haven't yet strip-mined from all organic matter. I say was, because the current problem is that those "environmentalists" you mentioned managed to scare remaining interstellar governments away from this technology, which made them double down on biomass extraction.
      - HappMacDonald 2mo ago
        I love how Carter blows up a star system, and then later McKay blows up 5/6ths of a star system which it turns out is deeply more complicated to pull off. On the other hand Carter did what she set out to do while McKay fscked up and wasn't trying to blow anything up, so there is also that.
    - thebruce87m 2mo ago
      AA battery size is black holes. Can’t quite get the technology to scale for AAA so you still have to swap the TV remote.
  - pseudohadamard 2mo ago
    Well technically those are zero point modules, not really batteries.
    - inigyou 2mo ago
      If you can extract some energy then by definition it is not zero-point energy.
      - gadflyinyoureye 2mo ago
        I presume that was a Stargate reference. Zero Point Module, often abbreviated ZPM, is a power source, created by the Ancients, capable of supplying tremendous amounts of energy. It is one of the most formidable power sources known to exist, having been developed by the Ancients several million years ago during their reign of the Milky Way galaxy https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Zero_Point_Module https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Zero_Point_Module
        pseudohadamard 2mo ago
        They use crystals, and quantum, so they're obviously the real deal.
        moffkalast 2mo ago
        We should star calling silicon chips crystals, we'll sound much more legit on the galactic level.
        ben_w 2mo ago
        (If you will permit the fanfic): Carter: I've finished comparing Goa'uld control crystals, all that glow is completely unnecessary. O'Neill: So they added lights inside closed boxes because…? Teal'c: The Goa'uld have always favoured displays of grandeur over practicality. O'Neill: Hold on. You're telling me the galaxy's self-proclaimed gods are flying around in gamer motherboards? Carter: Sir… Daniel: No, I think Jack's right. O'Neill: I am? Daniel: Glowing lights everywhere, gold trim, needlessly dramatic startup sequence. And they definitely treat us as pawns in their games. Teal'c: Indeed.
- NuclearPM 2mo ago
  Is anyone.
lightedman 2mo ago
"no phase transitions from -40C to 80C." Well that's fine for terrestrial use but aerospace needs that range to be expanded a little in both directions, otherwise it won't be much of a holy grail if it won't cover the needs of one of the largest growing industries.
- vitally3643 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - bracketfocus 2mo ago
    To be fair, the poster said “holy grail” which implies perfection.
    - nerdsniper 2mo ago
      Absolutely. No idea what’s going on with these downvotes.
  - lightedman 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    - gambiting 2mo ago
      How does someone with such short temper get to work in the aerospace industry? You know we are just a bunch of random strangers on the internet and telling someone to "sit down" just comes across as funny more than authoritative. And I don't think telling someone "I know exactly what the fuck I'm speaking of" has ever had the desired effect on the internet, it just screams insecure - if you're really an expert make it show through your words not by trying to intimidate people.
      - lightedman 2mo ago
        "How does someone with such short temper get to work in the aerospace industry?" My temper is very even. I simply do not tolerate bullshit from nobodies who are speaking garbage. And I get to work in aerospace because it seems that out of the millions of people that tried to get my job I'm the only one with the relevant mixed-domain expertise to realize what a company wants to do and get it done. I have hardware in orbit, I can with 4-sigma certainty guarantee the poster trying to chide me does not.
jarbus 2mo ago
I’m still a novice on the material science behind it, but what is QuantumScape lacking here if anything, and why is it a dealbreaker?
- dirck-norman 2mo ago
  The only thing different from this list is the ceramic separator. It’s not polymer. However, the ceramic is ultra thin to the point that it’s flexible so volume expansion isn’t a problem and it solves the dendrite problem. Perhaps a polymer will be invented that can’t be pierced by dendrites. But existing polymers need to be heated for ion transfer efficiency and are combustable. Technically, QuantumScape also uses an organic liquid catholyte inside the cathode. So it’s not “pure” solid state.
BiraIgnacio 2mo ago
> The flavour you want is polymer, single ion conducting solid state with an ion transport activation energy below 10kJ/mol at room temperature and no phase transitions from -40C to 80C. what makes it so? I don't know anything about this subject, I'm really curious now about what the perfect battery would be.
- marcosdumay 2mo ago
  No idea why polymer single ion conducting would stop dendrites (I know people are looking for it, I don't know why). But 10kJ/mol of activation energy is another way of saying less than 100mV of internal loses, and avoiding phase transitions means that your battery won't stop working on that temperature range.
agumonkey 2mo ago
their benefit boiled down (sic) to flammability, or the lack thereof, right ?
stronglikedan 2mo ago
I'll just take one that charges at ridiculous speeds and can't burn my house down. I wish BYD could bring their new infra to the US - it looks pretty ::ahem:: solid!
- aeonik 2mo ago
  Lithium Titanate batteries can do this now, somewhat. I have some 35 Ah batteries that claim they can charge in 9 minutes (compared to traditional Lithium Ion, that would take hours). I don't have a charger that can supply the necessary 350 Amps though. They also have ridiculous amount of charge cycles. 10x higher than regular Lithium Ion IIRC. They are more expensive and are larger and heavier for the same stored energy though. And, while they CAN still catch fire, they are apparently way harder to do so.

rawgabbit 2mo ago

Are anyone building the battery you described?

jdiff 2mo ago
No. The holy grail goes undiscovered for now.
- j45 2mo ago
  Seems to be some progress on learning more about it: https://news.mit.edu/2026/discovery-helps-explain-why-solid-state-batteries-often-fail-0706 https://news.mit.edu/2026/discovery-helps-explain-why-solid-...
moffkalast 2mo ago
Aliens somewhere, presumably.
- Razengan 2mo ago
  Isn't their tech powered by portable black holes?
  - moffkalast 2mo ago
    The regulatory approval for those is just too expensive in practice. I mean you blow up one star due to cost cutting and nobody trusts the tech ever again...
    - marmakoide 2mo ago
      This is ridiculous, there are plenty of stars and most of them are red dwarfs with tidally locked rocks blasted by flares anyway
    - inigyou 2mo ago
      But that was a Joviet power plant with a severe design flaw. They had a foot of up-quark matter at the bottom of their control rods, which increased the reaction rate for a brief moment after the emergency ABSCOND button was pressed. Plus, they were running the reactor at dangerously low graviton flux levels, leading to a pion buildup, during a shift change. Everyone knows those Joviets can't do anything right. Our Amearthican designs would never have such flaws. They are completely safe, and several are operating around the galaxy already, producing hundreds of exawatts. Unlike the stellar panels recommended by those ill-advised "environmentalists" which can't work in nebula weather, or helioshock plasma turbines that rely on the stellar wind, our plants provide a sustainable base load in all conditions.
      - TeMPOraL 2mo ago
        The problem was that the science behind those fancy power plants of yours is so complicated, the rest of the galaxy found it easier to just oxidize biomass, and are now scouring every known sector for M-class planets they haven't yet strip-mined from all organic matter. I say was, because the current problem is that those "environmentalists" you mentioned managed to scare remaining interstellar governments away from this technology, which made them double down on biomass extraction.
    - HappMacDonald 2mo ago
      I love how Carter blows up a star system, and then later McKay blows up 5/6ths of a star system which it turns out is deeply more complicated to pull off. On the other hand Carter did what she set out to do while McKay fscked up and wasn't trying to blow anything up, so there is also that.
  - thebruce87m 2mo ago
    AA battery size is black holes. Can’t quite get the technology to scale for AAA so you still have to swap the TV remote.
- pseudohadamard 2mo ago
  Well technically those are zero point modules, not really batteries.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    If you can extract some energy then by definition it is not zero-point energy.
    - gadflyinyoureye 2mo ago
      I presume that was a Stargate reference. Zero Point Module, often abbreviated ZPM, is a power source, created by the Ancients, capable of supplying tremendous amounts of energy. It is one of the most formidable power sources known to exist, having been developed by the Ancients several million years ago during their reign of the Milky Way galaxy https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Zero_Point_Module https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Zero_Point_Module
      - pseudohadamard 2mo ago
        They use crystals, and quantum, so they're obviously the real deal.
        moffkalast 2mo ago
        We should star calling silicon chips crystals, we'll sound much more legit on the galactic level.
        ben_w 2mo ago
        (If you will permit the fanfic): Carter: I've finished comparing Goa'uld control crystals, all that glow is completely unnecessary. O'Neill: So they added lights inside closed boxes because…? Teal'c: The Goa'uld have always favoured displays of grandeur over practicality. O'Neill: Hold on. You're telling me the galaxy's self-proclaimed gods are flying around in gamer motherboards? Carter: Sir… Daniel: No, I think Jack's right. O'Neill: I am? Daniel: Glowing lights everywhere, gold trim, needlessly dramatic startup sequence. And they definitely treat us as pawns in their games. Teal'c: Indeed.
NuclearPM 2mo ago
Is anyone.

lightedman 2mo ago

"no phase transitions from -40C to 80C." Well that's fine for terrestrial use but aerospace needs that range to be expanded a little in both directions, otherwise it won't be much of a holy grail if it won't cover the needs of one of the largest growing industries.

vitally3643 2mo ago
[flagged]
- bracketfocus 2mo ago
  To be fair, the poster said “holy grail” which implies perfection.
  - nerdsniper 2mo ago
    Absolutely. No idea what’s going on with these downvotes.
- lightedman 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - gambiting 2mo ago
    How does someone with such short temper get to work in the aerospace industry? You know we are just a bunch of random strangers on the internet and telling someone to "sit down" just comes across as funny more than authoritative. And I don't think telling someone "I know exactly what the fuck I'm speaking of" has ever had the desired effect on the internet, it just screams insecure - if you're really an expert make it show through your words not by trying to intimidate people.
    - lightedman 2mo ago
      "How does someone with such short temper get to work in the aerospace industry?" My temper is very even. I simply do not tolerate bullshit from nobodies who are speaking garbage. And I get to work in aerospace because it seems that out of the millions of people that tried to get my job I'm the only one with the relevant mixed-domain expertise to realize what a company wants to do and get it done. I have hardware in orbit, I can with 4-sigma certainty guarantee the poster trying to chide me does not.

jarbus 2mo ago

I’m still a novice on the material science behind it, but what is QuantumScape lacking here if anything, and why is it a dealbreaker?

dirck-norman 2mo ago
The only thing different from this list is the ceramic separator. It’s not polymer. However, the ceramic is ultra thin to the point that it’s flexible so volume expansion isn’t a problem and it solves the dendrite problem. Perhaps a polymer will be invented that can’t be pierced by dendrites. But existing polymers need to be heated for ion transfer efficiency and are combustable. Technically, QuantumScape also uses an organic liquid catholyte inside the cathode. So it’s not “pure” solid state.

BiraIgnacio 2mo ago

> The flavour you want is polymer, single ion conducting solid state with an ion transport activation energy below 10kJ/mol at room temperature and no phase transitions from -40C to 80C. what makes it so? I don't know anything about this subject, I'm really curious now about what the perfect battery would be.

marcosdumay 2mo ago
No idea why polymer single ion conducting would stop dendrites (I know people are looking for it, I don't know why). But 10kJ/mol of activation energy is another way of saying less than 100mV of internal loses, and avoiding phase transitions means that your battery won't stop working on that temperature range.

agumonkey 2mo ago

their benefit boiled down (sic) to flammability, or the lack thereof, right ?

stronglikedan 2mo ago

I'll just take one that charges at ridiculous speeds and can't burn my house down. I wish BYD could bring their new infra to the US - it looks pretty ::ahem:: solid!

aeonik 2mo ago
Lithium Titanate batteries can do this now, somewhat. I have some 35 Ah batteries that claim they can charge in 9 minutes (compared to traditional Lithium Ion, that would take hours). I don't have a charger that can supply the necessary 350 Amps though. They also have ridiculous amount of charge cycles. 10x higher than regular Lithium Ion IIRC. They are more expensive and are larger and heavier for the same stored energy though. And, while they CAN still catch fire, they are apparently way harder to do so.