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National Security Determination Threat Posed by Foreign-Produced Robotic Devices [pdf]
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- AIorNot 2mo agoSay goodbye to robots just like EVs Thanks Trump
- grosswait 2mo agoHow do you think a responsible administration, members of your party of choice, would differ on this matter? Or EVs?
- bix6 2mo agoMaybe by not being the most blatantly corrupt assholes of all time?
- mapontosevenths 2mo agoPerhaps by thinking more than zero steps ahead. An administration filled with people who read books that don't have pictures might, for example, consider the chilling effects this anti-free market, anto-competitive nonsense will have on our economy and the economies of our allies. They might even consider two steps into the very near future and realize that the last nations to automate will become the poorest nations almost overnight, and be forced to watch as the price of good declines for the entire world except their shifty, isolated, tariffed, backwater. Heck, such and administration might even have a few scientists and economists left employed who could advise them, having not just forced many of the best and brightest to flee to more enlightened parts of the world just to stay employed or live in a places that don't treat inconvenient truths as blasphemy.
- tw1984 2mo agoit is a real threat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xha2TJ_1C6Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xha2TJ_1C6Q
- nexus6 2mo agoVery cool, but video looks accelerated and something about the robot shading/lighting gives it a rendered feel.
- gowld 2mo agoThat video clearly states that they have always placed great emphasis on product safety and information security, and that they kindly request that all users refrain from making dangerous modifications or using the robot in a hazardous manner.
- ghlancet 2mo agoThe video looks fake or at least enhanced. A net or a bucket of oily sand would disable that annoyance.
- Georgelemental 2mo ago> In response to this threat, the White House convened an executive branch interagency body with appropriate national security expertise, see 47 U.S.C. § 1601(c)(1), comprising agencies that included appropriate national security agencies, id. § 1601(c)(4), which determined jointly and severally that: All foreign-produced advanced robotic devices pose an unacceptable risk to the national security of the United States and to the safety and security of U.S. persons and should be included on the FCC’s Covered List, unless the Department of War (DOW) transmits to the FCC a specific determination that a given foreign-produced advanced robotic device, or a class of such devices, does not pose such risks. The interagency group and the agencies comprising it determined that foreign-produced advanced robotic devices presented the specific unacceptable risks of (a) posing a supply chain vulnerability that could disrupt U.S. economic and national security, and (b) creating a cybersecurity risk that threatens the security of critical infrastructure and thus the safety and security of U.S. persons. > > To facilitate this transition period, entities that produce advanced robotic devices in a foreign country are encouraged to apply for Conditional Approvals (Annex A) which, if approved, will allow such producers to continue to receive FCC authorization for their products while they work to onshore manufacturing and address the U.S. government’s national security concerns described above.
- bilbo-b-baggins 2mo ago> executive branch interagency body with appropriate national security expertise Pete and his drinking buddies, probably.
- randusername 2mo agoI have to point out how deeply unserious it is that the following line... > As the technology matures, advanced robotic devices have growing use cases in monitoring and securing critical infrastructure. ...cites: 'Secret Service uses robot dogs to guard Trump's Mar-a-Lago in FL' as reported in the Palm Beach Daily News
- LoganDark 2mo agoThis makes me wonder if we've ever had any evidence that "onshore manufacturing" prevents or even lessens foreign backdoors or security vulnerabilities. Honestly, to me it seems like onshore manufacturers are generally far more clueless than they have any right to be, so it's highly unlikely that they could both write materially better code and act as any meaningful barrier to internal compromise.
- cingraa 2mo ago"foreign backdoors" and "security vulnerabilities". Both are an worn-out excuse, not some real concern. Gaslighting as a policy.
- fhub 2mo ago[dead]
- LoganDark 2mo agoI'm sure most people who've ever said it were not talking about actual cases, only decoy reasons to get people worried about it and justify actions about it. But both things do exist: foreign backdoors (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA8WuXDXfcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA8WuXDXfcI) and security vulnerabilities (too many router, smart TV, streaming box etc. botnets to count). Not to mention the backdoors and security vulnerabilities that aren't foreign (e.g. Tesla vehicles). But I think both such things talked about in this announcement are complete bullshit, yes
- hn_submit 2mo agoApple is a case in point. It designs and engineers everything and stringently checks that its Chinese ODMs aren't quietly swapping in cheaper inferior parts or alter its software. I therefore assume Apple products are safe even though they're manufactured in China. But the fact is that most Western manufacturers are too lazy to develop things themselves and merely slap their label on a Chinese designed and manufactured product. This means that the Chinese could slip in anything in the hard/software which creates a huge security liability.
- Lendal 2mo agoThe irony is this will harm US manufacturing, not help it. Manufacturing is the sector that most depends on robotics. Companies will now have to sue the administration so they can continue operations without this new regulatory hindrance. I thought this president was supposed to eliminate regulations, not impose newer and stupider ones.
- logicchains 2mo agoIt will harm it even more by not subjecting it to competition, so it becomes bloated and uncompetitive like the US car and shipbuilding industries.
- mapontosevenths 2mo agoSure, our technology is worse, but at least it's expensive.
- kotaKat 2mo agoThis is just a false-flag campaign planted by the UAW to ensure the slovenly can keep their jobs another couple years instead of actually be held to task for poor American manufacturing build quality. ;)
- anticorporate 2mo agoWhen you can't blame the machines, pretend the workers on the lowest rungs are machines and blame them instead.
- 999900000999 2mo agoAmerica doesn’t know how to do anything well aside from manipulate imaginary numbers. Companies buying themselves over and over again. How much of our so called economy is just moving money back and forth…
- KennyBlanken 2mo agoOh, Intel is way ahead of the curve there, friend. See: broken cablemodem chipsets, poor performing cellular modems, multiple generations of desktop ethernet adapters that don't work properly, uncompetitive processors in all but some very specific markets, CPUs that literally fry themselves to death because they couldn't keep up with AMD's advances so the just just kept cranking the voltage and clock speeds...Intel has been a bucket of Fail for a decade and a half. And now the US government owns a not-too-shabby chunk of said Winning company thanks to a Very Stable Genius...
- passwordoops 2mo agoAmazingly ironic that the administration most deeply in bed to the finance sector's bidding is now identifying the result of the finance sector's 50 year push to offshore everything a problem for National security
- gowld 2mo agoIs your definition of "finance sector" "everyone who likes money"?
- Tangurena2 2mo agoI remember a big push by business journals back in the 2000s with claims that "executives who offshore work get 18% greater bonuses than executives who don't".
- AndrewKemendo 2mo agoWould love to see that report if you have a link
- Tangurena2 2mo agoThe office I worked in back then subscribed to lots of business journals. The one I remember the most was Harvard Business Journal. I'm certain that the articles were based on a McKinsey report. I started working there in 2004, so it would have been sometime in the 2000-2006 timeframe. I had a long bus ride, so I would take a couple with me every night to read.
- hn_submit 2mo agoWhy doesn't the U.S. simply ban all Chinese products that have an internet-connected computer in them? That would solve almost all security problems in one strike and force Chinese manufacturers to communicate via Bluetooth and update software through USB sticks or memory cards. The apps communicating with said devices through Bluetooth obviously can't connect to the internet either otherwise there'd still be an avenue for subversion. Just banning one Chinese product category at a time willy nilly doesn't help as there are a zillion other product categories of Chinese stuff with internet connections. From toys (with camera's in them), to refrigerators, power converters, microwaves, televisions to smartphones.
- petesergeant 2mo agoWhy does Ross, the largest Friend, not simply eat the other five?
- eej71 2mo agoWhile that seems helpful it would not be enough. Consider this as a counter example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Olympic_Games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Olympic_Games
- bsenftner 2mo agoGoing one at a time, in small apparently myopic focus is how a politician shakes the lobbyist money tree. "You could be next!"
- jbstack 2mo agoRemoving an internet connection doesn't really solve much when you're talking about autonomous AI-driven robots with vision and hearing. It's a whole different category to toys, refrigerators, etc. My refrigerator isn't going to suddenly pick up a weapon and start attacking things on command. Nor does it have an easy way to receive instructions through side channels. I'm not saying I agree with Trump's policy - but removing internet isn't a solution either.
- hn_submit 2mo ago
- revolvingthrow 2mo agoAh, the newly popular "let's make the policy unusually broad and treat all foreign production as presumptively dangerous, regardless of country, manufacturer or security practices, this way we're more transparent about prioritizing a bribe rather than our stated concerns". > Advanced robotic devices are inherently networked systems which creates broad attack surfaces and leaves them vulnerable to data exfiltration, remote disruption of the physical robot, and dependencies on unsecure over the air updates. Good thing this isn't a concern in ones produced locally.
- ExoticPearTree 2mo ago> Good thing this isn't a concern in ones produced locally. Local ones when not in use are doing the Pledge of Allegiance on a loop.
- Tangurena2 2mo agoI think this policy is another case of projection: "we" are doing this to other countries and we are afraid someone will do it back to us - which is both unfair and illegal.
- WarmWash 2mo ago>Good thing this isn't a concern in ones produced locally. It's not difficult to understand the folly of sharing data and control with your biggest adversary. It's so basic, but people chronically keep tripping on it, intentionally or not. This isn't even something new either, it comes from the cold war where the KGB was excellent at espionage particularly because of their smart leverage of regular people with access to the right things. China isn't dumb either, and they're not sleeping on their treasure trove of Americans data. So sorry you aren't going to get blackmailed instead of shown Toyota ads, but it's a pretty smart move that most with a geopolitical IQ above room temperature can easily grasp.
- lossolo 2mo ago> It's not difficult to understand the folly of sharing data and control with your biggest adversary. It's so basic, but people chronically keep tripping on it, intentionally or not. Like those self driving, remotely controllable Teslas that gather data 24/7, the ones I saw everywhere when I was in China?
- bix6 2mo agoWhy does department of defense, excuse me I mean the illegally named department of war aka cosplayer Hegseth’s wet dream, get put in charge of this? They are properly staffed to review thousands of robots? Hahaha.
- brookst 2mo agoThey can take bribes as effectively as any other department. Actual review of robots is presumably out of scope.
- hgoel 2mo agoThe true intention of all of these seems to mostly be to give the government justification to pick winners and losers. Anyone that bends the knee gets their carveout or special exception, anyone that doesn't gets hit with all sorts of restrictions on top of the randomly applied tariffs. It seems the way to get Americans to embrace a centrally planned economy was to combine unashamed xenophobia with blatant corruption while calling it capitalism.
- cucumber3732842 2mo ago>The true intention of all of these seems to mostly be to give the government justification to pick winners and losers. AlwaysHasBeen.jpg You think the government kicked heavy industry out of the country (to China no less) because they truly believed in short sighted mid 20th century environmentalism? Of course not. They did it because Wall Street stood to make an obscene amount of money piecemeal selling that part of the economy overseas. Environmentalism just provided the excuse and pool of useful idiots from which to build political support.
- tancop 2mo agoi got a better solution. make open firmware and user flashing mandatory. if anyone can inspect the code for backdoors and replace it with brand new software then any security issues go out the window. should apply to domestic products too for good measure.
- functionmouse 2mo agoyea but they don't wanna do that
- diego_moita 2mo agoI see a funny pattern here. England created the Industrial Revolution but barely has any manufacturing these days. The U.S. created several industries (mass car manufacturing, electronics, clothing, etc) but today China produces more than them. They had more than half the worlds' GDP in 1944, they have less than 16% today. They're slowly following England's path.
- tdeck 2mo agoChina has 4x the population of the US, so it's not exactly odd that they would produce more than the US.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- WarmWash 2mo agoIt's just the path of economic development, and the benchmark for "comfortable life" is set by ambient economy of where you live. So once the ambience reaches a level of "advanced degrees and massively leveraged worker impact" it becomes almost impossible to live in that environment on the level of "some school and hand knitting a scarf a day." It's totally intractable when you are competing with someone who generates a scarf of value every 30 seconds.
- mikewarot 2mo agoThat's the "Cantillon Effect"[1] Cantillon suggested that inflation occurs gradually and that the new supply of money has a localised effect on inflation, effectively originating the concept of non-neutral money. Furthermore, he posited that the original recipients of new money enjoy higher standards of living at the expense of later recipients. The concept of relative inflation, or a disproportionate rise in prices among different goods in an economy, is now known as the Cantillon effect. Because we got very good at manufacturing, that brought in hard currency, and raised the standard of living. This then was balanced out by that money then being spend on goods from abroad that used to be sourced locally, hollowing out the manufacturing base. Until the base collapses, and reforms again elsewhere, and the cycle repeats. If the US had competent leadership, they could re-shore things, and benefit from China's upcoming collapse. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cantillon#Monetary_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cantillon#Monetary_the...
- ExoticPearTree 2mo agoI hope there's a plan for local production in the US with all the banning of stuff right, left and center. Soon they'll ban Colombian coffee for being too good and making people want more of it. Or who knows whatever else.
- k12sosse 2mo agoNo plan would be a better alternative to than the plan the current craptocracy would come up with
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- kjjohnsen 2mo agoThere is a threat, but they are exaggerating it. Most of the advanced legged robots are glorified cameras and pack animals and are still in the research phases of implementation. Still, as someone who owns one of these, the amount of black-box software inside them is concerning. It's easy to chalk this up to intellectual property guarding, but who knows... I'd love to purchase *quality* domestically produced legged robots for research, but they are generally nonexistent. All this policy is going to do is hamper our efforts in research, which is a terrible idea if we want to produce a domestic supply chain. I'm sure they had absolutely 0% input from anyone who knows anything about robotics. Rather than this policy, why not simply require a full open source software stack?
- ilaksh 2mo agoRegardless of how you feel about this, it would be good for humanoid robotics in the US to try to catch up a little more. What are they doing to positively encourage that?
- yurish 2mo agoAccess denied for me. Does "foreign-produced" include any country, even in EU?
- rapjr9 2mo agoNote that they also banned Chinese inverters at the same time. Industrial inverters are still made in the US but solar inverters are often made in China. So is this an attack on home solar and solar farms?
- toomuchtodo 2mo agoIts an attack on solar in the aggregate, similar to how they're using DOE must run orders to keep coal plants generating needlessly. Powerplants under DOE emergency orders are producing less energy than before - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49002828 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49002828 - July 2026 > The Department of Energy ordered six power plants to delay their retirements last year. Two of them produced zero electricity in the first quarter of 2026, and another one is now offline for repairs.
- rapjr9 2mo agoThere's some clarification here, see the editors note at the end: https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2026/07/28/fcc-bans-foreign-produced-solar-inverters-grid-lockout-begins-today/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2026/07/28/fcc-bans-foreign-prod... So there won't be an immediate impact on solar inverters, but there might be a long term impact on ease of use (no more OTA firmware updates) or price (made in USA costs more).