4 ms·

Unless the article left something out, the only possible evidence they had was the wrong username. It did. The evidence against him were the messages sent to

Unless the article left something out, the only possible evidence they had was the wrong username. It did. The evidence against him were the messages sent to the girl and the unusual username. It's not like it was John_Smith. It was fairly unique. They couldn't even find evidence that this person used Kik at the time of the crime. The lack of digital evidence is not proof of innocence. It's not proof of anything either way. the wrong username It's very likely the extra underscore was simply glossed over, the way a double space is glossed over. Lawyers aren't generally known for their grasp of computer technology. The lawyer probably saw this a hundred times, thought it was a typo on the subpoena, and didn't put two-and-two together to realize that it was material. After all, the employee at the website could have made the same error but in reverse; assuming that the double underscore was a typo. It's not on the judge, as the judge doesn't go through every piece of evidence checking all the typos; they take the evidence at face value and evaluate its probative value.

oersted 3mo ago
It’s not an unusual username, it is actually quite unoriginal, there are probably thousands of users with variations of the same name. It is the name of the headline magic ability in Skyrim, which is probably among the top ten most popular videogames of the last 25 years.
- dzhiurgis 3mo ago
  Wonder if there are expert witnesses in videogame niche. I have no idea what you are talking about.
  - bryanrasmussen 3mo ago
    I have not idea either, other than I understand it is a common text from a really popular video game. Why wouldn't variations of that be a really common username?
  - oersted 3mo ago
    I understand that certain segments of the population have remained completely disassociated from videogames, and that's fine, but that doesn't make it a niche or an expert topic. Games make significantly more money than movies and TV now. More than 65M people bought Skyrim, and many more millions would recognise Fus-Ro-Dah just from spending time on the Internet anywhere near to gaming circles. The defendant could have told their lawyer and it would have been trivial to research and demonstrate. Not sure what went wrong there.
    - dzhiurgis 3mo ago
      > Games make significantly more money than movies and TV now Don't wanna accuse you of anything, but why would you assume thats an important metric for HN populace. I assume most people here don't own a TV to begin with (personal projection obvs).
      - dafelst 3mo ago
        It's a proxy for reach, which is what GP is talking about.
      - account42 3mo ago
        In $current_year you can watch movies and TV shows without owning a TV.
  - DoctorOetker 3mo ago
    oh no please no, not videogame experts in court... just be sane and force any Cyber attribution link in testimony to present in standardized form (with reference to find explanation) Damerau-Lehvenstein edit distance histogram, cumulative distribution, etc. So that all parties (defendant & lawyers, plaintif & lawyers, judge or if applicable also jury) can trivially read and interpret the data: On this platform we also have 4 users exactly 1 edit away, 15 users exactly 2 edits away,... On this platform we thus also have 4 other users 1 or fewer edits away, 19 users 2 or fewer edits away, ... And I assure you Klayme or whomever would have read this part of the testimony over and over, and pushing his lawyers towards the right questions, that is if they allow themselves to work in the interest of their client, which usually they refuse to do, and just submit straw-man arguments intentionally because everybody wants to go home or have shorter workdays so prosecution and defense lawyers just pre-judge how the cookie should be crumbled, and then nobody has to read anything...
- ButlerianJihad 3mo ago
  Since the introduction of the Skyrim game in 2011, UrbanDictionary has also indicated that the specific phrase is a term for fellatio. Just sayin'
  - account42 3mo ago
    UrbanDictionary has a lot of terms that are maybe used by one friend group who thought it would be funny to add it to the site.
- gamblor956 3mo ago
  It turns out there were exactly two users with that same name. And the man in the story was one of them, which is why this all happened. It is the name of the headline magic ability in Skyrim, which is probably among the top ten most popular videogames of the last 25 years. That can be true and it can still be the case that most people that have played video games have never heard of it, especially on a teen-focused social media platform where most of the users are younger than the game.
jibal 3mo ago
> It was fairly unique. Wrong. And in any case, if they had looked at the message history of the account name that they used to track him down and that was entered into evidence at the trial, they would not have found any criminal messages. > The lack of digital evidence is not proof of innocence. Misplaced burden of proof. > Lawyers aren't generally known for their grasp of computer technology. Good lawyers are known for mastering the relevant details of a wide range of subjects.
- gamblor956 3mo ago
  Misplaced burden of proof. The defendant does not have a burden of proof. My point was that the lack of incriminating messages doesn't prove anything either way, which addresses your previous paragraph about not finding criminal messages. Good lawyers are known for mastering the relevant details of a wide range of subjects. LOL. Some of the best lawyers don't even know how to turn on their computers and still dictate their notes to their human secretaries. At any rate, your statement is quite false. The issue here was not that the lawyer failed to master a minute technical detail that everyone missed the first time around, its that such a minute technical detail ended up being material because there were no technical safeguards to catch the typo. This is another horrific situation that can be directly traced to the programmers being lazy and not wanting to burden themselves with "unnecessary" features.
- jibal 2mo ago
  Weird HN bozos who respond to a discussion 4 days later and expect someone to see it other than purely by chance. > At any rate, your statement is quite false. No it isn't, of course.
imtringued 3mo ago
If you knew anything about the Skyrim community you would know that it is one of the most generic names possible on the level of John_Smith, possibly even more generic. It is kind of like naming yourself after a meme or "lol".
- gamblor956 3mo ago
  In Skyrim, sure. Not on a separate social media platform, where it was apparently unique enough that it was only used twice. Probably because most of the userbase is younger than the game and would never have played it.
xigoi 3mo ago
> The lack of digital evidence is not proof of innocence. A claim made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

oersted 3mo ago

It’s not an unusual username, it is actually quite unoriginal, there are probably thousands of users with variations of the same name. It is the name of the headline magic ability in Skyrim, which is probably among the top ten most popular videogames of the last 25 years.

dzhiurgis 3mo ago
Wonder if there are expert witnesses in videogame niche. I have no idea what you are talking about.
- bryanrasmussen 3mo ago
  I have not idea either, other than I understand it is a common text from a really popular video game. Why wouldn't variations of that be a really common username?
- oersted 3mo ago
  I understand that certain segments of the population have remained completely disassociated from videogames, and that's fine, but that doesn't make it a niche or an expert topic. Games make significantly more money than movies and TV now. More than 65M people bought Skyrim, and many more millions would recognise Fus-Ro-Dah just from spending time on the Internet anywhere near to gaming circles. The defendant could have told their lawyer and it would have been trivial to research and demonstrate. Not sure what went wrong there.
  - dzhiurgis 3mo ago
    > Games make significantly more money than movies and TV now Don't wanna accuse you of anything, but why would you assume thats an important metric for HN populace. I assume most people here don't own a TV to begin with (personal projection obvs).
    - dafelst 3mo ago
      It's a proxy for reach, which is what GP is talking about.
    - account42 3mo ago
      In $current_year you can watch movies and TV shows without owning a TV.
- DoctorOetker 3mo ago
  oh no please no, not videogame experts in court... just be sane and force any Cyber attribution link in testimony to present in standardized form (with reference to find explanation) Damerau-Lehvenstein edit distance histogram, cumulative distribution, etc. So that all parties (defendant & lawyers, plaintif & lawyers, judge or if applicable also jury) can trivially read and interpret the data: On this platform we also have 4 users exactly 1 edit away, 15 users exactly 2 edits away,... On this platform we thus also have 4 other users 1 or fewer edits away, 19 users 2 or fewer edits away, ... And I assure you Klayme or whomever would have read this part of the testimony over and over, and pushing his lawyers towards the right questions, that is if they allow themselves to work in the interest of their client, which usually they refuse to do, and just submit straw-man arguments intentionally because everybody wants to go home or have shorter workdays so prosecution and defense lawyers just pre-judge how the cookie should be crumbled, and then nobody has to read anything...
ButlerianJihad 3mo ago
Since the introduction of the Skyrim game in 2011, UrbanDictionary has also indicated that the specific phrase is a term for fellatio. Just sayin'
- account42 3mo ago
  UrbanDictionary has a lot of terms that are maybe used by one friend group who thought it would be funny to add it to the site.
gamblor956 3mo ago
It turns out there were exactly two users with that same name. And the man in the story was one of them, which is why this all happened. It is the name of the headline magic ability in Skyrim, which is probably among the top ten most popular videogames of the last 25 years. That can be true and it can still be the case that most people that have played video games have never heard of it, especially on a teen-focused social media platform where most of the users are younger than the game.

jibal 3mo ago

> It was fairly unique. Wrong. And in any case, if they had looked at the message history of the account name that they used to track him down and that was entered into evidence at the trial, they would not have found any criminal messages. > The lack of digital evidence is not proof of innocence. Misplaced burden of proof. > Lawyers aren't generally known for their grasp of computer technology. Good lawyers are known for mastering the relevant details of a wide range of subjects.

gamblor956 3mo ago
Misplaced burden of proof. The defendant does not have a burden of proof. My point was that the lack of incriminating messages doesn't prove anything either way, which addresses your previous paragraph about not finding criminal messages. Good lawyers are known for mastering the relevant details of a wide range of subjects. LOL. Some of the best lawyers don't even know how to turn on their computers and still dictate their notes to their human secretaries. At any rate, your statement is quite false. The issue here was not that the lawyer failed to master a minute technical detail that everyone missed the first time around, its that such a minute technical detail ended up being material because there were no technical safeguards to catch the typo. This is another horrific situation that can be directly traced to the programmers being lazy and not wanting to burden themselves with "unnecessary" features.
jibal 2mo ago
Weird HN bozos who respond to a discussion 4 days later and expect someone to see it other than purely by chance. > At any rate, your statement is quite false. No it isn't, of course.

imtringued 3mo ago

If you knew anything about the Skyrim community you would know that it is one of the most generic names possible on the level of John_Smith, possibly even more generic. It is kind of like naming yourself after a meme or "lol".

gamblor956 3mo ago
In Skyrim, sure. Not on a separate social media platform, where it was apparently unique enough that it was only used twice. Probably because most of the userbase is younger than the game and would never have played it.

xigoi 3mo ago

> The lack of digital evidence is not proof of innocence. A claim made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.