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Roblox Officially Supports GrapheneOS
- jkahrs595 3mo agoSeems ridiculous, but when their biggest rival can’t be bothered to support Linux… you see why they might announce something like this.
- unleaded 3mo agoWho's their biggest rival? Roblox doesn't support Linux either.
- vablings 3mo agoThey don't officially support Linux, but they allow the community to continue playing using Sober. Honestly it's probably better that way
- Throudin 3mo agoI'd assume Fortnite Creative
- jkahrs595 3mo agoLet me rephrase, it doesn’t actively oppose Linux like Fortnite does. Roblox absolutely can run on Linux, even though it’s not officially supported.
- ekianjo 3mo agoUse Sober
- skiddude 3mo agoFor anyone curious: https://sober.vinegarhq.org https://sober.vinegarhq.org
- thenewnewguy 3mo agoDoesn't roblox use an anticheat that prevents the game client from running on linux? I thought nowadays the way to "run roblox on linux" involved using an android emulator.
- ChocolateGod 3mo agoFortnite doesn't actively oppose Linux, compared to Roblox cheating which keeps a lot of logic on the server, cheating on Fortnite on the client has a more bigger impact. Unfortunately there's no way to properly ship a kernel level anti-cheat on Linux right now and none of the mainstream distros ship with any kind of attestation or OS verification out the box like Android does. SteamOS could change it here though, we'll see. I don't have much hope given the thing doesn't even use Secure Boot by default.
- dannersy 3mo agoKernel level anti-cheat seems to be ultimately ineffective. I've seen this with my own eyes with backend data when I worked for a company with a moderately successful shooter. Kernel level anti-cheat is serving a similar function to something like EAC these days, which basically just keeps the lazy people out. With any decently sufficient backend data analysis, you catch these folks just as easy. I am of the belief that if you cannot completely control the environment, like a user's physical hardware, you're fighting a losing battle. Forcing them to install spyware is, in my opinion, just marketing for your competitive shooter and too invasive for the perceived gain.
- ChocolateGod 3mo ago> With any decently sufficient backend data analysis, you catch these folks just as easy. No you can't. Using server side analysis of behaviour will always get false positives, especially as ML networks are getting better and better at reproducing normal player behaviour. Your server side logic can't detect wall hacks, ESPs etc. > which basically just keeps the lazy people out That's better than nothing. Cheating will always be possible (see DMA devices), but as long as you make it reasonably hard to put most people off it, that's a success. > cannot completely control the environment But applications should be able to attest the environment is not modified, which is what desktop Linux lacks. Windows, macOS and Android do have methods to do this. > like a user's physical hardware, you're fighting a losing battle The alternative is no releases on PC.
- 3mo ago
- cyberrock 3mo agoNative Roblox has blocked Linux for 3 years, and games on it (especially PvP ones) can and do require Android remote attestation which Sober doesn't implement. It wouldn't surprise me if Graphene can't play those games as well. Roblox is a platform. Fortnite is still primarily one game.
- grapheneos 3mo agoRoblox supports using hardware-based attestation to verify GrapheneOS. We publish our verified boot keys in a signed JSON file and they use those to verify it as an alternative to the Play Integrity API. That's what's described at https://en.help.roblox.com/hc/en-us/articles/49648939984916-Android-Remote-Attestation https://en.help.roblox.com/hc/en-us/articles/49648939984916-....
- haunter 3mo agoFortnite
- x3cca 3mo agoThey're 60% of the North American game's industry revenue growth. Their rival is negative stock market sentiment. They need to pull out all the stops to prove growth.
- a2128 3mo agoRoblox has a long history of not supporting Linux, and the game was rendered unplayable for many years. In 2022 it became possible following some Wine patches, but then they began to implement a kernel-level anticheat. Roblox initially committed to keeping Wine working but suddenly went back on that and blocked it without notice. Today, the last remaining way is through running the Android version of the game through an Android container or emulator. The TFA is about stopping this exact method of running the game though...
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- nekitamo 3mo agoThis isn't true. Roblox never had and does not have a kernel anti-cheat.
- a2128 3mo agoMy mistake, I just assumed their Byfron anti-cheat is kernel level because that's the most common reason why anticheats take issue with Wine. If their anti-cheat operates entirely in usermode, then their decision to block Wine is even more baffling to me.
- vablings 3mo agoIt is not kernel level, they use a number of pretty fancy user mode tricks to prevent people messing with the game. They encrypt every page and register an exception handler that decrypts the page when a fault is reached to keep memory secure. They do cache timing checks to see if a page was recently in the working set outside of the expected control flow and will flag you if you fail the check too many times because it indicates tampering.
- not_a9 3mo agoWhile the page decryption trick should work in Wine just fine (ZeroIT Lab Theia does that too, right?), I don’t remember if Wine provides workingset info like Windows.
- jordand 3mo agoMakes sense for them to support this given their scale. I wouldn't be surprised if GrapheneOS secures another big Android OEM vendor (after Motorola Mobility) and the user base of the OS quickly grows from its current 400k+ to millions.
- UqWBcuFx6NV4r 3mo ago[flagged]
- copper-float 3mo agoWhy are you being so aggressive?
- el_io 3mo agoPathetic.
- Cider9986 3mo agoThey've doubled their users in 2 years
- annzabelle 3mo agoI've been looking into GrapheneOS as a longtime Pixel user who is thinking of becoming a bit more security conscious. But, looking around at its current state RE: RCS and camera apps, I think it makes the most sense to stick with stock Android. I also have a really niche feature I rely on daily (letting me "wifi call" from one sim over the data line of the other sim), and it's really hard to tell if GrapheneOS supports it. If I can grab my old pixel that's stored in a box at my parents' house on another continent I might give it a try, but GrapheneOS really doesn't seem ready to be a daily driver.
- malmeloo 3mo agoWhat's the issue with RCS and camera apps? RCS works (from what i've heard) and you get the same image quality as on stock if you install the pixel camera app. Not sure about that other feature you mentioned, but you can always revert back to stock if you don't like GOS. Restoring a backup is easier than it's ever been nowadays :-).
- subscribed 3mo agoGreat news! I never had problems running Roblox on my GOS, but it's nice to to see the explicit, official support. Snowball effect (for both sides, software publishers and OS vendors).
- dugite-code 3mo agoThis is a really interesting signal tbh. While it sounds like it already works on GrapheneOS having a corporation come out and say they won't go out of their way to break it is quite unusual.
- andrewaylett 3mo agoIt requires a positive action from the application developer to include GrapheneOS's keys as well as Google's keys. So this is a deliberate positive step, rather than a default.
- dugite-code 3mo agoOnly if they are using hardware key attestation. From what I've read elsewhere it looks like it was never broken so maybe they never went that far before.
- grapheneos 3mo agoApps rarely use hardware key attestation directly but rather use it via the Play Integrity API. Play Integrity device and strong integrity levels ban using a non-Google-certified OS. Play Integrity uses hardware key attestation for both integrity levels and it's a hard requirement for strong integrity. Developers enforcing one of those integrity levels to use their service need to either stop doing it or add explicit support for non-Google-certified operating systems via key attestation. Roblox's documentation shows they're taking the latter approach.
- YawmZolsner 3mo ago[dead]
- 650REDHAIR 3mo agoI guess that makes sense given the type of adults that prowl on Roblox.
- Cider9986 3mo agoIt's Roblox's responsibility to police their platform and the vast majority of bad actors use mainstream operating systems and mainstream services like Discord or Telegram. Clearly lack of privacy does not prevent crime as we can see on Telegram and Discord which are both not E2EE and yet have far more crime taking place then on encrypted alternatives.
- negura 3mo agowow what a nonsensical argument. "not all criminals wear ski masks. so let's let let anyone walk on school premises wearing a sky mask"
- Cider9986 3mo agoGrapheneOS isn't even designed for anonymity and is more secure than iPhones but iPhones are the next best option. A phone is not going to do anything deter or encourage bad behaviour on a platform. It would be much easier on a desktop considering the multi-tasking. Most criminals are not smart which is why they commit crimes. The idea that GrapheneOS is for criminals is as absurd as saying iPhones are. They are just tools trying to be the best they can be.
- matheusmoreira 3mo agoThat's excellent news!! Hope to see more of this!!
- AppAttestationz 3mo agoTruth be told, GrapheneOS is the only third party ROM that bothers to make app attestation work.
- Cider9986 3mo agoIt's not a ROM it's an OS.
- Moomoomoo309 3mo agoROM is to android what distro is to Linux. The term is used correctly here. An android ROM could refer to the stock OS, GrapheneOS, LineageOS, Pixel Experience, etc.
- 4gotunameagain 3mo agoROM is to android what an image file is to Linux. A distro is a collection of software and tools, more akin to an android OS.
- grapheneos 3mo agoGrapheneOS and other operating systems based on the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) are Linux distributions. None of those is a ROM. They're AOSP-based OSes. They're not read-only memory firmware or stored in read-only memory. Using the term ROM that way is very confusing to people who aren't part of communities historically using it that way. It's very misleading and propagates misconceptions. It's not simply about it not being technically accurate.
- preisschild 3mo agoWith immutable distros (see bootc or systemd-sysupgrade) the operating system itself is also only just a read only file system. Does that count as ROM too?
- throawayonthe 3mo ago
- snvzz 3mo agoHowever, if on LineageOS, which mind you is the only way to get updated (and thus safer) android versions in many devices, they simply block you. Awful.
- realusername 3mo agoThe announcement is very funny in that regard, devices with last update in 2023 like the Galaxy S10 are still ok despite having every root exploit under the sun available but god forbid you want to update it to the last version
- preisschild 3mo agoLineageOS has no AVB support at all unfortunately and most devices don't allow using verified boot with custom keys anyways. With GrapheneOS they can just add GrapheneOS public keys (https://grapheneos.org/attestation.json https://grapheneos.org/attestation.json). For LOS Roblox would have to disable hardware attestation completely, which means you can easily just add extra modules such as a setuid binary which makes cheating easy (at least on the client side, you'd have to rely completely on server side anti cheating) https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
- kevincox 3mo agoWhile that is true the bigger issue is that LineageOS doesn't qualify for "They do not break the AOSP security model" as it allows users to get root access without modifying the OS. So even if there was verified boot Roblox would still block it. For me this means that Roblox's requirements are fundamentally incompatible with any device I would want to use as they want to restrict my access and I want full access.
- khalic 3mo agoPlease don’t let your kids on this platform…
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- sinuhe69 3mo ago“You have reached your limits on help.roblox.com” That is the first time I see something like that!
- m132 3mo agoDon't get too excited, this still goes against the basic freedom to own the devices you've paid for. Remote attestation is still there and only official builds of GrapheneOS are supported. While this is marginally better than being tied to a build from an advertising company, you're still out of luck if you want to build the OS yourself.
- ticulatedspline 3mo ago[flagged]
- Cider9986 3mo agoIt would be accurate to call it official support if it means they have set up their app with the privacy-friendly Android Hardware Attestation API on GrapheneOS. Unless I'm wrong and they just support Basic Play Integrity or a lower one, I don't know much about that. But those would require play services. I could test to see if it works without play services which would indicate they are using the Hardware Attestation API to check the bootloader lock.
- grapheneos 3mo agoRoblox goes out of the way to explicitly support GrapheneOS. They permit GrapheneOS users to join servers enforcing remote attestation to verify the OS and app as a form of anti-cheat. They need to explicitly add the verified boot keys for each non-Google-certified OS. GrapheneOS is currently the only one they're supporting but they're making it clear that it's not at all exclusively available to it.
- tripleee 3mo agosupport? I'm yet to come across an Android app I can't run on GrapheneOS.. what exactly are they doing?
- grapheneos 3mo agoThey're doing attestation checks to enforce having a Google certified device and OS. They followed our attestation compatibility guide to support GrapheneOS by permitting the verified boot keys for it and have said they're open to permitting other operating systems in the same way. It would be better if apps didn't do this but if they're going to do it then this is much better than only permitting a Google certified OS.
- spaaaaaaaaaaace 3mo ago[flagged]