6 ms·

My new iPhone with USB C charging is such an improvement! Thank goodness for the European Union. If it weren't for them, we'd all be stuck with these flimsy Ap

by kubb 3mo ago

My new iPhone with USB C charging is such an improvement! Thank goodness for the European Union. If it weren't for them, we'd all be stuck with these flimsy Apple charging cables forever.

BLanen 3mo ago
There were non-apple lightning cables already. And I have to say, the lightning connector itself is better than the usb-c connect in my opinion. I get that having the pins on the male* plug is a theoretical advantage in durability but that has not been my experience with usb-c connector durability on either end. EDIT: usb-c has pins on the male plug. Which is what I meant. So female -> male.
- valina-line 3mo ago
  That's fascinating; I've only had positive experience with USB-C cables and terrible with Lightning. What kind of cables do you commonly use?
- kubb 3mo ago
  Couldn't be further from my experience. They would always eventually stop connecting. I didn't mention the single cable for everything advantage, that goes without saying.
- kotaKat 3mo ago
  I've also had basically zero issue with Lightning connectors, but had a constant battle with USB-C of every kind to figure out what's charging, what's data, what's PD, and so much more hassle. I don't get why Apple was forced to colonize by the EU when they had the market-leading connector in place for significantly longer than USB-C even existed. "It's only USB2!" Does it have to support the faster USB3 speeds? Not really... we don't have to keep forcing everything to include the latest kitchen sink support.
  - Aefiam 3mo ago
    As far as I understand Apple could have still supported an additional lightning port if they really cared about it. Per gemini for making ligthning accessories you also have to pay 4$ to apple per device that are passed onto the consumer. I dont know in what way that has to do with colonization. USB everywhere is nice because you can use the same charger for all kind of devices and dont have to carry multiple with you. The different kind of specs for usb cables is unfortunate, but you can just buy the highest spec ones and only use them.
  - wlesieutre 3mo ago
    It was only 2.5 years between Apple's first device with Lightning (iPhone 5 in September 2012) and their first device with USB-C (12" Macbook in April 2015). It's not like Lightning had a huge track record at that point they just made a decision that they had switched connectors once and didn't want to turn around and do it again. Kind of understandable, but I'm glad to not have Lightning anymore. Failure to have clear cable capability marking from the start is too bad though, if I needed a high speed USB cable longer than 6" (probably included with a hard drive enclosure or similar) I'm not sure if I own one, and if I do I have no idea which cable it is.
  - wredcoll 3mo ago
    If apple had made lightning an actual standard everyone was using then the eu might have chosen that instead. But they didn't. Every single other company/device was using usb(c) and it probably wasn't because of some kind if irrational dislike of words starting with the letter L.
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
- gwbas1c 3mo ago
  > the lightning connector itself is better than the usb-c connect in my opinion. I get that having the pins on the male* plug is a theoretical advantage in durability but that has not been my experience with usb-c connector durability on either end. I always end up picking a lot of dust out of my usb-c ports on my phones; or otherwise the port wears out and disconnects before charging completes. (Right after my wife entered the hospital in labor, I needed to scrounge around for something to clean out my phone's port because the "go" bag only had a wired charger and my phone wouldn't charge on it.) It's why I went to a wireless charger for daily use. --- I'm real curious why lightning never became the standard. Was Apple trying to keep it proprietary? Was there a half-hearted attempt to open it up or otherwise convince the Android ecosystem to use it?
  - Pet_Ant 3mo ago
    > I'm real curious why lightning never became the standard. Because it is bad. In any connection there are springs that keep the tension, which will eventually wear out. They can either be on the cheap replaceable cable, or in the receptacle that is hardwired into your expensive device. This is why, in part, USB Mini was replaced by USB Micro. ( https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/18552/why-was-mini-usb-deprecated-in-favor-of-micro-usb https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/18552/why-wa... ) > Why Micro types offer better durability? Accomplished by moving leaf-spring from the PCB receptacle to plug, the most-stressed part is now on the cable side of the connection. Inexpensive cable bears most wear instead of the µUSB device. Definitely had an iPhone where the port was worn out and getting it to connect was difficult.
  - hutattedonmyarm 3mo ago
    > I always end up picking a lot of dust out of my usb-c ports on my phones Lightning has the same issue sadly
    - Kirby64 3mo ago
      The advantage of Lightning here is there is a totally open port, so picking lint out of the port is substantially easier. With Type C you have to work around the 'tab' and it requires much much smaller tools.
- graemep 3mo ago
  I have not used lightning but I have found USB C to be much more fragile than USB A, although better than mini and micro. I would really rather have had evey thing be a few mm bigger and stick with A.
  - yellowapple 3mo ago
    A USB-C successor (USB-D?) that's USB-A sized but with the added pins, reversibility, and bidirectionality of USB-C would be neat. But USB-C is “good enough” as a one-standard-to-rule-them-all that I don't think it'd be worth it unless there was a massive benefit (faster data transfer? beefier power lines? optical data lines?).
leokennis 3mo ago
Even if Lightning was possibly a nicer or smaller connector; nothing beats a true industry standard. Makes the entire “what chargers and cables to bring to connect my stuff” question so much easier.
- ajsnigrutin 3mo ago
  Sadly, that's far from truth... "back in the day", you had an ericsson charger that fit in an ericsson phone and charget that ericsson phone well... and you had a nokia charger for you nokia that charged your nokia. They physically looked different, they wouldn't fit into any other device, and when you needed a charger, you'd take the one that fit the charging hole and it would charge. Now, you have a bunch of usb C bricks, some just 5V usb, some USB PD, some QC(2, 3).... then you have a bunch of usb C cables, some with ID chips, some without, some able to carry 15 watts, some 100 watts, and then you have devices, some that can do QC, some that can do smart PD, some with just some resistors, some without even those. Everything fits in every hole, every charger can take any cable and any device can take the other end of the cable.... but will this particular combo charge your laptop? The cable fits.. will it charge? What about those cheap earbuds that just want 5 volts? The USB-A to usb-C cable that came with them works, but the USB-C to USB-C that you bought after, doesn't. How about that smart LiPo charger, it's USB-C, but it needs at least 9 volts to charge, and not every power brick gives out that voltage. What about charging speed? Will it do fast charge? Your laptop charging light is on, but the battery percentage is going down... why? What about a powerbank, does it charge your laptop? How does it know who does the charging, and who is getting charged? I mean sure, if you know your standards, you'll know what devices need PD and which ones use QC, you'll read the specs on the power bricks, you know how many watts your laptop needs, how to switch the current directions, which devices can't do proper handshakes, and need usbA->C cables, etc, and you'll get yourself a baggie of a few power bricks and cables for different stuff, but i had to label the cables for my mom, because while everything physically fits, many combinations won't actually charge your device. 10 years ago, this wasn't a problem, since her laptop charger didn't fit her wireless earphones, now it fits and it doesn't charge them.
  - ocimbote 3mo ago
rconti 3mo ago
honestly, the lightning CONNECTOR was far better, but man, I really appreciate the standardization. We have one device on the house left using lightning (my wife's iPhone 13 mini) and .. well, I just wish they'd release a new mini, that's all.
- m463 3mo ago
  > I just wish they'd release a new mini you and a lot of other people. that's the only reason I have lightning in the house, actually.
tonymet 3mo ago
Give it time. I have 10+ year lightning connnectors working great. usb c isn’t quite as sturdy
gumby 3mo ago
Apple was a key developer of USB C and used its experience from developing lightning. They were also one of the first (if not the first) to sell USB C devices (2016 MacBook, then across the whole Mac line). I don’t know how much the EU affected their timeline; it’s unsurprising they moved to USB C on their biggest volume product last. And the lifespan of 30-pin and lightning were about the same. This was a repeat for Apple: the first iMac was the first production USB computer and they were pilloried for that too.

by kubb 3mo ago

My new iPhone with USB C charging is such an improvement! Thank goodness for the European Union. If it weren't for them, we'd all be stuck with these flimsy Apple charging cables forever.

BLanen 3mo ago

There were non-apple lightning cables already. And I have to say, the lightning connector itself is better than the usb-c connect in my opinion. I get that having the pins on the male* plug is a theoretical advantage in durability but that has not been my experience with usb-c connector durability on either end. EDIT: usb-c has pins on the male plug. Which is what I meant. So female -> male.

valina-line 3mo ago
That's fascinating; I've only had positive experience with USB-C cables and terrible with Lightning. What kind of cables do you commonly use?
kubb 3mo ago
Couldn't be further from my experience. They would always eventually stop connecting. I didn't mention the single cable for everything advantage, that goes without saying.
kotaKat 3mo ago
I've also had basically zero issue with Lightning connectors, but had a constant battle with USB-C of every kind to figure out what's charging, what's data, what's PD, and so much more hassle. I don't get why Apple was forced to colonize by the EU when they had the market-leading connector in place for significantly longer than USB-C even existed. "It's only USB2!" Does it have to support the faster USB3 speeds? Not really... we don't have to keep forcing everything to include the latest kitchen sink support.
- Aefiam 3mo ago
  As far as I understand Apple could have still supported an additional lightning port if they really cared about it. Per gemini for making ligthning accessories you also have to pay 4$ to apple per device that are passed onto the consumer. I dont know in what way that has to do with colonization. USB everywhere is nice because you can use the same charger for all kind of devices and dont have to carry multiple with you. The different kind of specs for usb cables is unfortunate, but you can just buy the highest spec ones and only use them.
- wlesieutre 3mo ago
  It was only 2.5 years between Apple's first device with Lightning (iPhone 5 in September 2012) and their first device with USB-C (12" Macbook in April 2015). It's not like Lightning had a huge track record at that point they just made a decision that they had switched connectors once and didn't want to turn around and do it again. Kind of understandable, but I'm glad to not have Lightning anymore. Failure to have clear cable capability marking from the start is too bad though, if I needed a high speed USB cable longer than 6" (probably included with a hard drive enclosure or similar) I'm not sure if I own one, and if I do I have no idea which cable it is.
- wredcoll 3mo ago
  If apple had made lightning an actual standard everyone was using then the eu might have chosen that instead. But they didn't. Every single other company/device was using usb(c) and it probably wasn't because of some kind if irrational dislike of words starting with the letter L.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
gwbas1c 3mo ago
> the lightning connector itself is better than the usb-c connect in my opinion. I get that having the pins on the male* plug is a theoretical advantage in durability but that has not been my experience with usb-c connector durability on either end. I always end up picking a lot of dust out of my usb-c ports on my phones; or otherwise the port wears out and disconnects before charging completes. (Right after my wife entered the hospital in labor, I needed to scrounge around for something to clean out my phone's port because the "go" bag only had a wired charger and my phone wouldn't charge on it.) It's why I went to a wireless charger for daily use. --- I'm real curious why lightning never became the standard. Was Apple trying to keep it proprietary? Was there a half-hearted attempt to open it up or otherwise convince the Android ecosystem to use it?
- Pet_Ant 3mo ago
  > I'm real curious why lightning never became the standard. Because it is bad. In any connection there are springs that keep the tension, which will eventually wear out. They can either be on the cheap replaceable cable, or in the receptacle that is hardwired into your expensive device. This is why, in part, USB Mini was replaced by USB Micro. ( https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/18552/why-was-mini-usb-deprecated-in-favor-of-micro-usb https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/18552/why-wa... ) > Why Micro types offer better durability? Accomplished by moving leaf-spring from the PCB receptacle to plug, the most-stressed part is now on the cable side of the connection. Inexpensive cable bears most wear instead of the µUSB device. Definitely had an iPhone where the port was worn out and getting it to connect was difficult.
- hutattedonmyarm 3mo ago
  > I always end up picking a lot of dust out of my usb-c ports on my phones Lightning has the same issue sadly
  - Kirby64 3mo ago
    The advantage of Lightning here is there is a totally open port, so picking lint out of the port is substantially easier. With Type C you have to work around the 'tab' and it requires much much smaller tools.
graemep 3mo ago
I have not used lightning but I have found USB C to be much more fragile than USB A, although better than mini and micro. I would really rather have had evey thing be a few mm bigger and stick with A.
- yellowapple 3mo ago
  A USB-C successor (USB-D?) that's USB-A sized but with the added pins, reversibility, and bidirectionality of USB-C would be neat. But USB-C is “good enough” as a one-standard-to-rule-them-all that I don't think it'd be worth it unless there was a massive benefit (faster data transfer? beefier power lines? optical data lines?).

leokennis 3mo ago

Even if Lightning was possibly a nicer or smaller connector; nothing beats a true industry standard. Makes the entire “what chargers and cables to bring to connect my stuff” question so much easier.

ajsnigrutin 3mo ago
Sadly, that's far from truth... "back in the day", you had an ericsson charger that fit in an ericsson phone and charget that ericsson phone well... and you had a nokia charger for you nokia that charged your nokia. They physically looked different, they wouldn't fit into any other device, and when you needed a charger, you'd take the one that fit the charging hole and it would charge. Now, you have a bunch of usb C bricks, some just 5V usb, some USB PD, some QC(2, 3).... then you have a bunch of usb C cables, some with ID chips, some without, some able to carry 15 watts, some 100 watts, and then you have devices, some that can do QC, some that can do smart PD, some with just some resistors, some without even those. Everything fits in every hole, every charger can take any cable and any device can take the other end of the cable.... but will this particular combo charge your laptop? The cable fits.. will it charge? What about those cheap earbuds that just want 5 volts? The USB-A to usb-C cable that came with them works, but the USB-C to USB-C that you bought after, doesn't. How about that smart LiPo charger, it's USB-C, but it needs at least 9 volts to charge, and not every power brick gives out that voltage. What about charging speed? Will it do fast charge? Your laptop charging light is on, but the battery percentage is going down... why? What about a powerbank, does it charge your laptop? How does it know who does the charging, and who is getting charged? I mean sure, if you know your standards, you'll know what devices need PD and which ones use QC, you'll read the specs on the power bricks, you know how many watts your laptop needs, how to switch the current directions, which devices can't do proper handshakes, and need usbA->C cables, etc, and you'll get yourself a baggie of a few power bricks and cables for different stuff, but i had to label the cables for my mom, because while everything physically fits, many combinations won't actually charge your device. 10 years ago, this wasn't a problem, since her laptop charger didn't fit her wireless earphones, now it fits and it doesn't charge them.
- ocimbote 3mo ago

rconti 3mo ago

honestly, the lightning CONNECTOR was far better, but man, I really appreciate the standardization. We have one device on the house left using lightning (my wife's iPhone 13 mini) and .. well, I just wish they'd release a new mini, that's all.

m463 3mo ago
> I just wish they'd release a new mini you and a lot of other people. that's the only reason I have lightning in the house, actually.

tonymet 3mo ago

Give it time. I have 10+ year lightning connnectors working great. usb c isn’t quite as sturdy

gumby 3mo ago

Apple was a key developer of USB C and used its experience from developing lightning. They were also one of the first (if not the first) to sell USB C devices (2016 MacBook, then across the whole Mac line). I don’t know how much the EU affected their timeline; it’s unsurprising they moved to USB C on their biggest volume product last. And the lifespan of 30-pin and lightning were about the same. This was a repeat for Apple: the first iMac was the first production USB computer and they were pilloried for that too.