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Richard Stallman calls Ubuntu “spyware” because it tracks searches
- theshadow 14y agoIt's a shame that the ridiculous amount of hyperbole involved in anything that Stallman seems to say these days is probably reducing his stature among the tech community and the history books. IMO his opinions would be more constructive if he tones it down every now and then.
- flatline 14y agoIt has been this way as long as I've been cognizant of his views; he has always been something of a radical. It just used to be that there was one predominant party at which to take aim (Microsoft). Now there are dozens of targets that have sprung up, which legitimately deserve some of the criticisms he levels against them: the walled gardens of cell phone ecosystems, rampant DRM, and opaque social media sites for which your data is their primary source of revenue. As more of our lives continually revolve around digital media, there are more opportunities for abuse. Stallman has been rigidly consistent in his basic message over the years, and he has never been particularly constructive.
- Kim_Bruning 14y agoWhat makes you say he has been non-constructive? I can think of GNU, Emacs, The GPL, FSF etc. off the top of my head.
- trotsky 14y agohe has never been particularly constructive yeah. i mean except for the part where his actions directly lead to one of the most significant changes in technology in a generation.
- flatline 14y agoYes, I should have said, not constructive in his criticisms, but you are right, he has done a ton of stuff outside of his public speaking that has been huge and actually belies my statement to a large extent.
- shill 14y ago'Spyware' is an appropriate label for software that remotely logs your local searches. What is there to tone down?
- rlpb 14y agoIt's not a local search. If you want a local search, do a local search. If you type a search into a global search box that is supposed to search the Internet, expect it to search the Internet!
- cwkoss 14y agoStallman is talking about a search of a local filesystem.
- spindritf 14y agoSearch of local file systems (<super>f) does not include results from Amazon. This is FUD.
- lhnn 14y agoPeople are not used to a search area that looks up local AND internet resources. Furthermore, AFAIK, thre is no obvious "local only" search box to act as an alternative to this global one. It's a combination of user expectations of a local search resource and the lack of obvious warnings about this new, and odd, feature.
- rlpb 14y ago> People are not used to a search area that looks up local AND internet resources. This is the crux of the matter. I would argue that they are used to this. Ordinary users aren't aware where they are conducting a search at all. They just expect the computer to figure out and do what they mean. The distinction between the Internet and local storage is already being lost on them (examples: Dropbox, Google Drive). The fact that so many users put URLs in a Google search box is a perfect example of this phenomenon. The set of users who do understand the difference are capable of directing their computer more specifically. The default does not matter for them. Ubuntu is supposed to be usable by everyone. This is (I assume) why the default is the way round that it is. > the lack of obvious warnings Have you looked? There is a warning on the same screen as the box, complete with a link to a privacy policy. Or are you saying that this isn't enough?
- k-mcgrady 14y agoI usually find RMS' posts very over-the-top but I thought he was spot on with this one.
- scarmig 14y agoStallman hyperbolic nowadays? I hate to be snarky, but... when hasn't he been hyperbolic? He's never been known for moderation and his skills at alliance building across the political spectrum. Of course, that's not to say he isn't right. Far from it.
- duaneb 14y agoI've found that RMS sounds eerily sane these days.
- oelmekki 14y agoThat's because his most paranoiac predictions are becoming true :)
- jmpeax 14y agoThat's an argument to moderation. Something he's explicitly stated should not be done (pertaining to software patents, sorry, can't find the reference). Although extremely hyperbolic, you can imagine a choice between killing 10 innocent people or 0. The middle ground is to only kill 5, but it doesn't make it correct.
- grannyg00se 14y agoThere's a switch to shut the offending "feature" off. Not good enough for Stallman, but definitely gave me a sigh of relief.
- anonaccount27 14y agoWhy not make said switch default to off?
- robrenaud 14y agoMoney.
- ihsw 14y agoMoney is innocuous and inert, greed however is more accurate. Saying simply 'money' is disingenuous and it doesn't indicate obviously enough that Canonical is acting in a greedy manner.
- duaneb 14y agoI don't think it's greedy at all. Canonical is hardly beholden to the users of its software.
- mayneack 14y agoRevenue.
- giardini 14y agoBecause the NSA wants it on. And what makes you think the switch works? Where do you think these features come from? Windows has it and probably put it in for the NSA, Google has it and works with the NSA as equal partners. When I first read and saw these enhanced search subsystems in Windows and Linux that built search databases by scanning the system's file contents and saw how much cpu they used I immediately said to myself "Somebody's searching for something and it isn't me!" Furthermore I've always believed that Ubuntu was an NSA front from its very inception. (Puts tinfoil hat back on).
- Osiris 14y agoIt's too bad Ubuntu isn't open source so someone could just recompile the application without support for the feature...
- sp332 14y agoIt's too bad Canonical thinks they have a right to my data on my own machine. WTF, Canonical?
- TallGuyShort 14y agoI was especially appalled when Mark Shuttleworth's response was something to the effect of, "Look - you should trust us absolutely - we practically have root access to your machines". That's not a good attitude. I originally switched away from Ubuntu because I didn't like the stuff I saw getting pushed to my machine in updates.
- forrestthewoods 14y agoThat actually isn't what he said at all. He did not say "you should trust us". He said "you do trust us". There is a considerable difference. Here is the full question and answer. Q: Why are you telling Amazon what I am searching for? A: We are not telling Amazon what you are searching for. Your anonymity is preserved because we handle the query on your behalf. Don’t trust us? Erm, we have root. You do trust us with your data already. You trust us not to screw up on your machine with every update. You trust Debian, and you trust a large swathe of the open source community. And most importantly, you trust us to address it when, being human, we err. http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1182 http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1182
- freshhawk 14y agoI would trust Ubuntu not to push down damaging updates that it would be impossible for them to do without it being discoverable. I would not trust them to hold on to my personal data with no way of knowing what they are going to do with it. "You do trust us" is a classic false dichotomy fallacy.
- droithomme 14y agoReading what he is talking about, Stallman's description is absolutely correct. If I am doing a desktop search for local files, it is not be expectation that that search will be transmitted to servers without my consent, and that it does so makes it spyware even if we don't also take into consideration that it is being done to track my interests for monetary gain in the form of referral links. Good on him for calling attention to this functionality.
- Irregardless 14y ago> Use Super-A. You can tell Unity exactly what you want to search. And in future you’ll be able to do that from the home lens, too, more easily than the current Lens Bar at the bottom of the Dash. From http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1182 http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1182 It sounds like they're working to expand the search functionality with users' best interests in mind, not adding advertisements as everyone seems to think. > it is being done to track my interests for monetary gain in the form of referral links They're just search results, not ads. Read the blog post from Shuttleworth.
- droithomme 14y agoThanks. The article states "If a user buys something from Amazon as a result, money is sent to Canonical in the form of affiliate payments." Is the article in error, or has the behavior changed in response to criticism, or do the amazon links have Canonical affiliate codes? The last seems to be the correct answer - affiliate links are used. I see no evidence Stallman is incorrect and the Shuttleworth blog article does not say they don't use affiliate links. http://askubuntu.com/questions/192725/how-do-i-make-sure-that-canonical-get-affiliate-benefits-when-i-buy-from-amazon http://askubuntu.com/questions/192725/how-do-i-make-sure-tha... > The Amazon affiliate referral happens if you've arrived at the Amazon property via a 'tagged' link. Both links clicked via the dash which go to Amazon sites, and the shortcut in the launcher will add the tag. The tag adds a cookie which lasts for 24 hours. If you buy anything during that period, Canonical will get some affiliate revenue.
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- joejohnson 14y agoRichard Stallman is absolutely correct in calling this spyware. At the very least, this "feature" should be off by default.
- tjic 14y agoGod, it pains me to click the "upvote" button on a comment that begins "Richard Stallman is absolutely correct", but the second sentence was so correct that I had to. ;-)
- meaty 14y agoHe is correct on a lot of things if you throw popular opinion out of the window and consider what is best for you* * human nature is inherently self-destructive. He seems to identify that it doesn't have to be.
- rickmb 14y agoRMS is usually correct. Annoying, offensive, unpragmatic, undiplomatic and confrontational, but in the end he's usually right in his basic analyses of the problem. Often well before anyone else even recognizes there is a problem.
- carlisle_ 14y agoThe ends don't justify the means.
- 14y ago
- frere 14y agoJust use Mint!
- sqqqrly 14y agoI prefer LMDE and to skip the Ubuntu derivation.
- chimeracoder 14y agoHow different are the two (if you've used the Ubuntu version as well, that is)? I've got my family running Linux Mint, and they find it suits their purposes (as any well-designed mainstream Linux distro these days should!). I've been wondering if it's worth switching them over to the Debian-based version the next time I upgrade it, though. (Linux Mint encourages the "Windows-style" upgrade - ie, back up your data, then install over, and restore, so it wouldn't be that much more work than upgrading to the latest version of the Ubuntu branch).
- frere 14y agoI agree completely. I've been running LMDE for a little over a year now; quite easily my favorite distro.
- w1ntermute 14y agoFor those who want to avoid this crap, there's a simple solution: come to Xubuntu. You can avoid spyware and at the same time get a simple, straightforward desktop UI without any modern "tablet" or "phone" UI flourishes: http://i.imgur.com/6fF0C.png http://i.imgur.com/6fF0C.png
- indiecore 14y agoI love xubuntu, it's like how Ubuntu was before they decided that flash was more important than function.
- mintplant 14y agoOr, you know, sudo apt-get remove unity-lens-shopping
- vonuebelgarten 14y agoOr just remove anything from Unity and install Gnome Shell. I do this. My laptop runs a Ubuntu which is, interface-wise, a Debian with faster updates.
- josephlord 14y agoBut the point is the fact that Canonical made the decision to enable this by default breaks my trust in them. What are they going to do next? How am I going to monitor to make sure I know what I need to remove/disable/opt-out of next? If I choose an Ubuntu variant how do I monitor them to check that they aren't adding any of the parent undesirable features. That is why when I decide to change from 12.04 it will almost certainly be to another distro. Maybe I need to give the parent distro a try (Debian).
- nitrogen 14y agoI wish I could just run the last version of Ubuntu whose version of GDM supported complete theming, but still get security and feature updates.
- blahedo 14y agoI agree, but see my comment from elsewhere in this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4890445 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4890445
- OlivierLi 14y agoI love Kubuntu right now. It's everything that is good about Ubuntu without the new undesirable additions.
- TheCowboy 14y agoTurning it off: Super > search for 'Privacy' > under the 'Search Results' tab > switch 'Include online search results' off
- marcoamorales 14y agoSo they know when you are searching to disable it, huh?
- officemonkey 14y agoRemove your computer from the network first. Done.
- splawn 14y agoI want a screensaver that turns this feature on, generates tons of fake queries then turns the feature back off so i don't accidentally send them anything real. :)
- Simucal 14y agoYou can turn off the feature.
- splawn 14y agoyeah (and i get your underlying point), but a "screwbuntu" protest screensaver would be a more fun and pro-active way to show disapproval of opt-out tracking, imo.
- keithpeter 14y agoSuch an application would need to use search terms drawn from the collected works of Richard Stallman, and the Free Software Foundation of course. The application would also need to be available from the Software Centre... PS: I use Gnome Ubuntu Remix 12.10 and I have donated to Ubuntu
- freshhawk 14y agoI love it, although ethically I think this kind of thing is only reasonable if they hide the feature or make it hard to disable. Having it opt-out makes it borderline in my opinion but I can't argue with someone who thinks opt-out is enough to put it over the line. For example, I like the various different google fuzzers that generate fake searches to hide your real ones in the noise.
- j45 14y agoAw, man. I just started checking out Ubuntu from using another flavor of linux for years. The setting can be turned off I just hope it's in an easy to find blog post.
- keithpeter 14y agoJust go to system settings and look for privacy or something similar. There is an actual control. You can also remove the software that provides the Amazon search.
- DannoHung 14y agoHmm... this gives me an idea for a browser plugin: For anything you buy on Amazon, it automatically adds an affiliate link for your favorite charity or organization in, giving them a tiny touch of revenue.
- flogic 14y agoThat would be awesome.
- Tyrannosaurs 14y agoPerhaps the UK Inland Revenue could use this and affiliate links to get some money out of Amazon as they're not getting much out of them through actual taxes.
- tterrace 14y agoI would assume that Amazon has something against that kind of automatic referral in their TOS somewhere.
- zanny 14y ago[Jupiter Broadcasting](http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/ http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/) already does this, their affiliate plugin automatically appends their referral on any of about a dozen sites they can, and that is their main source of revenue for their podcasts.
- temporary432432 14y agoWhy didn't he protest Apport? It sends data to Cannonical (with users content but that does not matter in his argument)
- throwaway2048 14y agothere is a large moral difference between opt in and opt out. With opt in, the consent is explicit, with opt out, the consent is assumed to be implicit, but user ignorance often means they have no idea that its happening at all, thus cannot be said to have consented.
- mfonda 14y agoI think the phrasing of this title is poor. It seems to imply that Stallman's statement is ridiculous, yet most people (and the definition of spyware) seem to agree that this feature is is in fact spyware.
- bonch 14y ago"Most people"? That's a large assumption to make.
- arunc 14y agoWhen money overtakes morale it becomes Ubuntu. Since long Ubuntu has been trying to avoid the Linux identity. Its a good call from Stallman bringing out Ubuntu's real motive is/will be few years down the line. Switched to Arch Linux since 2008 (that's when Ubuntu was spelt around the globe) and I'm happy about the decision.
- chimeracoder 14y agoWhile I agree that this is an example of spyware, could you explain what you're referring to by "Ubuntu's real motive'?
- RexRollman 14y agoProbably: to make a profit.
- mylittlepony 14y agoCan you recommend me a setup for using Arch as a desktop? Eg: which UI should I install? Do things like sound, video, usb, etc work fine?
- w1ntermute 14y ago> Can you recommend me a setup for using Arch as a desktop? Eg: which UI should I install? xmonad is probably the best option. > Do things like sound, video, usb, etc work fine? USB works by default. I'm not sure why people even ask this anymore. You will have to configure sound (easy, usually works by default) and video (not too bad these days) yourself. Keep in mind that the Arch Installation Framework (an ncurses-based installer) has been deprecated, as of earlier this year. That means you will have to follow the Installation Guide[0] to manually set up the system from a live command line, Gentoo-style. 0: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_Guide https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_Guide
- mylittlepony 14y agoThanks!
- darec1 14y agoI understand Canonicals intentions: with everything going "cloud" and "online" it makes total sense to offer just one search box instead of two. It's easy, it's convenient. However it sends your input to a third party or maybe parties in the future. You no longer control your data. Is it even encrypted? Who can see what you are searching? Your family, your provider, everybody on your wifi? It's not about ads in the first place, it's about data protection, trust and user interfaces. However this isn't Ubunut, this is just Canonical Unity. I'd just install gnome-shell/kde/xfce/... and be done with it.
- BrianPetro 14y agoDoes Ubuntu all you to turn this feature off? If so, I don't have a problem with it.
- Deestan 14y agoConsider this: How many searches did you do before you became aware that this was introduced in one of the 384 software upgrades you installed in the past 4 months?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- shakeel_mohamed 14y agoI see both sides of this issue. But I also see the end user's point of view. As an Android user, I like that I can press the search button and essentially search all of my apps & the web at once. Personally, I see this as an okay feature. On a side note, are Amazon results shown only if one is using the Amazon application for Ubuntu? I use Amazon frequently, but not the Ubuntu application and I've never seens Amazon results. (On Ubuntu 12.10)
- dchichkov 14y agoAnyone knows how much money they need / are planning to get through this? Perhaps a crowd-sourcing campaign could be organized to match that? Or is this a long-term plan creating an Ama$on O$?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- wyck 14y agoWhen stuff like this happens it's really easy to get involved and voice your opinion by switching gears, that is the beauty of open source. Ubuntu Forks. http://xubuntu.org/ http://xubuntu.org/ http://www.kubuntu.org/ http://www.kubuntu.org/ http://www.linuxmint.com/ http://www.linuxmint.com/ http://www.sabayon.org/ http://www.sabayon.org/ Other Disto's. http://www.mageia.org/en/ http://www.mageia.org/en/ http://fedoraproject.org/ http://fedoraproject.org/ https://www.archlinux.org/ https://www.archlinux.org/ http://www.opensuse.org/ http://www.opensuse.org/ etc..etc
- tcdent 14y agoI know this could go on, but I think Debian should be mentioned. The Ubuntu team themselves refer to it as "the rock upon which Ubuntu is built." http://www.debian.org/ http://www.debian.org/
- zalew 14y agoit's also the rock most of websites are sitting on.
- tsahyt 14y agoDebian is a great distribution. In fact, my first Linux was a Debian and I'm still running it on the server. On the desktop I'm using Fedora though - for no obvious reasons. It's just the one I stopped with when I was trying out distros.
- pmcginn 14y agoSabayon is based on Gentoo, should be in the Other Distro's section.
- blahedo 14y agoRelatedly, the default Ubuntu install of Firefox (including in the *ubuntus, like Xubuntu) ensure that everything you type into the location bar (even if you know exact URLs and don't plan to search!) is sent to Google, Wikipedia, and various other websites. The only way to turn it off, afaict, is to uninstall the Ubuntu extensions from Firefox---which is not at all obvious.
- ThePinion 14y agoAny way you have some proof? I At this point I honestly don't doubt it, but I'd like to see some technical data.
- blahedo 14y agoJust personal experience. When I installed Xubuntu 12.10 (not an upgrade---it was on a machine previously running MacOS only), every time I started to type a URL into Firefox's location bar, the popdown list would include not only history and bookmarks, but results that you'd get from searching google and wikipedia for the sequence of letters typed so far. It updated after every keypress. In the Firefox preferences, the only relevant config option (that I found) was to suggest either/both/none of history and bookmarks, but turning that to "none" meant you only got the search results. Turning off the Ubuntu extensions also turned off the extra search results, so I'm hoping that it also stopped sending my info and didn't just start doing it silently.
- ThePinion 14y agoGood to know. I'll look into it and add it as a suggestion to remove it on my Ubuntu tips/tricks website. Thanks!
- darrikmazey 14y agoIsn't spyware you don't have to use and can uninstall just software with a feature you do not desire? I'm completely against the feature, but I don't see why something must be done about it? Feel free to add whatever features to your software you like, so long as nothing requires me to use it. There are plenty of linux distros, desktop environments, etc. Edit: typo.
- dhruvbird 14y agoI remember the first 4 digits of my credit card and I want the whole of it. I do a search and "boom" the first 4 digits of my credit card are online.
- motters 14y agoStallman is right about this in my opinion. I think if the feature isn't either opt-in, or removed, in 13.04 then Ubuntu is going to lose a great deal of credibility, especially amongst its long time supporters. With 12.10 they can claim that it's something experimental rushed in at the last moment which needs refinement. Both Mark Shuttleworth's and Jono Bacon's blog responses to this issue have been below the standard that I would have expected. Shuttleworth made a silly comment about Canonical having root on Ubuntu machines already and Jono described the Stallman's comments as "childish".