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I Changed My Name
- zulux 4mo agoPretty normal. My Chinese name is Chinese. Much less friction to pick a 21st-century English name in the anglosphere.
- declan_roberts 4mo agoVery American actually. A significant amount of Americans have a surname that was changed or transliterated from another European language.
- masfuerte 4mo agoe.g. President Drumpf.
- BoppreH 4mo agoI'm obliged to mention Falsehoods Programmer Believe About Names: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-... . As someone who also has two family names, I always dread questions for my "last name". What's also fun are alphabet differences. Try to interact with the Greek government and they might ask you to spell your name using only their characters. An interesting challenge when your name contains sounds that don't exist in the local language (sh, hu).
- Telaneo 4mo ago> As someone who also has two family names, I always dread questions for my "last name". I feel the same about anything that doesn't ask about my middle name. I end up constantly see emails with 'Hi/Dear First-Name Middle-Name', which nobody calls me, but if you want my full name as written in my passport, it's got to be there somewhere. It'd be much better if they instead asked for 'Legal name (what's written in your passport)' and 'Nickname (what you want us to call you)', although I suspect many would fill in an actual nickname in that second box and be mad that the service 'needs' that, or doesn't treat them with the proper respect, when you could just fill in Dr. Robert Smith there and it wouldn't matter in the slightest. I've considered changing my name to a more simplified version with just two names, but I'm expecting it to be a hassle, and there's a social aspect to it, which I'm not sure I want to deal with. But with every day that passes, the sunk cost becomes bigger.
- pavel_lishin 4mo ago> What's also fun are alphabet differences. Yeah. Slavic names are fun here. Polish names are already long due to their di- and tri-graphs, and transliterated Russian and Ukrainian names can easily eat up the "maximum character count" if you have a lot of sibilants in your name. And that's before you meet with someone who has to try and stumble over the various zh, sh and sch sounds.
- YeGoblynQueenne 3mo agoThat must be why the Czechs leave all their names' vowels at home when they travel abroad :P
- IAmBroom 3mo ago"Don't mock the Welsh. You have the privilege of growing up with a language that has vowels."
- wkjagt 4mo agoOne falsehood I just ran into myself when booking a parking spot at the airport: "all parts of a name start with a capital letter". This isn't true for Dutch names with "van de", "van der" etc, which this site "corrected" to start with capitals. So silly to have a system "correct" my own name and get it wrong.
- emayljames 3mo agoThis happens to Irish/Scottish names too, such as McDonald, Mc being 'son of' in Gaelic language; the capital letter after Mc is wrongly changed to a lowercase letter. Another very frustrating issue I run into, is hyphens not being allowed. My firstname and surname both have hyphens, and they are very common even in English based names.
- nneonneo 4mo agoA Russian friend living in Japan noted that, at least as of a decade ago, a decent number of government services (for citizens) allowed something like 6 characters max for the entire name. This is because Japanese names are normally written compactly in Kanji, but it becomes a problem when your name is 15 Katakana or 25 Latin characters long.
- Joker_vD 3mo ago"Константин Константинович Константинопольский" is a somewhat popular example of what one's design (graphical, computer system, whatever) should realistically allow for.
- YeGoblynQueenne 3mo agoAh... "Constantin Constantinovitch Constantino... pushkin"? Don't want to check it out online, just curious how well I can read Cyrillic as a native Greek speaker.
- Joker_vD 3mo ago"Constantinopolsky", it's "Constantinopol" plus "-sky" which is for forming adjectives, so essentially it means "Constantinopolean".
- YeGoblynQueenne 3mo agoAha! Thanks! My eyes get very confused with the ин and the ий. I expect и to be the consonant and н the vowel but it seems like they're ... not?
- Joker_vD 3mo agoYeah, they're opposite. I suggest taking a look at the rows 10 and 16 of the table at [0]: as you can see, those letters originally had their horizontal stroke differently slanted, but in time, the slant... slanted further, and turned "Ν" (GREEK CAPITAL LETTER NU) into "Н" (CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER EN), and "Η" (GREEK CAPITAL LETTER ETA) into "И" (CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER I). You know, looking at that table, this alphabet is surprisingly fitting for modern Polish phonology, it even has nasal vowels. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Cyrillic_alphabet#Alphabet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Cyrillic_alphabet#Alphab...
- stavros 3mo agoEh you just replace those with the closest analog(s). "Sh" becomes "s", for example.
- BoppreH 3mo ago"Sh" to "s" is simple enough. Sounds horrible to my ears, but maybe not to someone named Stavros ;). I've also been told that the double-p of Boppre looks alien in Greek. And the "hu" syllable (like the sound an owl makes) was a genuine challenge. I think we went with χού. And now that my name is in the system, that's forever with this spelling, I guess.
- stavros 3mo agoYeah, it'd be χου. Which language is this from?
- BoppreH 3mo agoIt's just a syllable of the whole name, which is a German surname in a certain old dialect. And its pronunciation has been mangled after 150 in a country that can't pronounce it properly, so it's a mess all around.
- stavros 3mo agoI ask because usually hu is two sounds, so it would be transliterated as two letters. If you mean it used to be hü, then yes, you'd lose the umlauts in the transliteration, and it would just become "χου", with a hard h, not an aspirated one.
- DonaldPShimoda 3mo agoYeahhh currently considering going through the legal name-change process to move one of my family names to a middle name or something. It's made all the worse by the fact that my parents didn't always use both family names when I was growing up, so some legal documents disagree on what my "last name" is.
- radarsat1 3mo agoI can sympathize, the Spanish naming system makes things legitimately complicated sometimes. My wife has a Spanish style name Firstname(s) Fathername Mothername. But very very often she just goes by Firstname Fathername but it's not technically her legal name and is confusing in the non Spanish world because people assume otherwise that Mothername is her last name. So for our son we decided to try to skip any confusion by doing what you are alluding to, and making her Fathername into his middle name, and giving him just my last name, in the English style. And it worked, sort of, but then we discovered it was absolutely not legal to do that in my wife's country of origin. So kind of hilariously his registration in that country is: Firstname Mothername Fathername Mothername. They forced us to repeat the middle name as part of his last name too. Just ridiculous. I thought at the least they would allow us to reverse them, but no.
- ____tom____ 3mo agoI find this follow on article really helpful: https://shinesolutions.com/2018/01/08/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names-with-examples/ https://shinesolutions.com/2018/01/08/falsehoods-programmers... It contains concrete examples of each of the ideas listed in the first article.
- Muskwalker 3mo agoThe author there reads the point "Two different data entry operators, given a person’s name, will by necessity enter bitwise equivalent strings on any single system, if the system is well-designed" by thinking in terms of erroneous spelling, but also relevant is encoding issues such as lookalike characters. Peter Biľak gives a story on bumping into this for the accent in his name. https://www.typotheque.com/articles/lcaron https://www.typotheque.com/articles/lcaron
- YeGoblynQueenne 3mo ago>> Try to interact with the Greek government and they might ask you to spell your name using only their characters. An interesting challenge when your name contains sounds that don't exist in the local language (sh, hu). Seen from the other side, a friend of mine called Γωγώ (short for Γεωργία, i.e. Georgia) spelled her name "Roro" when she went to France. The standard transliteration would be "Gogo" but the French would pronounce that like "go-go", whereas they pronounce the "R/r" like Greeks pronounce the "Γ/γ". And how about all the Greek women who take on their father's spelling of the family name in English-speaking languages (as have I)? E.g. Olympia Dukakis: that's a male form (Δουκάκης); the female is "Doukaki" (Δουκάκη). But, try to explain that to speakers of a language without grammatical genders. Sounds more like a spelling error. I understand that Icelanding families have a similar problem, with surnames that name the parent, so that if the father's first name e.g. Bjorn, the son's surname would be Bjornsson and the daughter's name would be Bjornsdottir, with the father and mather's surname being whatever -son or -dottir reflects their ancestry. Can cause trouble when going through passport control as a family with underage kids all with different surnames.
- kokanee 4mo agoHow do they handle this in Brazil? Is there a standard for which portion of a name shows up on credit cards and ID cards and such?
- pavel_lishin 4mo agoA question for any Portuguese or Spanish speakers here, which I think are languages and cultures in which these sorts of name patterns are common - when you see a name like "Roberto Antonio Ferreira De Almeida", is it obvious where the "given" name stops, and the "family name" starts? I'm guessing in this case it's fairly obvious, since I'm guessing Ferreira is analogous to something like Smith, but are there names where it's not obvious? And are things like middle names even a thing there? Or is it all "given name consisting of several words"?
- dietr1ch 4mo agoNot ambiguous really. You know it's <first> (<second/middle>) (<third (rare)>)? (<dad's surname>) (<mom's surname>) and names are typically a single WORD, but may (rarely) have a prefix like De/Della (except for the first name). --- Well, this guys mentions they treat "Roberto Antonio" as a single name, and not as a first and second/middle name. I don't see it that way (Spanish, Chile). Here there's a lot of way too common first names (María, José), so most go by both or just he second one, but legally they just have a common first name (and thus, many systems use both names to avoid confusion over mail and email).
- dodecaphonic 4mo agoBrazilian here. Around these parts, middle names are not a thing. They don’t show up in forms, and also aren’t expected to exist. When the names before the family names are multiple, we call them “nomes compostos” (composed/combined names). There are very common combinations, such as “Carlos Eduardo” and “Maria Clara”. If someone named “Maria Clara Guimarães Schindhelm” fills out a form, they’ll say their given name is “Maria Clara”, with the rest being the surname. Knowing where the given name ends is an exercise in pattern recognition. We have a sense of what’s a given name, and a sense of what’s a surname. It’s an imperfect system, though: some families have surnames that are also used as first/given names (a common one is “Francisco”).
- kxkdkdjxkwk 3mo ago> Around these parts, middle names are not a thing. Not sure where you’re getting that from. Middle names are very much a thing in Brazil. You don’t often find forms with separate fields for middle names but middle names are ridiculously common nonetheless.
- 01284a7e 4mo agoSo Pelé is just a handle then, eh?
- dyingkneepad 3mo agoIt's a nickname: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9
- aranaur 4mo agoThe general complexity of name changes will never cease to intrigue me.
- kulahan 3mo agoSeems about as complex as time zones - that is to say, it requires far more thought than any of us realistically put in. Apparently the Japanese just… chose family names at some point in the late 1800s. They all had to, basically overnight as far as these things are considered.
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- pizzafeelsright 3mo agoWhat would your name be if your father had not named you that?
- Jhsto 3mo agoI have this weird thing about a birthday -- for some reason, I was assigned a different birth date in NHS records in the UK compared to the one I have in my native Finland. I want to believe it has something to do with electronic systems transacting with different countries' systems (I noticed this difference soon after I exchanged my driver license) -- and I would have indeed born on a different day if it'd been the UK. But, I would assume this to be such a well-known issue with people who migrate, that it must just been just a typo. Doesn't stop me from believing though.
- netsharc 3mo agoDid they really take the time of birth into consideration? I suppose that could be an issue with poorly made electronic data exchange, passing along the time and timezone for a field which should be just for the date.
- TacticalCoder 3mo agoThere are plenty of older Polish people living in countries like Belgium who are born in a city that's can be translated to "Blue". How comes? For the color of the eyes used to be present on Polish ID cards / official documents (maybe still is, dunno). And a great many people in non-polish speaking countries read the wrong line for "place of birth".
- nicbou 3mo agoMy German residence permit cut 10 centimeters off my height. Typos on the address registration form (which is printed by the resident, then typed back into a computer by a civil servant) frequently has typos too.
- sdunford 3mo agoGreat article!, Beto is otherwise an amazing programmer great to see him here.
- syradar 3mo agoSweden actually removed middle names. I believe now you can have 1–2 last names, 1+ first names and 0 middle names. You can choose a given name that you are called which can be different than the first names but usually isn’t. This causes problems with forms and at airports that don’t allow for Swedish name rules.
- ibash 3mo ago[dead]
- assimpleaspossi 3mo agoI've always wondered about a woman, Mary Jones, marrying Tom Smith and deciding to hyphenate her last name with Mary Jones-Smith. But then she has a daughter Sally Jones-Smith who meets and marries John Alexander-Wabasha and wants to hyphenate her name as Sally Jones-Smith-Alexander-Wabasha. Then she has kids that marry.
- ____tom____ 3mo agoI knew two hyphenates who got married. They picked one non-hyphenated last name.
- anticorporate 3mo agoAs problematic as national IDs and related things are are, I do someone wish my country would just assign me a universal identity number and let me use that for all government documents. Names are just too deeply personal to impose someone else's rules on them.
- dgllghr 3mo agoI think many people are scared of "being reduced to a number" but I wonder if, psychologically, codes like p7jn8-h would go over better.
- arjie 3mo agoWhen we named our daughter, we decided to ensure that she’d have a simple FirstName LastName with no middle name. My wife’s middle name is frequently stapled onto her first and it causes no end of pain. There is some affordance available for representing various family members: her Chinese name can easily have different characters for them that have nothing to do with her actual name.
- CatMustard 3mo agoIt can go the other way. My partner has no middle name and recently got a formal letter from the HSE (Irish national health service) addressed to "Sorcha No Name Ní Shúilleabháin"* *not her actual first and last name to be clear, not doxxing her on HN.
- Michael874738 3mo agocongrats!
- RickJWagner 3mo agoCongratulations, and welcome to America. Now you have an interesting story to tell your grateful descendants. :)