6 ms·

Laws restricting the use of local AI/LLMs are not going to happen, no matter how much Anthropic might want it. All the major OEMs are now counting on local LLMs

Laws restricting the use of local AI/LLMs are not going to happen, no matter how much Anthropic might want it. All the major OEMs are now counting on local LLMs to take off. Just look at the OEM support for the upcoming Nvidia RTX Spark platform: Asus, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Microsoft, MSI. All the big names in the industry will have, by the end of this year, Nvidia-powered machines made specifically for local LLM use.

deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
matheusmoreira 3mo ago
Don't doubt it. Situation is fluid. Anything could happen.
- XorNot 3mo ago
  Its just so much easier to be a rebel for an imaginary cause then any of the real ones.
  - deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]
  - SamPatt 3mo ago
    The entire point is to stop it from needing to be a cause in the first place. Trying to establish the right to run models locally while we still can makes more sense than waiting to see if they do try, then organizing too late.
  - Der_Einzige 3mo ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_Without_a_Cause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_Without_a_Cause
dofm 3mo ago
And Adobe! I've always figured their heart can't really be in the business of running a cloud platform that has to decide what people can and can't edit. Blackmagic Design too. They are all desperate for Windows to run well on a chip with unified VRAM.
- prima-facie 3mo ago
  Well, we could expect anything from Adobe. An LLM subscription on top of the regular Adobe subscription sounds like the sort of thing they would do. Do your local filters run slow? Does your movie render have no sass? Then sign-up for AaaS!
  - dofm 3mo ago
    They effectively do have a generative AI plan on top of regular Creative Cloud. Generative credits auto-top-up I think? But it must be an epic pain for them to maintain when they are really a software company, and AI tools really should be able to do most of their work locally. Affinity has some local model support for example. I am sure they are going to have to maintain cloud support for those features for a long time, but it's all a much easier sell if you can also run it locally.
baq 3mo ago
There’s a combined $3T+ of capital which is at least in some position to benefit from local AI ban. Don’t underestimate this
- delecti 3mo ago
  There's a lot of capital that stands to gain from banning local AI, but there's also a lot that wins either way, or only wins if local AI sticks around. Apple is paying for their cloud AI, but they can make customers buy devices for local AI. There's all the PC and Android handset makers (ASUS, HP, countless Chinese brands, etc.) who only really stand to gain from selling hardware to customers. Not to mention that Nvidia/AMD/Intel would all happily take a cut on both halves of the ecosystem.
hahahaa 3mo ago
If big biz wants it, it'll only run signed blob models and prolly send telemetry.
- iugtmkbdfil834 3mo ago
  Point is.. if I want to run equivalent of GNU model with zero blobs or other corporate silliness, I should be able to.
  - hahahaa 3mo ago
    We should absolutely yes
KeplerBoy 3mo ago
Isn't the RTX Spark from every OEM just nvidia throwing a bone to their decade long partners after nvidia crashed the regular PC market?
gonzalohm 3mo ago
You seem to be so sure, but lobbying in the US can do incredible (and stupid) things. Look at the 3d printing control laws that are being passed in NY
- prima-facie 3mo ago
  And this is exactly my point, the OEMs have more lobbying power and leverage. Anthropic might be valuated at whatever amount, but they're a new player and their only product is a piece of software - which others like Google, OpenAI, etc also have (not identical but similar enough). EDIT: FYI https://ibb.co/nMYP34Rr https://ibb.co/nMYP34Rr
  - gonzalohm 3mo ago
    And you think Google, one of the biggest cloud providers, Microsoft, etc. are going to be onboard with local LLMs? I don't think so
    - ThunderSizzle 3mo ago
      They'll do local LLMs you have to pay for. Best of both worlds: your LLM processing power will be locked behind a subscription. You'll be coerced into a subscription to unlock the processing power you already have, and it'll only be usable by official Microsoft, etc implementations. They get your money, get to control you, and best of all, they don't have to run it themselves in their data centers
      - jaapz 3mo ago
        Have we seen this with CPU's being throttled only to have to pay a subscription for more performance? Or GPU's? Or memory? Or storage?
        ThunderSizzle 3mo ago
        The obvious brain-child of this concept is HP and their consumer inkjet printers. Originally, they sold their printers for "cheap" and then sold ink for a premium. However, as consumers realized any old printer ink works just as well as "HP"'s ink, they created DRM for ink-cartridges. Now, you have to basically use their "Instant Ink" monthly service in order to print anything, based on my understanding. $6 for 50 pages a month: https://www.hp.com/us-en/print https://www.hp.com/us-en/print (If you try using non-official cartridges, the printer may refuse to print entirely. If you cancel the sub, the printer will refuse to print until you renew or find DRM ink). LG is pushing for subscription models in their fridge line-ups: https://www.pcmag.com/news/lg-wants-you-to-subscribe-to-your-fridge https://www.pcmag.com/news/lg-wants-you-to-subscribe-to-your... I don't see a price for the subscription yet, but it seems they are targeting 2030 for a subscription fee lock-in. Intel did "Intel Upgrade Service", which locked already fabricated features on a CPU behind what is equivalent to today's same-day DLC - you paid more money, got a code, and it unlocked more cache and/or hyperthreading capabilities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Upgrade_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Upgrade_Service The backlash in 2010 on Intel was probably severe enough to delay it significantly, but with many industries trying it out (Cameras, TV's, fridges, cars, etc.), consumers probably won't have many options left.
Razengan 3mo ago
> Laws restricting the use of local AI/LLMs are not going to happen Are you sure? There are already laws against what you can do at home with very basic (pun) fundamentals of reality like chemistry. Someone simply searching for "How to assassinate Trump" could get arrested for a thought crime. Hell this comment alone likely set off a few flags. Imagine someone running an AI at home and asking it for planning a hit on someone. Cue same media fearmongering wave as with 3D printed guns and woohoo now it's mandatory for operating systems to watch your screen and all your keystrokes. Fuck I probably gave some of the control freaks in power some ideas there :(
ang_cire 3mo ago
I think you are assuming those companies won't sign on to be on a list of "authorized model operators", while letting it become illegal for you to run deepseek yourself.
sometimelurker 3mo ago
it would be so easy to rent GPUs in europe and use unbannable encryption (tor,i2p if needed) to get inference from them. that remaining as an option makes banning local AI pointless. if all else fails I'm sure china will be able to sell to NK some GPUs and we can get inference from them lmao
mrmckizzle 3mo ago
Can you use an LLM to teach you how to build a gun or use it to design a gun for you build? Can an LLM be used to generate images of young people for older perverts? If yes, then it's not very hard to make the argument that you need to be licensed in order to run an LLM on your local machine. Why wouldn't you want to be licensed? Are you against protecting children and public safety? Many students die from gun violence every year and massive amounts of minors are taken advantage of by human filth. Why would you be against protecting the most vulnerable in our society? It will look good for politicians who pass legislation to "protect" the vulnerable. Potentially improving the chances of another term due to the marketing benefits of pushing such a law through. I think you are mistaken believing that this may never happen.
- iugtmkbdfil834 3mo ago
  Yeah. I suspect parent either is very optimistic or does not know how restricted current batch of language models are already or does not recognize that, while it may some time to completely neuter, they do have time. It seems that powers that be learned something from the world wide web deployment.
- linkregister 3mo ago
  In the US, attaching legislation like that to firearms instructions would doom its success. It sounds like a great idea to ratfuck a potential bill. No Republican would be able to pass a bill that bans local agents from helping citizens exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. The politics are probably different in other countries. We're still seeing Chat Control efforts in the EU.
  - andai 3mo ago
    https://xkcd.com/504/ https://xkcd.com/504/ > I think the crypto community took the wrong side in that fight. We should have lobbied to keep it counted as weaponry. > Why? > Once they get complacent, we break out the second amendment.
  - mrmckizzle 3mo ago
    That is the one of the main reasons they passed the law to limit 3-d printers. https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/keeping-new-yorkers-safe-governor-hochul-signs-legislation-strengthen-public-safety-and-make?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/keeping-new-yorkers-safe-go... Now where I could agree with you is if you made the argument on a state-by-state level. Pretty sure what you said would hold up in Texas
AlexandrB 3mo ago
I love how Nvidia is playing both sides. No matter whether AI's future is local or on the cloud, they come out ahead. I suspect they're going to be the biggest beneficiaries from the AI run up.

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

matheusmoreira 3mo ago

Don't doubt it. Situation is fluid. Anything could happen.

XorNot 3mo ago
Its just so much easier to be a rebel for an imaginary cause then any of the real ones.
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
- SamPatt 3mo ago
  The entire point is to stop it from needing to be a cause in the first place. Trying to establish the right to run models locally while we still can makes more sense than waiting to see if they do try, then organizing too late.
- Der_Einzige 3mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_Without_a_Cause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_Without_a_Cause

dofm 3mo ago

And Adobe! I've always figured their heart can't really be in the business of running a cloud platform that has to decide what people can and can't edit. Blackmagic Design too. They are all desperate for Windows to run well on a chip with unified VRAM.

prima-facie 3mo ago
Well, we could expect anything from Adobe. An LLM subscription on top of the regular Adobe subscription sounds like the sort of thing they would do. Do your local filters run slow? Does your movie render have no sass? Then sign-up for AaaS!
- dofm 3mo ago
  They effectively do have a generative AI plan on top of regular Creative Cloud. Generative credits auto-top-up I think? But it must be an epic pain for them to maintain when they are really a software company, and AI tools really should be able to do most of their work locally. Affinity has some local model support for example. I am sure they are going to have to maintain cloud support for those features for a long time, but it's all a much easier sell if you can also run it locally.

baq 3mo ago

There’s a combined $3T+ of capital which is at least in some position to benefit from local AI ban. Don’t underestimate this

delecti 3mo ago
There's a lot of capital that stands to gain from banning local AI, but there's also a lot that wins either way, or only wins if local AI sticks around. Apple is paying for their cloud AI, but they can make customers buy devices for local AI. There's all the PC and Android handset makers (ASUS, HP, countless Chinese brands, etc.) who only really stand to gain from selling hardware to customers. Not to mention that Nvidia/AMD/Intel would all happily take a cut on both halves of the ecosystem.

hahahaa 3mo ago

If big biz wants it, it'll only run signed blob models and prolly send telemetry.

iugtmkbdfil834 3mo ago
Point is.. if I want to run equivalent of GNU model with zero blobs or other corporate silliness, I should be able to.
- hahahaa 3mo ago
  We should absolutely yes

KeplerBoy 3mo ago

Isn't the RTX Spark from every OEM just nvidia throwing a bone to their decade long partners after nvidia crashed the regular PC market?

gonzalohm 3mo ago

You seem to be so sure, but lobbying in the US can do incredible (and stupid) things. Look at the 3d printing control laws that are being passed in NY

prima-facie 3mo ago
And this is exactly my point, the OEMs have more lobbying power and leverage. Anthropic might be valuated at whatever amount, but they're a new player and their only product is a piece of software - which others like Google, OpenAI, etc also have (not identical but similar enough). EDIT: FYI https://ibb.co/nMYP34Rr https://ibb.co/nMYP34Rr
- gonzalohm 3mo ago
  And you think Google, one of the biggest cloud providers, Microsoft, etc. are going to be onboard with local LLMs? I don't think so
  - ThunderSizzle 3mo ago
    They'll do local LLMs you have to pay for. Best of both worlds: your LLM processing power will be locked behind a subscription. You'll be coerced into a subscription to unlock the processing power you already have, and it'll only be usable by official Microsoft, etc implementations. They get your money, get to control you, and best of all, they don't have to run it themselves in their data centers
    - jaapz 3mo ago
      Have we seen this with CPU's being throttled only to have to pay a subscription for more performance? Or GPU's? Or memory? Or storage?
      - ThunderSizzle 3mo ago
        The obvious brain-child of this concept is HP and their consumer inkjet printers. Originally, they sold their printers for "cheap" and then sold ink for a premium. However, as consumers realized any old printer ink works just as well as "HP"'s ink, they created DRM for ink-cartridges. Now, you have to basically use their "Instant Ink" monthly service in order to print anything, based on my understanding. $6 for 50 pages a month: https://www.hp.com/us-en/print https://www.hp.com/us-en/print (If you try using non-official cartridges, the printer may refuse to print entirely. If you cancel the sub, the printer will refuse to print until you renew or find DRM ink). LG is pushing for subscription models in their fridge line-ups: https://www.pcmag.com/news/lg-wants-you-to-subscribe-to-your-fridge https://www.pcmag.com/news/lg-wants-you-to-subscribe-to-your... I don't see a price for the subscription yet, but it seems they are targeting 2030 for a subscription fee lock-in. Intel did "Intel Upgrade Service", which locked already fabricated features on a CPU behind what is equivalent to today's same-day DLC - you paid more money, got a code, and it unlocked more cache and/or hyperthreading capabilities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Upgrade_Service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Upgrade_Service The backlash in 2010 on Intel was probably severe enough to delay it significantly, but with many industries trying it out (Cameras, TV's, fridges, cars, etc.), consumers probably won't have many options left.

Razengan 3mo ago

> Laws restricting the use of local AI/LLMs are not going to happen Are you sure? There are already laws against what you can do at home with very basic (pun) fundamentals of reality like chemistry. Someone simply searching for "How to assassinate Trump" could get arrested for a thought crime. Hell this comment alone likely set off a few flags. Imagine someone running an AI at home and asking it for planning a hit on someone. Cue same media fearmongering wave as with 3D printed guns and woohoo now it's mandatory for operating systems to watch your screen and all your keystrokes. Fuck I probably gave some of the control freaks in power some ideas there :(

ang_cire 3mo ago

I think you are assuming those companies won't sign on to be on a list of "authorized model operators", while letting it become illegal for you to run deepseek yourself.

sometimelurker 3mo ago

it would be so easy to rent GPUs in europe and use unbannable encryption (tor,i2p if needed) to get inference from them. that remaining as an option makes banning local AI pointless. if all else fails I'm sure china will be able to sell to NK some GPUs and we can get inference from them lmao

mrmckizzle 3mo ago

Can you use an LLM to teach you how to build a gun or use it to design a gun for you build? Can an LLM be used to generate images of young people for older perverts? If yes, then it's not very hard to make the argument that you need to be licensed in order to run an LLM on your local machine. Why wouldn't you want to be licensed? Are you against protecting children and public safety? Many students die from gun violence every year and massive amounts of minors are taken advantage of by human filth. Why would you be against protecting the most vulnerable in our society? It will look good for politicians who pass legislation to "protect" the vulnerable. Potentially improving the chances of another term due to the marketing benefits of pushing such a law through. I think you are mistaken believing that this may never happen.

iugtmkbdfil834 3mo ago
Yeah. I suspect parent either is very optimistic or does not know how restricted current batch of language models are already or does not recognize that, while it may some time to completely neuter, they do have time. It seems that powers that be learned something from the world wide web deployment.
linkregister 3mo ago
In the US, attaching legislation like that to firearms instructions would doom its success. It sounds like a great idea to ratfuck a potential bill. No Republican would be able to pass a bill that bans local agents from helping citizens exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. The politics are probably different in other countries. We're still seeing Chat Control efforts in the EU.
- andai 3mo ago
  https://xkcd.com/504/ https://xkcd.com/504/ > I think the crypto community took the wrong side in that fight. We should have lobbied to keep it counted as weaponry. > Why? > Once they get complacent, we break out the second amendment.
- mrmckizzle 3mo ago
  That is the one of the main reasons they passed the law to limit 3-d printers. https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/keeping-new-yorkers-safe-governor-hochul-signs-legislation-strengthen-public-safety-and-make?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/keeping-new-yorkers-safe-go... Now where I could agree with you is if you made the argument on a state-by-state level. Pretty sure what you said would hold up in Texas

AlexandrB 3mo ago

I love how Nvidia is playing both sides. No matter whether AI's future is local or on the cloud, they come out ahead. I suspect they're going to be the biggest beneficiaries from the AI run up.