4 ms·

These are basically meant as tarriffs, right?

by frollogaston 4mo ago

pjc50 4mo ago
You could address the underlying issue?
- xienze 4mo ago
  > Google has attempted to allay the Commission’s concerns over the years such as allowing Android users to switch between search engines and browsers so they are not tied to the company’s apps.
  - tgv 4mo ago
    Two words: Google Play.
    - frollogaston 4mo ago
      What about Google Play, did the EU tell Google not to preinstall the Play store or else get fined?
SockThief 4mo ago
> In 2018, the European Commission slapped Google with the record-breaking penalty on the grounds that it abused Android's mobile dominance... What do you think?
- nba456_ 4mo ago
  Yes?
  - frollogaston 4mo ago
    Yes, looks like the classic where everyone is at legal risk and they're going to selectively use it. The article also mentions individual countries' digital services taxes where they dropped the pretense.
bilekas 4mo ago
No, these are anti-trust fines. If you want to participate in the EU zone, you can't have monopolistic behaviors. It might sound strange for the US, but you can't simply corner a market and then claim it's innovation and 'good for the customer'. The EU has a LONG history of these regulations, it's nothing new but the more rich a company becomes the more these fines are just the price of doing business. Instead, here's a wild take. Why don't they just follow the regulations and continue to make profits.
- hparadiz 4mo ago
  Google made Android open source for free and you can even see this on this on HN as everyone glazes GrapheneOS. Without Android there would not be an entire ecosystem of software. Google even complied with a previous rulings about search engine choice and browser choice. In fact Android has always allowed you to set those things. As usual Europe can't innovate so just taxes people out of their market entirely. Why would anyone want to locate their business in Europe after reading a headline like this? Have you guys ever considered making your own operating system? Your own tech companies?
  - 4thguy 4mo ago
    I think you might need to reconsider how open Android actually is given the recent moves.
    - hparadiz 4mo ago
      You don't even know how good you have it. With incentives like this what company would make anything open in the future? You're punishing them for it. They're gonna make it like iOS precisely because of rulings like this.
      - 4thguy 4mo ago
        I'm sorry, but what does "pre-installation deals with smartphone makers" have to do with being open?
      - 4mo ago
xienze 4mo ago
More like an ATM. Need some money? Let an American tech company operate with no issue for years and then one day "whoa we checked and you've been violating <some vaguely-defined law about privacy> for years. Who knew? That'll be five billion Euros please."
- realusername 4mo ago
  If anything, the EU has been slow to act, these companies have been operating against all possible antitrust laws for years and continue to do so despite being fined, probably the fine isn't large enough.
- hparadiz 4mo ago
  That's literally what is happening here. It's a shakedown. Nothing more.
  - petesergeant 4mo ago
    > It's a shakedown. Nothing more. Perhaps believable, had it not survived eight years of litigation ending at the ECJ, or had there been some informal "pay up or else" demand attached, neither of which is true.
    - xienze 4mo ago
      > Perhaps believable, had it not survived eight years of litigation ending at the ECJ You're of course making the assumption the ECJ isn't biased towards ruling in favor of the EU in these disputes... > or had there been some informal "pay up or else" demand attached, neither of which is true. Isn't there a formal "pay up or else" demand attached? If Google doesn't pay, then what? I would take this a lot more seriously if the EU said "look, these violations are so egregious we simply can't trust you to operate in the EU anymore." No, they're OK with Google apparently not changing much of anything and being allowed to continue operating so long as they pay the fine first.
      - cbg0 4mo ago
petesergeant 4mo ago
No, but they'll be treated them as such by the administration, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing
ben_w 4mo ago
No. A tariff is something paid to import a product or service, this is a fine for breaking laws. If I visited the US, rented a car, drove it down a freeway at 120 mph, I'd likely get fined. If I make a car and sell it and the buyer happens to be in the US, that buyer would have to pay the tariff.

These are basically meant as tarriffs, right?

pjc50 4mo ago

You could address the underlying issue?

xienze 4mo ago
> Google has attempted to allay the Commission’s concerns over the years such as allowing Android users to switch between search engines and browsers so they are not tied to the company’s apps.
- tgv 4mo ago
  Two words: Google Play.
  - frollogaston 4mo ago
    What about Google Play, did the EU tell Google not to preinstall the Play store or else get fined?

SockThief 4mo ago

> In 2018, the European Commission slapped Google with the record-breaking penalty on the grounds that it abused Android's mobile dominance... What do you think?

nba456_ 4mo ago
Yes?
- frollogaston 4mo ago
  Yes, looks like the classic where everyone is at legal risk and they're going to selectively use it. The article also mentions individual countries' digital services taxes where they dropped the pretense.

bilekas 4mo ago

No, these are anti-trust fines. If you want to participate in the EU zone, you can't have monopolistic behaviors. It might sound strange for the US, but you can't simply corner a market and then claim it's innovation and 'good for the customer'. The EU has a LONG history of these regulations, it's nothing new but the more rich a company becomes the more these fines are just the price of doing business. Instead, here's a wild take. Why don't they just follow the regulations and continue to make profits.

hparadiz 4mo ago
Google made Android open source for free and you can even see this on this on HN as everyone glazes GrapheneOS. Without Android there would not be an entire ecosystem of software. Google even complied with a previous rulings about search engine choice and browser choice. In fact Android has always allowed you to set those things. As usual Europe can't innovate so just taxes people out of their market entirely. Why would anyone want to locate their business in Europe after reading a headline like this? Have you guys ever considered making your own operating system? Your own tech companies?
- 4thguy 4mo ago
  I think you might need to reconsider how open Android actually is given the recent moves.
  - hparadiz 4mo ago
    You don't even know how good you have it. With incentives like this what company would make anything open in the future? You're punishing them for it. They're gonna make it like iOS precisely because of rulings like this.
    - 4thguy 4mo ago
      I'm sorry, but what does "pre-installation deals with smartphone makers" have to do with being open?
    - 4mo ago

xienze 4mo ago

More like an ATM. Need some money? Let an American tech company operate with no issue for years and then one day "whoa we checked and you've been violating <some vaguely-defined law about privacy> for years. Who knew? That'll be five billion Euros please."

realusername 4mo ago
If anything, the EU has been slow to act, these companies have been operating against all possible antitrust laws for years and continue to do so despite being fined, probably the fine isn't large enough.
hparadiz 4mo ago
That's literally what is happening here. It's a shakedown. Nothing more.
- petesergeant 4mo ago
  > It's a shakedown. Nothing more. Perhaps believable, had it not survived eight years of litigation ending at the ECJ, or had there been some informal "pay up or else" demand attached, neither of which is true.
  - xienze 4mo ago
    > Perhaps believable, had it not survived eight years of litigation ending at the ECJ You're of course making the assumption the ECJ isn't biased towards ruling in favor of the EU in these disputes... > or had there been some informal "pay up or else" demand attached, neither of which is true. Isn't there a formal "pay up or else" demand attached? If Google doesn't pay, then what? I would take this a lot more seriously if the EU said "look, these violations are so egregious we simply can't trust you to operate in the EU anymore." No, they're OK with Google apparently not changing much of anything and being allowed to continue operating so long as they pay the fine first.
    - cbg0 4mo ago

petesergeant 4mo ago

No, but they'll be treated them as such by the administration, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing

ben_w 4mo ago

No. A tariff is something paid to import a product or service, this is a fine for breaking laws. If I visited the US, rented a car, drove it down a freeway at 120 mph, I'd likely get fined. If I make a car and sell it and the buyer happens to be in the US, that buyer would have to pay the tariff.