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This is just one step away from eugenics. When the data is in the machine, you just know it will be used for malicious activities.
by newqer 3mo ago
This is just one step away from eugenics. When the data is in the machine, you just know it will be used for malicious activities.
- eru 3mo agoYou say it like applying that label automatically makes it a bad thing. See https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/galton-ehrlich-buck https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/galton-ehrlich-buck for an elaboration.
- trollbridge 3mo agoSo far, the gathering of great deals of data on people has not been used for purposes that benefit such people. For example, one of the biggest uses of mass surveillance and data collection is to improve the targeting of marketing, which generally does not benefit the people being marketed to, and indeed often is done to their detriment. And then a side effect of all of this is that this huge mass of data is just sitting there to be used for even more nefarious purposes. I can easily imagine a world where an end user is required to submit their genetic data in order to prove their age for an age-controlled app, for example.
- nedruod 3mo agoSure, you can imagine it, but you should be able to imagine better solutions too. Far easier to ask for a government ID, or better yet, have a third party, which is trusted, use a cross-check, so that the raw data is never shared, just a binary, yes/no to the age check. If we only imagine the bad outcomes, we'll miss on many good ones. And part of those misses will be worse bad outcomes. For example, if you object to the creation of a third party that could validate your age, what you get is a direct ask for your ID, which is the current reality and far worse.
- trollbridge 3mo agoI really don’t want to be forced to contract with a third party in order to do basic things like be able to buy something in a store.
- eru 3mo agoI guess you don't like paying with a credit card?
- eru 3mo ago> So far, the gathering of great deals of data on people has not been used for purposes that benefit such people. Do you know how they make shoes or clothing off-the-rack that fit most people?
- fragmede 3mo agoIs it malicious to abort a baby before it has a heartbeat at six weeks because it will have Downs syndrome?
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- otaconjh 3mo agoA few stats I just looked up on people with downs syndrome: - Over 90% of children are enrolled in public school. - 79% of those are in general education classrooms. - Approx. 50% of adults are employed.
- someonebaggy 3mo ago50% is awfully low for today's system where you are employed or starving or someone else is your carer.
- zipy124 3mo agoThe employment rate in the USA is only like 59%. Amongst Men over 20 years old it's ~68% and woman ~56% so it's actually not that far off the average.
- vlian2088 3mo ago[flagged]
- RobotToaster 3mo agoHe also drank water.
- dang 3mo agoCould you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- vlian2088 3mo agoI'm responding to flamebait, not posting it. and expressing my point of view in a sentence or two instead of the usual walls of watered down text common here does not make it unsubstantive.
- dang 3mo agoIf you mean you aren't intending to post flamebait, of course I believe you, but your posts have certainly been flamebaity in the sense that we use the term here, which is mostly about the effects such posts tend to have (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=troll%20effects%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...). Snark, provocation, denunciatory rhetoric, comments with high indignation/information ratio - all this is against the site guidelines. We're not talking about borderline calls here!
- cm2187 3mo agoThe problem is "eugenics" has two meanings which is unhelpful for this discussion. 1) criminal practices of forced sterilisations, ethnic cleansing and mass assassinations to phase out undesired genes 2) the more generic practice of trying to improve the genetic characteristics of your children. I don't think there is much point in debating 1). But we would be naive to think we are not already doing 2). What else is a prenatal test for down syndrome? What else is selecting your mating partner for desirable characteristics? In animals it's called breeding and it works pretty well. And if you can patch the DNA of your kids to remove potential risks of cancers or other deficiencies, why wouldn't you? Is it better to let cancer take its toll?
- Avicebron 3mo agoThe issue is where do you draw the line with 2)? What does "improve the genetic characteristics of your children" mean in practice? Everyone starts with 2) and then it creeps into 1).
- arghwhat 3mo agoThere is no path that turns "I would like to terminate my pregnancy if the outcome is unfavorable" into "I would like to commit genocide on everyone whose genetics I do not like". Granted, someone who already wishes for or aligns with the idea of ethnic cleansing might start by only publicly sharing their wish for the former to begin with, but I don't see a sensible argument for it being a natural extension of the former.
- cm2187 3mo agoI agree, though one could make the argument that our modern nanny states have been pretty brutal at enforcing health policies during covid, and if they convince themselves that they can eradicate certain diseases by mandating DNA patching or pregnancy terminations, them doing so "for our own good" is in the realm of the possible. But we are in coercion territory. What I am saying that we already practice eugenics without coercion, we just don't call it that.
- t1234s 3mo agoEugenics was rebranded "Genetics" after the war.
- amelius 3mo agoWe're turning into bananas. > Almost all commercially sold bananas (the Cavendish variety) are exact genetic clones
- sometimelurker 3mo agoThe antidote to that (I think, I've got loose vibes about biology and genetics) would probably be introducing more variation via some manipulation of the genome, maybe crispr?
- hoppp 3mo agoThat's why at-home sequencing should become the norm. But to be fair, I see no issues with genetic testing of embryos that could still be aborted. If a person would grow up with a serious illness it could be considered. But then genetic modification should be accessible too, to preserve the life but update the code.
- inglor_cz 3mo agoWe shouldn't let biology and genetics be forever kept hostage by the fact that 100 years ago some racists (who did not even know what DNA was) used crude mechanisms like castration to push their specific forms of social engineering. There is a lot of potential problems written into your exome, and some of them can be prevented. Treating a condition which has already taken hold is much more complicated and often less successful. Personalized medicine is pretty much the only way forward nowadays.