4 ms·

Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? And yes, not every regulation destroys monopoly, but regulation is the only thing

Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? And yes, not every regulation destroys monopoly, but regulation is the only thing that could break one.

nba456_ 4mo ago
> Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? No.
- maybewhenthesun 4mo ago
  19th century begs to differ. A better answer would be 'not always'. The proposed regulations forcing everybody to use google or apple are ridiculous and very much the opposite of the kind of regulations we need though...
  - ulbu 4mo ago
    or “sometimes not, until more data arrives”.
Arkhaine_kupo 4mo ago
> Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? No. Monopolies are only inevitable if the goods aren't elastic, if there is a large cost of entry into the market, or if its a market you can create a moat that is unsurmountable. Many markets don't have that even with 0 regulation, but might have second order problems like firms creating unsafe products for example. But in general regulations almost always even unindentedly raise the cost to enter the market. If you make a new regulation that food needs to be safe, then the company needs to pay a safety inspection that a small home-made recipe might not be able to afford (to give a simple example). At the same time, we now have uber large corporations due to non elastic parts of supply chain (like land) or moats that are insurmountable (like access to US capital). In which case, the FCC should break up monopolies as the current market is not catering to end users and consumers but to owners, which is why the Stock market has been in a never ending bull run.
- throwwwll 4mo ago
  [flagged]
  - philipallstar 4mo ago
    > Spoken like a true 120-year who trusts blindly everything he hears online from Rothbard This ad hominem stuff is genuinely worthless.
    - maybewhenthesun 4mo ago
      I don't think so. Because the theories about elastic markets and monopolies do have a high 'spherical frictionless cow` smell. And they are posed here as gospel. So while it might be a bit of an ad hominem to frame someone as a 120 year old it does succinctly point out a problem and hence adds information.
      - hypeatei 4mo ago
        > And they are posed here as gospel The same could be said for people who suggest regulation for every problem that comes up, even for problems that were caused by regulation. Maybe we have our blindspots, but the "regulate everything" crowd is much louder and more prevalent on HN than the free market absolutists.
        throwwwll 4mo ago
        Here's another ad-hominem (to another poster), cause you guys just cannot argue in good faith: Spoken like a true American who had long-forgotten nuance exists.
      - philipallstar 4mo ago
        Things "having a smell" is not an argument, and they weren't posed as gospel. I've yet to see anyone counter the basic points of that post, because they look pretty solid. Happy if you have a non-vibes based rebuttal.
Chu4eeno 4mo ago
Are there any examples of monopolies being (successfully) broken up in Europe? Or do you posit that regulation stop them from forming?
- raverbashing 4mo ago
  Look into the mechanisms being worked on to create competition in rail operators (which has been opening the markets to competitor rail operators)
- doikor 4mo ago
  Pre WW2 Europe was full of (state backed) cartels and monopolies. These were dismantled for the most part. A lot of these were international. Just read up on "Cartel capitalism". https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/enterprise-and-society/article/monopoly-menace-the-rise-and-fall-of-cartel-capitalism-in-western-europe-19181957/762EF05674DAB85AA9FAE07AE1723B37 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/enterprise-and-socie... The European Steel and Coal Community (precursor of the EU) was also involved in the effort to stop these. In general this has been something the EU has been involved in since its inception and the best action against monopolies is to not let them form in the first place (why there is so few of them in general in most developed countries. Though that is now slowly changing it seems)
- podgorniy 4mo ago
  [dead]
slopinthebag 4mo ago
No, in fact most monopolies occur in heavily regulated markets, where unregulated markets are virtually always free. Keep in mind that just having a big market share isn’t a monopoly, being able to charge monopoly prices is.

Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? And yes, not every regulation destroys monopoly, but regulation is the only thing that could break one.

nba456_ 4mo ago

> Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? No.

maybewhenthesun 4mo ago
19th century begs to differ. A better answer would be 'not always'. The proposed regulations forcing everybody to use google or apple are ridiculous and very much the opposite of the kind of regulations we need though...
- ulbu 4mo ago
  or “sometimes not, until more data arrives”.

Arkhaine_kupo 4mo ago

> Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? No. Monopolies are only inevitable if the goods aren't elastic, if there is a large cost of entry into the market, or if its a market you can create a moat that is unsurmountable. Many markets don't have that even with 0 regulation, but might have second order problems like firms creating unsafe products for example. But in general regulations almost always even unindentedly raise the cost to enter the market. If you make a new regulation that food needs to be safe, then the company needs to pay a safety inspection that a small home-made recipe might not be able to afford (to give a simple example). At the same time, we now have uber large corporations due to non elastic parts of supply chain (like land) or moats that are insurmountable (like access to US capital). In which case, the FCC should break up monopolies as the current market is not catering to end users and consumers but to owners, which is why the Stock market has been in a never ending bull run.

throwwwll 4mo ago
[flagged]
- philipallstar 4mo ago
  > Spoken like a true 120-year who trusts blindly everything he hears online from Rothbard This ad hominem stuff is genuinely worthless.
  - maybewhenthesun 4mo ago
    I don't think so. Because the theories about elastic markets and monopolies do have a high 'spherical frictionless cow` smell. And they are posed here as gospel. So while it might be a bit of an ad hominem to frame someone as a 120 year old it does succinctly point out a problem and hence adds information.
    - hypeatei 4mo ago
      > And they are posed here as gospel The same could be said for people who suggest regulation for every problem that comes up, even for problems that were caused by regulation. Maybe we have our blindspots, but the "regulate everything" crowd is much louder and more prevalent on HN than the free market absolutists.
      - throwwwll 4mo ago
        Here's another ad-hominem (to another poster), cause you guys just cannot argue in good faith: Spoken like a true American who had long-forgotten nuance exists.
    - philipallstar 4mo ago
      Things "having a smell" is not an argument, and they weren't posed as gospel. I've yet to see anyone counter the basic points of that post, because they look pretty solid. Happy if you have a non-vibes based rebuttal.

Chu4eeno 4mo ago

Are there any examples of monopolies being (successfully) broken up in Europe? Or do you posit that regulation stop them from forming?

raverbashing 4mo ago
Look into the mechanisms being worked on to create competition in rail operators (which has been opening the markets to competitor rail operators)
doikor 4mo ago
Pre WW2 Europe was full of (state backed) cartels and monopolies. These were dismantled for the most part. A lot of these were international. Just read up on "Cartel capitalism". https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/enterprise-and-society/article/monopoly-menace-the-rise-and-fall-of-cartel-capitalism-in-western-europe-19181957/762EF05674DAB85AA9FAE07AE1723B37 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/enterprise-and-socie... The European Steel and Coal Community (precursor of the EU) was also involved in the effort to stop these. In general this has been something the EU has been involved in since its inception and the best action against monopolies is to not let them form in the first place (why there is so few of them in general in most developed countries. Though that is now slowly changing it seems)
podgorniy 4mo ago
[dead]

slopinthebag 4mo ago

No, in fact most monopolies occur in heavily regulated markets, where unregulated markets are virtually always free. Keep in mind that just having a big market share isn’t a monopoly, being able to charge monopoly prices is.