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Kudos to the BunnyNet team! I've always looked for a EU based alternative to Cloudflare; not because I didn't like them, I still support Cloudflare and they're

Kudos to the BunnyNet team! I've always looked for a EU based alternative to Cloudflare; not because I didn't like them, I still support Cloudflare and they're a great company, but pushing for and testing EU services is important particularly in the light of recent developments in EU-US geopolitics. The problem is that many European companies aren't as competitive as their US counterpart. Consider Hetzner as an example: how can you imagine being competitive with US cloud providers (AWS, Azure, GCP) by raising the prices so much, in such a short time, with so little previous communication to your customers? BunnyNet on the other hand is being competitive and this move is in the right direction. Of course their free tier is not comparable to Cloudflare (they are two different companies, with different profiles in terms of debt, cash in hand and so on), but it doesn't need to be for small projects. I'm not choosing BunnyNet because it's european, I'm choosing it because it's a good company that is providing a good service.

scandox 4mo ago
Well that's a strange way of expressing competitiveness when Hetzner is still vastly cheaper than those 3 cloud providers, despite those cost increases.
- Imustaskforhelp 4mo ago
  Yes Hetzner is still vastly cheaper option but there are better options now compared to hetzner and the issue is the way that they handled the pricing. Its just simply unsustainable and burns a lot of trust/good will if you increase your prices 3x in such a short period of time Trust me when I say this but Hetzner really belonged in its category previously. I had scoured almost everything and nothing could provide the scale at price Hetzner did back then but now I would say that its simply not true anymore and that there might be better options out there for what its worth. I am really sad for Hetzner as I really enjoyed them and always wanted to build on top of them but looks like all good things come to an end :-(
  - piva00 4mo ago
    What is comparable to Hetzner in price/scale/features?
    - Imustaskforhelp 4mo ago
      If you want very small servers: either get a 7$/yr vps or (upcloud if all you want is 1gb ram/1core esq server for very lightweight purposes) The thing after Hetzner's price increase is that there isn't one size fits all anymore and I guess it might not impact people like me who knows in my opinion, many providers but in this situation its a net loss for many who might be paying higher prices. So here is my small list: if you want vps that are behind nat: @backtogeek at (tierhive.net) is your guy. He's on hackernews as well. If you want a very small vps with high egress: Upcloud is an interesting option as they provide 33TB (100mbps) even on their smallest machines. Ionos is a good option as well. Dedirock/host-c are good for storage backup. Don't rely on their reliability or bandwidth but rely on having multiple deplyoments on different such servers for good backups. Main: OVHCloud/Greencloud/onidel/buyvm and to a lesser degree Netcup as well are some good verdicts. I like layer7 and servarica as well and I have personally talked in direct messages to the person behind loclix.io I personally use TNAHosting/Avahosting 7$/11$ yr servers respectively as I am idling them. You might be amazed by what 7$ servers can achieve as I usually code in golang/rust which work extremely good, I also host my own mail server on Tnahosting as it has port 25 enabled (though I do this just for fun) and in my lifetime, I also had a Netcup vps for 10$ for 3 months which had 8gb ram and 4 cores and 500 gb HDD. I use cloudflare tunnels in front of my vps to prevent DDOS, not that my website has a lot of traffic anyway and have previously made custom scripts to manage it easier and I sometimes use zed and zed's remote server to connect to my server especially when I was on my netcup server and I also use micro-editor quite frequently on my vps's. Oh can't forget xhosts.uk if you want UK vps's. I really feel like they are a good host and I have said their story on HN earlier as well but they sadly had some disabilities but instead of taking the disability check, they wanted to earn and make their own way and so have operated a vps servers because they like doing this. I really have a lot of respect for them. "instead of taking the easy option and claim all kinds of money from the government for my disabilities I work as much as I can and hope I strike it lucky with the right customers one day." This is a comment that they had written with me in personal discussions. Ethernet servers is a good provider if you want port 25 access/mail access from what I've heard about them as they don't usually allow it. Skrime.eu can fit in some of my criterias as well. H4F.net(Riyad) is a respected provider as well. Advinserver is good as well as they provide the stats of all servers so you can find the amount of steal and other factors and I have heard some people say some good things about them. Hosting is one of the few businesses which is cooperative and competitive between many of these players and especially on the lower side of things run much on goodwill. There are always some cases of complaints but its a comfy space. You can almost find a specific host which can be best for your use case and it can be worth finding them out. I have tried to give the limited knowledge that I have. but lets face it, what i have written is probably a brain fart and Its mostly information overload and I dont expect people to change their providers with this but my point is to be more aware about the provider space in general and to find the best provider for your own specific use case. Feel free to e-mail me (mail in profile) if you have any specific use case and if I could help optimize the bill or give a more specific list of providers who can help in your use case. Price itself isn't the only factor as there are of reputation, steal factor, long term sustainability and many others. I have spent too much time on such forums (to even a detrimental cost indeed) and I just like sharing the few things that I know. Perhaps I can get someone to save some money as some of these providers have affiliate programs and I can then spend that money to buy more french fries :-D Have a nice day and take care. Domains are much more simplified though than servers and I recommend people to look at https://tld-list.com https://tld-list.com if they want to find out about domains.
- jeremyjh 4mo ago
  They are vastly cheaper even than their actual competition in the US like Digital Ocean. edit: Actually I had completely missed the most recent price update. I made this comment referring to April 1st pricing. I did not receive a communication about the June 15th update, because it did not apply to existing resources. This gives the breakdown: https://docs.hetzner.com/general/infrastructure-and-availability/price-adjustment/#usa-ashhil https://docs.hetzner.com/general/infrastructure-and-availabi... I have two CCX13, which were small (2CPU, 8GB RAM) dedicated compute VMs in Ashburn. Those are 16.99 EUR / month on my account, but for me to add another would now cost 43.99 EUR. There is also large premium for hosting in Ashburn compared to Europe for the CPX line, which are the shared/subscribed tier. The SKUs are different so its not directly comparable but for example CPX32 (4vCPU/8GB) is 35.49 EUR in Falkenstein but a CPX31 (4vCPU/8GB) is 62.49 EUR in Ashburn and has far less bandwidth.
  - metadat 4mo ago
    That is shockingly more expensive. Damn, rip hetzner.
  - ymolodtsov 4mo ago
    Not sure. They were cheaper than DigitalOcean, to the point where 1 DO instance cost would give you 3 on Hetzner, but now they're at parity, and DO seems to have a better product.
    - xhkkffbf 4mo ago
      Why do you think it's a better product? Slicker interface?
      - moooo99 4mo ago
        Probably more versatile. Hetzner is just VPSes. They do not offer any PaaS product like managed DBs, managed Redis, wahtever.
      - jeremyjh 4mo ago
        Hosted Postgres, hosted K8s, block storage that can IOPS.
farfatched 4mo ago
To be fair, a large fraction of Hetzner's costs will be RAM/SSD prices (since that is what they are selling), and they're in a competitive market, and known to have competitive pricing. Bunny CDN of course runs on RAM/SSD but their costs are also developing and operating services on top. Their costs are comparatively less impacted by the RAM/SSD issue. Hetzner might not have raised prices so suddenly if they had similar services. Indeed, Hetzner DNS has been free for a long time.
1dom 4mo ago
> I'm not choosing BunnyNet because it's european, I'm choosing it because it's a good company that is providing a good service. That sounds like a GPT trope, and seems a slightly weird thing to say: the only reason I thought you might be choosing it because it was European was because your entire comment talked about how you were looking for EU alternatives, and how Bunny is better than other European alternatives. Come to think about it, this is exactly the sort of output I would expect if a sales person at Bunny had asked GPT to generate a response to sound authentic whilst pointing out out that Bunny is European and better than Hetzner. To be clear, I'm not saying you're using AI, because I trust you're a legitimate user, and it's also the sort of thing a legitimate user would say, but the style and tone of your comment feels a bit... uncanny. Sorry!
- laszlojamf 4mo ago
  this might be a case of AI feedback, where people have been exposed to so much AI writing that they are starting to write like AI themselves.
  - 1dom 4mo ago
    I agree! It might even be an issue on my side, where I'm exposed to AI generated stuff that often that everything starts looking like a trope when it's not. Either way, I've seen more than enough in this comment section to make me want to avoid bunny for now anyway.
    - onaclov2000 4mo ago
      Interesting side thought, dunno if it would give any real indication, but I assume the difference between pasting a bunch of text vs typing each character would seem like a potential indicator (for now) whether someone might have used AI to respond.
      - dabinat 4mo ago
        If my comment is more than a few sentences, I’ll often type it up in my Notes app and paste it in. It means I don’t lose it if there’s some kind of technical issue, and I don’t run the risk of accidentally fat-fingering the Submit or Reload buttons. I do it with text messages too.
MiddleEndian 4mo ago
As someone who recently switched from Rackspace to Hetzner for my dedicated VPS (albeit before the recent price jump), I am still quite happy with my decision. Apparently they are not raising their prices for existing customers, but even so, their prices are consistent and very clearly laid out, they don't change month-to-month, and their website is incredibly easy to use (both when choosing options, and when doing server management), which is more than I can say for Rackspace lol (or Linode now that they're owned by Akamai)
goobatrooba 4mo ago
To be fair, Hetzner didn't change prices for existing services, just for new customers / services added. I think that's a fair and realistic approach. I guess what this reveals is that they were operating on really tight margins.
mhitza 4mo ago
They are competitive price wise, but less competent human wise. Their lack of user care shows when you start talking to support. I've never had this experience with an US company (except the US giants) where support basically gives me an "it is what it is". The most recent that really put the cherry on top. I was planning on dropping them when running out of prepaid credits. ALL SaaS software I've used before that had a top up option would notify me when my credits where about to run out. Bunny doesn't. What is a point of a credit bar (progress bar) of you can go into negative? I went into negative. There is no option to pay only what you've used, but the minimum necessary is a 10er. Which should remain as credits in your account for future use. But then you can't even spin down your usage by dropping everything because merely having the account you pay the monthly subscription of 1+vat. Support: paraphrasing "that sounds right". And I could be quoting them with this for almost all 3 times I've interacted with them. Yes, I am very much unpleased on customer support experience. But they are not unique and a symptom of multiple EU providers I've switched to in the last 3 years.
- psini 4mo ago
  Not saying there are companies going above and beyond for customer service but getting a human answer at all when spending single-digit euros a month seems impressive enough; then again I am european so certainly biased :) What would an american provider have done? Changed their pricing model for you?
  - mhitza 4mo ago
    My website traffic was a couple megabytes per month. I paid them for about 3 years for neglegible usage. Should I have zero expectation for paying because its cheap? You can be metered or fixed price. Mixing the two in the most inuintive way possible is a true innovation. /s Other cloud based provider have the option to pay for your usage to the cent. I guess that innovation didn't reach the EU. /s
    - hvb2 4mo ago
      Assuming they've hosted you for 3 full years, I wouldn't mind the 10 euros. Even small sites need all infra to work. The fact that your site is small only means it costs less in transfer.
sscaryterry 4mo ago
+1 (828) 660-1813 seems American, no?
- KomoD 4mo ago
  The sales number is American, but the company is Slovenian.
nalekberov 4mo ago
> not because I didn't like them, I still support Cloudflare and they're a great company, Great for what? Centralizing the internet? making it impossible to exercise your rights to delete your account? Not making alternative plans when one line of change breaks many services?
sparkling 4mo ago
The Hetzner price increase was brutal, but the reality is: Hetzner VPS prices are still a fraction of comparable AWS EC2 instances. >many European companies aren't as competitive as their US counterpart. I don't think any serious Enterprise account would go with Hetzner today, the service range and depth is simply not comparable to the 3 big clouds. Saving $20 on a VPS is not going to be a deciding factor for Enterprise accounts, they want mature, manage services. The few EU clouds that do have a comparable range of managed services also have AWS-like pricing: https://eualternative.eu/eu-cloud-comparison/ https://eualternative.eu/eu-cloud-comparison/
fleroviumna 4mo ago
[dead]
proton_9 4mo ago
I had my vm's price increase by around 30% percent as well but they did communicate it and the reason for it being the global ram prices going up. Even then I think hetzner is pretty good, not a lot of good cloud providers keep the port 25 open.

scandox 4mo ago

Well that's a strange way of expressing competitiveness when Hetzner is still vastly cheaper than those 3 cloud providers, despite those cost increases.

Imustaskforhelp 4mo ago
Yes Hetzner is still vastly cheaper option but there are better options now compared to hetzner and the issue is the way that they handled the pricing. Its just simply unsustainable and burns a lot of trust/good will if you increase your prices 3x in such a short period of time Trust me when I say this but Hetzner really belonged in its category previously. I had scoured almost everything and nothing could provide the scale at price Hetzner did back then but now I would say that its simply not true anymore and that there might be better options out there for what its worth. I am really sad for Hetzner as I really enjoyed them and always wanted to build on top of them but looks like all good things come to an end :-(
- piva00 4mo ago
  What is comparable to Hetzner in price/scale/features?
  - Imustaskforhelp 4mo ago
    If you want very small servers: either get a 7$/yr vps or (upcloud if all you want is 1gb ram/1core esq server for very lightweight purposes) The thing after Hetzner's price increase is that there isn't one size fits all anymore and I guess it might not impact people like me who knows in my opinion, many providers but in this situation its a net loss for many who might be paying higher prices. So here is my small list: if you want vps that are behind nat: @backtogeek at (tierhive.net) is your guy. He's on hackernews as well. If you want a very small vps with high egress: Upcloud is an interesting option as they provide 33TB (100mbps) even on their smallest machines. Ionos is a good option as well. Dedirock/host-c are good for storage backup. Don't rely on their reliability or bandwidth but rely on having multiple deplyoments on different such servers for good backups. Main: OVHCloud/Greencloud/onidel/buyvm and to a lesser degree Netcup as well are some good verdicts. I like layer7 and servarica as well and I have personally talked in direct messages to the person behind loclix.io I personally use TNAHosting/Avahosting 7$/11$ yr servers respectively as I am idling them. You might be amazed by what 7$ servers can achieve as I usually code in golang/rust which work extremely good, I also host my own mail server on Tnahosting as it has port 25 enabled (though I do this just for fun) and in my lifetime, I also had a Netcup vps for 10$ for 3 months which had 8gb ram and 4 cores and 500 gb HDD. I use cloudflare tunnels in front of my vps to prevent DDOS, not that my website has a lot of traffic anyway and have previously made custom scripts to manage it easier and I sometimes use zed and zed's remote server to connect to my server especially when I was on my netcup server and I also use micro-editor quite frequently on my vps's. Oh can't forget xhosts.uk if you want UK vps's. I really feel like they are a good host and I have said their story on HN earlier as well but they sadly had some disabilities but instead of taking the disability check, they wanted to earn and make their own way and so have operated a vps servers because they like doing this. I really have a lot of respect for them. "instead of taking the easy option and claim all kinds of money from the government for my disabilities I work as much as I can and hope I strike it lucky with the right customers one day." This is a comment that they had written with me in personal discussions. Ethernet servers is a good provider if you want port 25 access/mail access from what I've heard about them as they don't usually allow it. Skrime.eu can fit in some of my criterias as well. H4F.net(Riyad) is a respected provider as well. Advinserver is good as well as they provide the stats of all servers so you can find the amount of steal and other factors and I have heard some people say some good things about them. Hosting is one of the few businesses which is cooperative and competitive between many of these players and especially on the lower side of things run much on goodwill. There are always some cases of complaints but its a comfy space. You can almost find a specific host which can be best for your use case and it can be worth finding them out. I have tried to give the limited knowledge that I have. but lets face it, what i have written is probably a brain fart and Its mostly information overload and I dont expect people to change their providers with this but my point is to be more aware about the provider space in general and to find the best provider for your own specific use case. Feel free to e-mail me (mail in profile) if you have any specific use case and if I could help optimize the bill or give a more specific list of providers who can help in your use case. Price itself isn't the only factor as there are of reputation, steal factor, long term sustainability and many others. I have spent too much time on such forums (to even a detrimental cost indeed) and I just like sharing the few things that I know. Perhaps I can get someone to save some money as some of these providers have affiliate programs and I can then spend that money to buy more french fries :-D Have a nice day and take care. Domains are much more simplified though than servers and I recommend people to look at https://tld-list.com https://tld-list.com if they want to find out about domains.
jeremyjh 4mo ago
They are vastly cheaper even than their actual competition in the US like Digital Ocean. edit: Actually I had completely missed the most recent price update. I made this comment referring to April 1st pricing. I did not receive a communication about the June 15th update, because it did not apply to existing resources. This gives the breakdown: https://docs.hetzner.com/general/infrastructure-and-availability/price-adjustment/#usa-ashhil https://docs.hetzner.com/general/infrastructure-and-availabi... I have two CCX13, which were small (2CPU, 8GB RAM) dedicated compute VMs in Ashburn. Those are 16.99 EUR / month on my account, but for me to add another would now cost 43.99 EUR. There is also large premium for hosting in Ashburn compared to Europe for the CPX line, which are the shared/subscribed tier. The SKUs are different so its not directly comparable but for example CPX32 (4vCPU/8GB) is 35.49 EUR in Falkenstein but a CPX31 (4vCPU/8GB) is 62.49 EUR in Ashburn and has far less bandwidth.
- metadat 4mo ago
  That is shockingly more expensive. Damn, rip hetzner.
- ymolodtsov 4mo ago
  Not sure. They were cheaper than DigitalOcean, to the point where 1 DO instance cost would give you 3 on Hetzner, but now they're at parity, and DO seems to have a better product.
  - xhkkffbf 4mo ago
    Why do you think it's a better product? Slicker interface?
    - moooo99 4mo ago
      Probably more versatile. Hetzner is just VPSes. They do not offer any PaaS product like managed DBs, managed Redis, wahtever.
    - jeremyjh 4mo ago
      Hosted Postgres, hosted K8s, block storage that can IOPS.

farfatched 4mo ago

To be fair, a large fraction of Hetzner's costs will be RAM/SSD prices (since that is what they are selling), and they're in a competitive market, and known to have competitive pricing. Bunny CDN of course runs on RAM/SSD but their costs are also developing and operating services on top. Their costs are comparatively less impacted by the RAM/SSD issue. Hetzner might not have raised prices so suddenly if they had similar services. Indeed, Hetzner DNS has been free for a long time.

1dom 4mo ago

> I'm not choosing BunnyNet because it's european, I'm choosing it because it's a good company that is providing a good service. That sounds like a GPT trope, and seems a slightly weird thing to say: the only reason I thought you might be choosing it because it was European was because your entire comment talked about how you were looking for EU alternatives, and how Bunny is better than other European alternatives. Come to think about it, this is exactly the sort of output I would expect if a sales person at Bunny had asked GPT to generate a response to sound authentic whilst pointing out out that Bunny is European and better than Hetzner. To be clear, I'm not saying you're using AI, because I trust you're a legitimate user, and it's also the sort of thing a legitimate user would say, but the style and tone of your comment feels a bit... uncanny. Sorry!

laszlojamf 4mo ago
this might be a case of AI feedback, where people have been exposed to so much AI writing that they are starting to write like AI themselves.
- 1dom 4mo ago
  I agree! It might even be an issue on my side, where I'm exposed to AI generated stuff that often that everything starts looking like a trope when it's not. Either way, I've seen more than enough in this comment section to make me want to avoid bunny for now anyway.
  - onaclov2000 4mo ago
    Interesting side thought, dunno if it would give any real indication, but I assume the difference between pasting a bunch of text vs typing each character would seem like a potential indicator (for now) whether someone might have used AI to respond.
    - dabinat 4mo ago
      If my comment is more than a few sentences, I’ll often type it up in my Notes app and paste it in. It means I don’t lose it if there’s some kind of technical issue, and I don’t run the risk of accidentally fat-fingering the Submit or Reload buttons. I do it with text messages too.

MiddleEndian 4mo ago

As someone who recently switched from Rackspace to Hetzner for my dedicated VPS (albeit before the recent price jump), I am still quite happy with my decision. Apparently they are not raising their prices for existing customers, but even so, their prices are consistent and very clearly laid out, they don't change month-to-month, and their website is incredibly easy to use (both when choosing options, and when doing server management), which is more than I can say for Rackspace lol (or Linode now that they're owned by Akamai)

goobatrooba 4mo ago

To be fair, Hetzner didn't change prices for existing services, just for new customers / services added. I think that's a fair and realistic approach. I guess what this reveals is that they were operating on really tight margins.

mhitza 4mo ago

They are competitive price wise, but less competent human wise. Their lack of user care shows when you start talking to support. I've never had this experience with an US company (except the US giants) where support basically gives me an "it is what it is". The most recent that really put the cherry on top. I was planning on dropping them when running out of prepaid credits. ALL SaaS software I've used before that had a top up option would notify me when my credits where about to run out. Bunny doesn't. What is a point of a credit bar (progress bar) of you can go into negative? I went into negative. There is no option to pay only what you've used, but the minimum necessary is a 10er. Which should remain as credits in your account for future use. But then you can't even spin down your usage by dropping everything because merely having the account you pay the monthly subscription of 1+vat. Support: paraphrasing "that sounds right". And I could be quoting them with this for almost all 3 times I've interacted with them. Yes, I am very much unpleased on customer support experience. But they are not unique and a symptom of multiple EU providers I've switched to in the last 3 years.

psini 4mo ago
Not saying there are companies going above and beyond for customer service but getting a human answer at all when spending single-digit euros a month seems impressive enough; then again I am european so certainly biased :) What would an american provider have done? Changed their pricing model for you?
- mhitza 4mo ago
  My website traffic was a couple megabytes per month. I paid them for about 3 years for neglegible usage. Should I have zero expectation for paying because its cheap? You can be metered or fixed price. Mixing the two in the most inuintive way possible is a true innovation. /s Other cloud based provider have the option to pay for your usage to the cent. I guess that innovation didn't reach the EU. /s
  - hvb2 4mo ago
    Assuming they've hosted you for 3 full years, I wouldn't mind the 10 euros. Even small sites need all infra to work. The fact that your site is small only means it costs less in transfer.

sscaryterry 4mo ago

+1 (828) 660-1813 seems American, no?

KomoD 4mo ago
The sales number is American, but the company is Slovenian.

nalekberov 4mo ago

> not because I didn't like them, I still support Cloudflare and they're a great company, Great for what? Centralizing the internet? making it impossible to exercise your rights to delete your account? Not making alternative plans when one line of change breaks many services?

sparkling 4mo ago

The Hetzner price increase was brutal, but the reality is: Hetzner VPS prices are still a fraction of comparable AWS EC2 instances. >many European companies aren't as competitive as their US counterpart. I don't think any serious Enterprise account would go with Hetzner today, the service range and depth is simply not comparable to the 3 big clouds. Saving $20 on a VPS is not going to be a deciding factor for Enterprise accounts, they want mature, manage services. The few EU clouds that do have a comparable range of managed services also have AWS-like pricing: https://eualternative.eu/eu-cloud-comparison/ https://eualternative.eu/eu-cloud-comparison/

fleroviumna 4mo ago

[dead]

proton_9 4mo ago

I had my vm's price increase by around 30% percent as well but they did communicate it and the reason for it being the global ram prices going up. Even then I think hetzner is pretty good, not a lot of good cloud providers keep the port 25 open.