4 ms·

Your options are: 1. Find another job 2. Don’t find another job You can’t say “where else can I work” like you have no agency over your life. Everyone choos

by dozerly 4mo ago

Your options are: 1. Find another job 2. Don’t find another job You can’t say “where else can I work” like you have no agency over your life. Everyone chooses every day to do what they do that day. You don’t get to be morally absolved because you’re choosing the easy path and you’re “stuck”. I’m sure there are plenty of places that pay less that would love to have talented remote employees.

ra0x3 4mo ago
Not sure why you're being downvoted. Maybe a little preachy, but the gist of the point isn't incorrect
- dozerly 4mo ago
  In a large portion of tech people like to pretend that they are absolved of responsibility for their societal contributions. “Get that bag” and all that. Work at Anduril as long as it makes that bread, etc. It makes sense that someone promoting them to re-evaluate the harm they’re causing by participating would elicit negative response
  - kortilla 4mo ago
    > Work at Anduril as long as it makes that bread, etc. You don’t work at Anduril to make bread, at least not as a software engineer. It’s a long hours startup with worse pay than FAANG in high CoL areas. The people that work there fundamentally believe in “improving the defense of the west”. It is the private sector equivalent of joining the military. If you want to bag on people in the military, go ahead. But they are not in the same category as people just doing things for convenient good money.
    - Planktonne 4mo ago
      > It is the private sector equivalent of joining the military. If the motivation is 'improving the defence of the west', it's more equivalent to joining a fringe paramilitary organisation; the dogwhistle is clear.
      - kortilla 3mo ago
        They are an extension of the US military. Their weapons do what the US decides. Anduril does not offer military services like blackwater or whatever.
- least 4mo ago
  People don’t particularly care for platitudes from anonymous people on the internet. Even less so when they reduce a complex dilemma in your life to a binary choice between an “easy and amoral” option and a “difficult but righteous” one. Most people make compromises inside imperfect systems. The person casting judgment almost certainly has their own moral compromises too, except those they understand, contextualize, rationalize, and forgive themselves for. It’s just tiresome. There may not be a ton of context, but even knowing that someone is bound to a particular place because of caregiving responsibilities should be enough to invite a little more empathy and grace, and a lot less judgment.
  - pishpash 4mo ago
    They are not understanding that it's not one person's moral failing at the root of it, it's the system that forces everyone into participating in amoral things, including for example the investors of Meta who are getting a bigger bag. That includes every one of you S&P500 index fund hodlers.
    - InsideOutSanta 4mo ago
      It's both. We can point to individuals who make terrible decisions and also acknowledge that there will always be such people as long as the system incentivizes them.
      - pishpash 4mo ago
        How many of index fund investors take a short position on Meta to cancel out that share? That's pretty easy to do. If it's nobody then everyone is "such people" and it is meaningless to single out any one person. Just acknowledge that there is no moral high ground for anyone. You either provide labor or capital to the enterprise, which is worse?
        InsideOutSanta 4mo ago
        I reject the idea that a person who doesn't do literally everything they can to improve the world is the same as one who actively makes it worse.
- jopolous 4mo ago
  It’s okay, I put my thoughts out there and I appreciate the feedback from other engineers. It’s actually kind of motivating. I’d interviewed at several places over the last few months and something out of my control always came up and halted the process (remote work closed down, hiring freeze, etc), so I’m definitely feeling a bit down about job prospects right now. I needed some people to remind me “no, don’t be complacent, keep trying, there’s stuff out there and it’s worth the effort to continue looking”
test6554 4mo ago
I don't blame someone for working at facebook, but I don't think most of you realize how cash money a FANG company looks on your resume to IT managers at the lowly normal companies. Go work in financial services, insurance, retail, go be a contractor and work/travel until you find what you like.
tempay 4mo ago
The key point here is the “pay less” part. I know people that have turned down offers from meta that would 5x their salary and their personal situation would notably improve from at least some of that extra cash. The OP is a bit preachy and maybe some employees really don’t have any other options even with accepting lower salaries, but the majority should at least realise the golden handcuffs their bound by even if they choose not to act on them.
InsideOutSanta 4mo ago
> there are plenty of places that pay less This exactly. I value working from home and not working for a company that actively makes the world hell, so I make a quarter of what some of my peers at FAANG-adjacent companies make. Which is still a lot more than I realistically need.
- duskdozer 4mo ago
  Is there any place you look or way of looking that has you in that job? I'm currently happy with my ethical and remote job myself, but I question if it will be around in 10 years, and I especially hate job hunting.
  - InsideOutSanta 4mo ago
    Small B2B/B2G software companies. Look at companies that answer RFPs from your local governments.
budsniffer952 4mo ago
I might agree with this. But I also think all of the people criticizing Meta should post where they work. I'm sure plenty of people here work for ethically dubious companies, and make the same excuses. Glass houses and all that.

by dozerly 4mo ago

ra0x3 4mo ago

Not sure why you're being downvoted. Maybe a little preachy, but the gist of the point isn't incorrect

dozerly 4mo ago
In a large portion of tech people like to pretend that they are absolved of responsibility for their societal contributions. “Get that bag” and all that. Work at Anduril as long as it makes that bread, etc. It makes sense that someone promoting them to re-evaluate the harm they’re causing by participating would elicit negative response
- kortilla 4mo ago
  > Work at Anduril as long as it makes that bread, etc. You don’t work at Anduril to make bread, at least not as a software engineer. It’s a long hours startup with worse pay than FAANG in high CoL areas. The people that work there fundamentally believe in “improving the defense of the west”. It is the private sector equivalent of joining the military. If you want to bag on people in the military, go ahead. But they are not in the same category as people just doing things for convenient good money.
  - Planktonne 4mo ago
    > It is the private sector equivalent of joining the military. If the motivation is 'improving the defence of the west', it's more equivalent to joining a fringe paramilitary organisation; the dogwhistle is clear.
    - kortilla 3mo ago
      They are an extension of the US military. Their weapons do what the US decides. Anduril does not offer military services like blackwater or whatever.
least 4mo ago
People don’t particularly care for platitudes from anonymous people on the internet. Even less so when they reduce a complex dilemma in your life to a binary choice between an “easy and amoral” option and a “difficult but righteous” one. Most people make compromises inside imperfect systems. The person casting judgment almost certainly has their own moral compromises too, except those they understand, contextualize, rationalize, and forgive themselves for. It’s just tiresome. There may not be a ton of context, but even knowing that someone is bound to a particular place because of caregiving responsibilities should be enough to invite a little more empathy and grace, and a lot less judgment.
- pishpash 4mo ago
  They are not understanding that it's not one person's moral failing at the root of it, it's the system that forces everyone into participating in amoral things, including for example the investors of Meta who are getting a bigger bag. That includes every one of you S&P500 index fund hodlers.
  - InsideOutSanta 4mo ago
    It's both. We can point to individuals who make terrible decisions and also acknowledge that there will always be such people as long as the system incentivizes them.
    - pishpash 4mo ago
      How many of index fund investors take a short position on Meta to cancel out that share? That's pretty easy to do. If it's nobody then everyone is "such people" and it is meaningless to single out any one person. Just acknowledge that there is no moral high ground for anyone. You either provide labor or capital to the enterprise, which is worse?
      - InsideOutSanta 4mo ago
        I reject the idea that a person who doesn't do literally everything they can to improve the world is the same as one who actively makes it worse.
jopolous 4mo ago
It’s okay, I put my thoughts out there and I appreciate the feedback from other engineers. It’s actually kind of motivating. I’d interviewed at several places over the last few months and something out of my control always came up and halted the process (remote work closed down, hiring freeze, etc), so I’m definitely feeling a bit down about job prospects right now. I needed some people to remind me “no, don’t be complacent, keep trying, there’s stuff out there and it’s worth the effort to continue looking”

test6554 4mo ago

I don't blame someone for working at facebook, but I don't think most of you realize how cash money a FANG company looks on your resume to IT managers at the lowly normal companies. Go work in financial services, insurance, retail, go be a contractor and work/travel until you find what you like.

tempay 4mo ago

The key point here is the “pay less” part. I know people that have turned down offers from meta that would 5x their salary and their personal situation would notably improve from at least some of that extra cash. The OP is a bit preachy and maybe some employees really don’t have any other options even with accepting lower salaries, but the majority should at least realise the golden handcuffs their bound by even if they choose not to act on them.

InsideOutSanta 4mo ago

> there are plenty of places that pay less This exactly. I value working from home and not working for a company that actively makes the world hell, so I make a quarter of what some of my peers at FAANG-adjacent companies make. Which is still a lot more than I realistically need.

duskdozer 4mo ago
Is there any place you look or way of looking that has you in that job? I'm currently happy with my ethical and remote job myself, but I question if it will be around in 10 years, and I especially hate job hunting.
- InsideOutSanta 4mo ago
  Small B2B/B2G software companies. Look at companies that answer RFPs from your local governments.

budsniffer952 4mo ago

I might agree with this. But I also think all of the people criticizing Meta should post where they work. I'm sure plenty of people here work for ethically dubious companies, and make the same excuses. Glass houses and all that.