6 ms·

I think it's more that air conditioning is (currently) prohibitively expensive. The few people I know that have it spent several thousands of euros on their ins

by Aeolun 4mo ago

I think it's more that air conditioning is (currently) prohibitively expensive. The few people I know that have it spent several thousands of euros on their installations. That's not something most people have lying around. You'd think the government could subsidize aircon like they did solar for years, and both of those things combined would translate to very pleasant summers spent in energy neutral air conditioned homes.

TulliusCicero 4mo ago
A basic window AC unit costs a few hundred bucks.
- Aeolun 4mo ago
  Not anywhere I’m aware of. Maybe the outer unit, then you need the inside, you need a licensed technician to install it, you need it to not look hideous and tank your house price. There is several thousand euros. You also need a larger unit because the rooms are too large to take one of the smaller units.
  - HeyImAlex 4mo ago
    They're talking about window units, not heat pump systems or central air. It's a complete AC that sits in your window. It can't cool a very large space (even in apartments people may have more than one), but it's cheap and easy to install (and equally easy to remove). It might be unsightly on a house, but a lot of that is probably just cultural norms. They're very common in NYC, where a lot of housing was built before central air became the default.
  - asdff 4mo ago
    I think you are thinking of mini splits, and not what americans would call a window unit. I got my window unit for $100 off craigslist and put it in myself without needing any tools.
    - Aeolun 4mo ago
      Right. I only know one version of air conditioning and have never really seen anything other than what you call a mini split.
  - TulliusCicero 4mo ago
    That's not what a window AC unit is. And yes, it's true they're kinda ugly, but it's better than baking in the heat.
mc32 4mo ago
You don't need to get central A/C or mini splits. You can use an efficient Window unit (not those single ducted portable units that are just barely better than nothing. if portable do dual ducted for efficiency) Those window units are available at Walmart in the US for a couple hundred apiece. Presumably hypermarts like Carrefour would carry them or some places that serve home improvement.
- Retr0id 4mo ago
  For some reason it's very hard to find window units for sale in the UK, single-duct portables are the only thing available for cheap (although it's a fairly easy mod to convert one to dual-duct).
  - antonvs 4mo ago
    > For some reason The reason would most likely be low demand.
  - lrae 4mo ago
    Probably because the UK - similar to most of Europe - does not use the US vertically sliding sash window type, does it? The typical "walmart window AC" does just not really exist in (most of) Europe, because the windows for it don't exist, afaik. Edit: Turns out, sash windows are more commonly found in the UK (compared to other European countries), but still not as common as in the US. So, UK = not as hot (so far), thus still probably not worth it (yet) as a market.
    - nemomarx 4mo ago
      Why are the windows different, actually? They don't seem to be smaller overall, just skinnier and taller? But you should still be able to get two tubes fitted into any kind of window with the right seals. If you were really up for renovations you could get closeable exhaust holes punched through your brick or something maybe.
      - lrae 4mo ago
stevage 4mo ago
It's strange what people think is expensive. Double glazing is very expensive but no one in Europe would go without it. Aircon is not expensive within the context of a house's construction costs.
- basisword 4mo ago
  >> Double glazing is very expensive but no one in Europe would go without it. This isn’t true. I’ve lived in 3 places in London with single glazing. They’re surprisingly common. All new properties come with it but the majority of our housing stock is old. There’s also little comparison between air con and double glazing. One will be helpful for 4-6 months of the year and reduce my energy bills. The other will be necessary at most 1-2 weeks a year and will cost me thousands of pounds up front. Most people simply can’t afford that.
  - jdkoeck 4mo ago
    Unless the aircon is a heat pump, in which case it’s also useful in the winter, it’s more efficient and carbon neutral if your electricity grid is decarbonised. If most people can’t afford a heat pump, why do we entertain the idea of making them pay an order of magnitude more to better insulate their home, which doesn’t even work in the end? You’ve been misinformed by European media. Please do your research, it’s all online.
    - basisword 4mo ago
      I don't think you have any conception of how little money most people have. Why would I spend £15-20k I don't have on a heat pump so I can get 'free' air con when my house is already heated via another method? Most people don't have £500 spare for a portable air con unit. On top of that, until a few months ago, government subsidies for heat pumps didn't apply to the versions that include air con so anyone who did get a heat pump didn't get that version. >> why do we entertain the idea of making them pay an order of magnitude more to better insulate their home We don't. There have been various schemes over the last couple of decades where people could have this done for free or at very low cost. >> You’ve been misinformed by European media. Please do your research, it’s all online. I suggest you do the same.
d3Xt3r 4mo ago
You don't even need an expensive AC. If you can't afford one, you can just get an evaporative cooler[1] for $100 or lesser[2]. Possibly even cheaper if you don't mind buying a second-hand unit. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler [2] https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Evaporative+cooler https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Evaporative+cooler
- alamortsubite 4mo ago
  Those really only work in very dry climates. So some of Europe, but not places like the UK where the conference was cancelled.
- crote 4mo ago
  The main reason high heat causes issues in Europe is due to the high humidity, so you can't get rid of body heat as your sweat won't evaporate. It's why 35C in the shade might be perfectly fine in Nevada but absolute hell in the UK. For exactly the same reason an evaporative cooler isn't going to work: there's no "space" in the air for the water to evaporate into.
trollbridge 4mo ago
I recently bought a window unit AC for $10 at a yard sale.

by Aeolun 4mo ago

TulliusCicero 4mo ago

A basic window AC unit costs a few hundred bucks.

Aeolun 4mo ago
Not anywhere I’m aware of. Maybe the outer unit, then you need the inside, you need a licensed technician to install it, you need it to not look hideous and tank your house price. There is several thousand euros. You also need a larger unit because the rooms are too large to take one of the smaller units.
- HeyImAlex 4mo ago
  They're talking about window units, not heat pump systems or central air. It's a complete AC that sits in your window. It can't cool a very large space (even in apartments people may have more than one), but it's cheap and easy to install (and equally easy to remove). It might be unsightly on a house, but a lot of that is probably just cultural norms. They're very common in NYC, where a lot of housing was built before central air became the default.
- asdff 4mo ago
  I think you are thinking of mini splits, and not what americans would call a window unit. I got my window unit for $100 off craigslist and put it in myself without needing any tools.
  - Aeolun 4mo ago
    Right. I only know one version of air conditioning and have never really seen anything other than what you call a mini split.
- TulliusCicero 4mo ago
  That's not what a window AC unit is. And yes, it's true they're kinda ugly, but it's better than baking in the heat.

mc32 4mo ago

You don't need to get central A/C or mini splits. You can use an efficient Window unit (not those single ducted portable units that are just barely better than nothing. if portable do dual ducted for efficiency) Those window units are available at Walmart in the US for a couple hundred apiece. Presumably hypermarts like Carrefour would carry them or some places that serve home improvement.

Retr0id 4mo ago
For some reason it's very hard to find window units for sale in the UK, single-duct portables are the only thing available for cheap (although it's a fairly easy mod to convert one to dual-duct).
- antonvs 4mo ago
  > For some reason The reason would most likely be low demand.
- lrae 4mo ago
  Probably because the UK - similar to most of Europe - does not use the US vertically sliding sash window type, does it? The typical "walmart window AC" does just not really exist in (most of) Europe, because the windows for it don't exist, afaik. Edit: Turns out, sash windows are more commonly found in the UK (compared to other European countries), but still not as common as in the US. So, UK = not as hot (so far), thus still probably not worth it (yet) as a market.
  - nemomarx 4mo ago
    Why are the windows different, actually? They don't seem to be smaller overall, just skinnier and taller? But you should still be able to get two tubes fitted into any kind of window with the right seals. If you were really up for renovations you could get closeable exhaust holes punched through your brick or something maybe.
    - lrae 4mo ago

stevage 4mo ago

It's strange what people think is expensive. Double glazing is very expensive but no one in Europe would go without it. Aircon is not expensive within the context of a house's construction costs.

basisword 4mo ago
>> Double glazing is very expensive but no one in Europe would go without it. This isn’t true. I’ve lived in 3 places in London with single glazing. They’re surprisingly common. All new properties come with it but the majority of our housing stock is old. There’s also little comparison between air con and double glazing. One will be helpful for 4-6 months of the year and reduce my energy bills. The other will be necessary at most 1-2 weeks a year and will cost me thousands of pounds up front. Most people simply can’t afford that.
- jdkoeck 4mo ago
  Unless the aircon is a heat pump, in which case it’s also useful in the winter, it’s more efficient and carbon neutral if your electricity grid is decarbonised. If most people can’t afford a heat pump, why do we entertain the idea of making them pay an order of magnitude more to better insulate their home, which doesn’t even work in the end? You’ve been misinformed by European media. Please do your research, it’s all online.
  - basisword 4mo ago
    I don't think you have any conception of how little money most people have. Why would I spend £15-20k I don't have on a heat pump so I can get 'free' air con when my house is already heated via another method? Most people don't have £500 spare for a portable air con unit. On top of that, until a few months ago, government subsidies for heat pumps didn't apply to the versions that include air con so anyone who did get a heat pump didn't get that version. >> why do we entertain the idea of making them pay an order of magnitude more to better insulate their home We don't. There have been various schemes over the last couple of decades where people could have this done for free or at very low cost. >> You’ve been misinformed by European media. Please do your research, it’s all online. I suggest you do the same.

d3Xt3r 4mo ago

You don't even need an expensive AC. If you can't afford one, you can just get an evaporative cooler[1] for $100 or lesser[2]. Possibly even cheaper if you don't mind buying a second-hand unit. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler [2] https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Evaporative+cooler https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Evaporative+cooler

alamortsubite 4mo ago
Those really only work in very dry climates. So some of Europe, but not places like the UK where the conference was cancelled.
crote 4mo ago
The main reason high heat causes issues in Europe is due to the high humidity, so you can't get rid of body heat as your sweat won't evaporate. It's why 35C in the shade might be perfectly fine in Nevada but absolute hell in the UK. For exactly the same reason an evaporative cooler isn't going to work: there's no "space" in the air for the water to evaporate into.

trollbridge 4mo ago

I recently bought a window unit AC for $10 at a yard sale.