8 ms·

Maybe the policy is that you can’t just release 20% time projects publically?

nomel 4mo ago
I've never worked for an employer, from pizza delivery, to corporate intern, to multiple startup, to FAANG, that didn't have this VERY CLEARLY worded in the employment agreement, right up top: 1. Any work you do during company time/resources/equipment, is company property. 2. Anything public related to work, or that could be considered as competing or providing the service in the same space as work, needs to be vetted by the company. Along with public communication, etc. In my experience, this isn't some "what happens when MBA's run company" or "they run out of ideas", it's literally every company I've ever worked for. Was google previously an exception here, or are people just unfamiliar with the details of the 20% policy? Surely they didn't allow you to work on, for example, something for a competitor? There had to be some limitations, rather than a pure free for all, as seems to be suggested in the comments.
- dekhn 4mo ago
  The policy was always crystal clear, but at the same time, tons of people found it confusing. "I wrote this at home on my personal computer in my free time? Why does google own it? how can that be legal" came up a lot. People would get into huge fights with OSPO over this.
  - fg137 4mo ago
    > "I wrote this at home on my personal computer in my free time? Why does google own it? how can that be legal" Interesting. Did they read their contract before signing it?
    - dekhn 4mo ago
      yes, many engineers (especially at google) are armchair lawyers and have all sorts of opinions about contracts and licenses.
  - socalgal2 4mo ago
    Writing at home is irrelevant if what you're doing is related to the company's business. You can't be working for Google and making a browser, a document editor, a spreadsheet, a mapping site, etc... It doesn't matter if you do it on your own time. Yea, you can grow coffee and sell it at retail stores on your own time. No you can't complete directly with your employer. If it's some gray area then you either get permission first or wait for the courts if you get sued. This isn't unique to Google. It's basic common law. No contract needs to be signed. Competing with your employer is immoral. If you want to compete then quit and be a competitor. If you're taking their money as an employee then you have a "duty of loyalty"
    - deleted 4mo ago
      [deleted]
    - blitzar 4mo ago
      Its almost like the junior technofeudalists think the rules dont apply to them.
  - userbinator 4mo ago
    Keeping a very strict "firewall" between your personal and corporate life is the best way to avoid such situations, but then again, these are Google employees we're talking about...
    - dekhn 4mo ago
      I'm not 100% sure what your point is here, but the point I was making is that even in theory if you have a "firewall", your contract with Google (that you signed and agreed to) says that Google owns your code output even if it's done at home on your own time. It really comes down to (at least for Googlers in California) whether the work is related to Google's business (which often covers things like games, even if Google is not a game developer), and even then, you need to submit the work to the Googler lawyers and have them make the determination, before you get permission to publish the code on your own. I saw this play out repeatedly with OSPO and saw many people who believed they had set up firewalls to allow this, and I understood Google's position and appreciated that they made it fairly easy for most people to open source their code.
danudey 4mo ago
He released the product with Google branding making it look extremely like an official Google project, and then it went viral and blindsided everyone who would have been involved in creating or approving this kind of tool internally. If I released a tool personally that I hadn't told anyone at work about and put my company's logos all over it and it went insanely viral then I would expect an extremely uncomfortable conversation with my manager, his manager, HR, and at least one lawyer.
woadwarrior01 4mo ago
You're absolutely allowed to release 20% time projects publicly. As in any large bureaucracy, there's a process for that which is taught during onboarding. What you're not allowed to do is skip the process. There's nothing Google specific about it and I've seen similar firings at other companies too. Skipping legal and corp comms review on any external public communication is grounds for termination.

nomel 4mo ago

I've never worked for an employer, from pizza delivery, to corporate intern, to multiple startup, to FAANG, that didn't have this VERY CLEARLY worded in the employment agreement, right up top: 1. Any work you do during company time/resources/equipment, is company property. 2. Anything public related to work, or that could be considered as competing or providing the service in the same space as work, needs to be vetted by the company. Along with public communication, etc. In my experience, this isn't some "what happens when MBA's run company" or "they run out of ideas", it's literally every company I've ever worked for. Was google previously an exception here, or are people just unfamiliar with the details of the 20% policy? Surely they didn't allow you to work on, for example, something for a competitor? There had to be some limitations, rather than a pure free for all, as seems to be suggested in the comments.

dekhn 4mo ago
The policy was always crystal clear, but at the same time, tons of people found it confusing. "I wrote this at home on my personal computer in my free time? Why does google own it? how can that be legal" came up a lot. People would get into huge fights with OSPO over this.
- fg137 4mo ago
  > "I wrote this at home on my personal computer in my free time? Why does google own it? how can that be legal" Interesting. Did they read their contract before signing it?
  - dekhn 4mo ago
    yes, many engineers (especially at google) are armchair lawyers and have all sorts of opinions about contracts and licenses.
- socalgal2 4mo ago
  Writing at home is irrelevant if what you're doing is related to the company's business. You can't be working for Google and making a browser, a document editor, a spreadsheet, a mapping site, etc... It doesn't matter if you do it on your own time. Yea, you can grow coffee and sell it at retail stores on your own time. No you can't complete directly with your employer. If it's some gray area then you either get permission first or wait for the courts if you get sued. This isn't unique to Google. It's basic common law. No contract needs to be signed. Competing with your employer is immoral. If you want to compete then quit and be a competitor. If you're taking their money as an employee then you have a "duty of loyalty"
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
  - blitzar 4mo ago
    Its almost like the junior technofeudalists think the rules dont apply to them.
- userbinator 4mo ago
  Keeping a very strict "firewall" between your personal and corporate life is the best way to avoid such situations, but then again, these are Google employees we're talking about...
  - dekhn 4mo ago
    I'm not 100% sure what your point is here, but the point I was making is that even in theory if you have a "firewall", your contract with Google (that you signed and agreed to) says that Google owns your code output even if it's done at home on your own time. It really comes down to (at least for Googlers in California) whether the work is related to Google's business (which often covers things like games, even if Google is not a game developer), and even then, you need to submit the work to the Googler lawyers and have them make the determination, before you get permission to publish the code on your own. I saw this play out repeatedly with OSPO and saw many people who believed they had set up firewalls to allow this, and I understood Google's position and appreciated that they made it fairly easy for most people to open source their code.

danudey 4mo ago

He released the product with Google branding making it look extremely like an official Google project, and then it went viral and blindsided everyone who would have been involved in creating or approving this kind of tool internally. If I released a tool personally that I hadn't told anyone at work about and put my company's logos all over it and it went insanely viral then I would expect an extremely uncomfortable conversation with my manager, his manager, HR, and at least one lawyer.

woadwarrior01 4mo ago

You're absolutely allowed to release 20% time projects publicly. As in any large bureaucracy, there's a process for that which is taught during onboarding. What you're not allowed to do is skip the process. There's nothing Google specific about it and I've seen similar firings at other companies too. Skipping legal and corp comms review on any external public communication is grounds for termination.