4 ms·

The common theme for the discussed symbols is consideration for others. In New Zealand we require a yellow [L] sign on cars with learner drivers (with learners

by robocat 4mo ago

The common theme for the discussed symbols is consideration for others. In New Zealand we require a yellow [L] sign on cars with learner drivers (with learners drivers licenses). However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. I suspect New Zealanders are generally far less considerate than Japanese. Politeness avoids a trillion sharp edges. We also seem to be copying some of the US predilection of arsehole Ute (pickup) drivers.

jjtheblunt 4mo ago
> Politeness avoids a trillion sharp edges. i've never seen that before, and what a great phrase! Also, i'm in the US and don't know why this exists, but recently see this all over. https://www.liftedtrucks.com
- robocat 4mo ago
  Can't visit that site from NZ. I've mostly seen kits for lifting 4WDs in NZ. And I think the arsehole ute/pickup drivers are more of a tradie demographic. Lifted 4WDs here seen to most commonly be private older vehicles owned by a wider cross-section of society (lifted for image/status or offroad access), and perhaps are rarely work vehicles. Think lifted 1996 rough Land Cruiser, not a showoff expensive new Ford.
ggm 4mo ago
Also in the UK and Aus. It's bizarre that a sign saying "I'm learning, be kind" encourages some people to monster you, follow you swearing, generally hassle you. (33 years ago, still in my memory) It's as if they think it means HTFU and then go to hazing.
- payphonefiend 4mo ago
  In Aus when you get on your P plates you instantly feel like a mad dog and aggressively overtake L platers
- robocat 4mo ago
  > HTFU I'm guessing "Harden The Fuck Up"
JimTheMan 4mo ago
I didn't find that to the case in Australia, as someone who had L's for far longer than is standard. Mostly it meant that people gave you a wide berth, as learner drivers are unpredictable at times. So basically, what the sign intends. It surprises me to hear that about NZ? As I think of NZ, as our friendlier cousin. Just goes to show that our experiences are always hyperlocalised, and it's hard to actually make generalisations without actual data.
- woozlewuzzle 4mo ago
  Where abouts where you driving in Australia? I've had the same experiences as the parent commenter when learning to drive in Sydney. In general drivers in the bigger cities seem to be very aggressive.
  - brainwad 4mo ago
    Sydney drivers are very aggressive, but IME they do cut learners some slack. The learners just don't realise how much more aggressive people normally are... The 80km/h limit doesn't help either, as it forces a bunch of overtaking conflicts on freeways.
- ebbi 4mo ago
  > It surprises me to hear that about NZ? As I think of NZ, as our friendlier cousin. Kiwi here. Our driving is, in general, absolutely atrocious. I've driven in America, Australia, UK, Canada (also India, but let's exclude that for this purpose). Out of all these, NZ is the worst to drive in. Aggressive drivers (especially Ute/truck drivers). Drivers that shouldn't be on the road because they don't know how to drive (Toyota Aqua drivers!). People that drive totally oblivious to their surroundings. And then you have the selfish ones. They won't stay on the left-most lanes if not passing, they won't move to the left if another vehicle is behind them, and when on a single lane approaching a double lane section (overtaking lane), they will start to speed up so the cars behind them can't overtake. I think it comes down to the 'tall poppy syndrome' that Kiwis are known to have. Never experienced this kind of driving anywhere else. Other places, the drivers would have the courtesy to move out of the way if other vehicles are behind them.
xp84 4mo ago
That's nuts. I have seen a car in my city with a sticker that says: NEW DRIVER I'm freaking trying!! It makes me smile every time. I honestly had a hard time when I was first learning, and especially transitioning to driving in an urban environment. I would say those streets, intersections, etc. were poorly designed, but of course, none of it was designed, urban road designs simply "happen" and people need to just improvise their way through it.
freetime2 4mo ago
> However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. On a related theme - I have found when driving in the North Eastern US, when people put on their turn signal, other drivers will often speed up and close the gap rather than giving them space to merge.
- hunter2_ 4mo ago
  As a northeasterner, I can explain: In some other places, a turn signal before a lane change is an ask, to which others respond by creating more of a gap than there originally was. Here, it's not an ask but a statement that you've got enough of a gap already so you're going for it. As such, others don't find a need to react at all, which could mean the gap continues shrinking if it was already shrinking prior. The signaler needs to have anticipated it and not signaled until this problem doesn't exist, in fact it's scary when someone signals despite this problem because the other driver is led to believe they're unseen. When there's already a lot of momentum toward closing the gap, continuing to do so is a more fuel-efficient way out of the blind spot than using the brake pedal. Aside: turn signals that automatically flash 3 times with no reasonable way to cancel the remaining flashes when you discover a need to abort a lane change exacerbates the aforementioned scare, so I recommend disabling it.
  - streetfighter64 4mo ago
    > The signaler needs to have anticipated it and not signaled until this problem doesn't exist How do you handle an upcoming left turn (assuming right hand driving) during heavy traffic? It's not the responsibility of the car changing lanes to optimize the fuel economy of the cars behind, but it is the responsibility of the cars behind to not needlessly impede other drivers from getting where they need to go. > When there's already a lot of momentum toward closing the gap Does "momentum towards closing the gap" just mean that you're keeping a higher speed than the car in front of you? I don't see any reason you'd do this unless you have another free lane to the left and are planning to pass. If you don't then you're just reducing your margins to the next car for no reward, as you'd have to slow down anyway once the gap is "closed".
dcrazy 4mo ago
There has been an explosion of “student driver” stickers here in the SF Bay Area. It’s completely voluntary, and most the vehicles appear to be driven by people in their 30s.
- jagged-chisel 4mo ago
  My son waited later to get his learning permit. I’ve met folks living it cities who never got driving licenses because there was no need. Could indeed be new drivers in their 30s. Near me, it appears to be a decal parents are adding for the benefit of their high schoolers becoming new drivers.
tjpnz 4mo ago
Sometimes referred to as the loser plate, at least when I was growing up.
skhr0680 4mo ago
Bullying a car displaying any of the symbols displayed in the article is a ticketable offense in Japan* *I've never seen or heard of someone getting a ticket for merely inconsiderate driving, but it's there in the traffic law
- wlonkly 4mo ago
  I'm not sure what bullying a car entails, but does that mean you're allowed to bully cars without those symbols?
ruszki 4mo ago
It’s funny, because I felt that drivers were the chillest in New Zealand compared to anywhere in Europe, North America or Australia. There are regional differences (for example somebody mentioned Sydney here, which is truly different than for example North from there like Brisbane, Cairns; or obviously different parts of Europe can be vastly different), but I experienced the calmest driving experience in my whole life in and around Auckland. I labeled exactly zero other people as idiots there, but my scale is probably different than locals’. I drove a lot in Eastern Europe and South Italy. Compared to those places, New Zealand is heaven regarding this aspect.

by robocat 4mo ago

jjtheblunt 4mo ago

> Politeness avoids a trillion sharp edges. i've never seen that before, and what a great phrase! Also, i'm in the US and don't know why this exists, but recently see this all over. https://www.liftedtrucks.com

robocat 4mo ago
Can't visit that site from NZ. I've mostly seen kits for lifting 4WDs in NZ. And I think the arsehole ute/pickup drivers are more of a tradie demographic. Lifted 4WDs here seen to most commonly be private older vehicles owned by a wider cross-section of society (lifted for image/status or offroad access), and perhaps are rarely work vehicles. Think lifted 1996 rough Land Cruiser, not a showoff expensive new Ford.

ggm 4mo ago

Also in the UK and Aus. It's bizarre that a sign saying "I'm learning, be kind" encourages some people to monster you, follow you swearing, generally hassle you. (33 years ago, still in my memory) It's as if they think it means HTFU and then go to hazing.

payphonefiend 4mo ago
In Aus when you get on your P plates you instantly feel like a mad dog and aggressively overtake L platers
robocat 4mo ago
> HTFU I'm guessing "Harden The Fuck Up"

JimTheMan 4mo ago

I didn't find that to the case in Australia, as someone who had L's for far longer than is standard. Mostly it meant that people gave you a wide berth, as learner drivers are unpredictable at times. So basically, what the sign intends. It surprises me to hear that about NZ? As I think of NZ, as our friendlier cousin. Just goes to show that our experiences are always hyperlocalised, and it's hard to actually make generalisations without actual data.

woozlewuzzle 4mo ago
Where abouts where you driving in Australia? I've had the same experiences as the parent commenter when learning to drive in Sydney. In general drivers in the bigger cities seem to be very aggressive.
- brainwad 4mo ago
  Sydney drivers are very aggressive, but IME they do cut learners some slack. The learners just don't realise how much more aggressive people normally are... The 80km/h limit doesn't help either, as it forces a bunch of overtaking conflicts on freeways.
ebbi 4mo ago
> It surprises me to hear that about NZ? As I think of NZ, as our friendlier cousin. Kiwi here. Our driving is, in general, absolutely atrocious. I've driven in America, Australia, UK, Canada (also India, but let's exclude that for this purpose). Out of all these, NZ is the worst to drive in. Aggressive drivers (especially Ute/truck drivers). Drivers that shouldn't be on the road because they don't know how to drive (Toyota Aqua drivers!). People that drive totally oblivious to their surroundings. And then you have the selfish ones. They won't stay on the left-most lanes if not passing, they won't move to the left if another vehicle is behind them, and when on a single lane approaching a double lane section (overtaking lane), they will start to speed up so the cars behind them can't overtake. I think it comes down to the 'tall poppy syndrome' that Kiwis are known to have. Never experienced this kind of driving anywhere else. Other places, the drivers would have the courtesy to move out of the way if other vehicles are behind them.

xp84 4mo ago

That's nuts. I have seen a car in my city with a sticker that says: NEW DRIVER I'm freaking trying!! It makes me smile every time. I honestly had a hard time when I was first learning, and especially transitioning to driving in an urban environment. I would say those streets, intersections, etc. were poorly designed, but of course, none of it was designed, urban road designs simply "happen" and people need to just improvise their way through it.

freetime2 4mo ago

> However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. On a related theme - I have found when driving in the North Eastern US, when people put on their turn signal, other drivers will often speed up and close the gap rather than giving them space to merge.

hunter2_ 4mo ago
As a northeasterner, I can explain: In some other places, a turn signal before a lane change is an ask, to which others respond by creating more of a gap than there originally was. Here, it's not an ask but a statement that you've got enough of a gap already so you're going for it. As such, others don't find a need to react at all, which could mean the gap continues shrinking if it was already shrinking prior. The signaler needs to have anticipated it and not signaled until this problem doesn't exist, in fact it's scary when someone signals despite this problem because the other driver is led to believe they're unseen. When there's already a lot of momentum toward closing the gap, continuing to do so is a more fuel-efficient way out of the blind spot than using the brake pedal. Aside: turn signals that automatically flash 3 times with no reasonable way to cancel the remaining flashes when you discover a need to abort a lane change exacerbates the aforementioned scare, so I recommend disabling it.
- streetfighter64 4mo ago
  > The signaler needs to have anticipated it and not signaled until this problem doesn't exist How do you handle an upcoming left turn (assuming right hand driving) during heavy traffic? It's not the responsibility of the car changing lanes to optimize the fuel economy of the cars behind, but it is the responsibility of the cars behind to not needlessly impede other drivers from getting where they need to go. > When there's already a lot of momentum toward closing the gap Does "momentum towards closing the gap" just mean that you're keeping a higher speed than the car in front of you? I don't see any reason you'd do this unless you have another free lane to the left and are planning to pass. If you don't then you're just reducing your margins to the next car for no reward, as you'd have to slow down anyway once the gap is "closed".

dcrazy 4mo ago

There has been an explosion of “student driver” stickers here in the SF Bay Area. It’s completely voluntary, and most the vehicles appear to be driven by people in their 30s.

jagged-chisel 4mo ago
My son waited later to get his learning permit. I’ve met folks living it cities who never got driving licenses because there was no need. Could indeed be new drivers in their 30s. Near me, it appears to be a decal parents are adding for the benefit of their high schoolers becoming new drivers.

tjpnz 4mo ago

Sometimes referred to as the loser plate, at least when I was growing up.

skhr0680 4mo ago

Bullying a car displaying any of the symbols displayed in the article is a ticketable offense in Japan* *I've never seen or heard of someone getting a ticket for merely inconsiderate driving, but it's there in the traffic law

wlonkly 4mo ago
I'm not sure what bullying a car entails, but does that mean you're allowed to bully cars without those symbols?

ruszki 4mo ago

It’s funny, because I felt that drivers were the chillest in New Zealand compared to anywhere in Europe, North America or Australia. There are regional differences (for example somebody mentioned Sydney here, which is truly different than for example North from there like Brisbane, Cairns; or obviously different parts of Europe can be vastly different), but I experienced the calmest driving experience in my whole life in and around Auckland. I labeled exactly zero other people as idiots there, but my scale is probably different than locals’. I drove a lot in Eastern Europe and South Italy. Compared to those places, New Zealand is heaven regarding this aspect.