12 ms·

Japanese symbols that speak without words

198 points by msephton 4mo ago

robocat 4mo ago
The common theme for the discussed symbols is consideration for others. In New Zealand we require a yellow [L] sign on cars with learner drivers (with learners drivers licenses). However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. I suspect New Zealanders are generally far less considerate than Japanese. Politeness avoids a trillion sharp edges. We also seem to be copying some of the US predilection of arsehole Ute (pickup) drivers.
- jjtheblunt 4mo ago
  > Politeness avoids a trillion sharp edges. i've never seen that before, and what a great phrase! Also, i'm in the US and don't know why this exists, but recently see this all over. https://www.liftedtrucks.com
  - robocat 4mo ago
    Can't visit that site from NZ. I've mostly seen kits for lifting 4WDs in NZ. And I think the arsehole ute/pickup drivers are more of a tradie demographic. Lifted 4WDs here seen to most commonly be private older vehicles owned by a wider cross-section of society (lifted for image/status or offroad access), and perhaps are rarely work vehicles. Think lifted 1996 rough Land Cruiser, not a showoff expensive new Ford.
- ggm 4mo ago
  Also in the UK and Aus. It's bizarre that a sign saying "I'm learning, be kind" encourages some people to monster you, follow you swearing, generally hassle you. (33 years ago, still in my memory) It's as if they think it means HTFU and then go to hazing.
  - payphonefiend 4mo ago
    In Aus when you get on your P plates you instantly feel like a mad dog and aggressively overtake L platers
  - robocat 4mo ago
    > HTFU I'm guessing "Harden The Fuck Up"
- JimTheMan 4mo ago
  I didn't find that to the case in Australia, as someone who had L's for far longer than is standard. Mostly it meant that people gave you a wide berth, as learner drivers are unpredictable at times. So basically, what the sign intends. It surprises me to hear that about NZ? As I think of NZ, as our friendlier cousin. Just goes to show that our experiences are always hyperlocalised, and it's hard to actually make generalisations without actual data.
  - woozlewuzzle 4mo ago
    Where abouts where you driving in Australia? I've had the same experiences as the parent commenter when learning to drive in Sydney. In general drivers in the bigger cities seem to be very aggressive.
    - brainwad 4mo ago
      Sydney drivers are very aggressive, but IME they do cut learners some slack. The learners just don't realise how much more aggressive people normally are... The 80km/h limit doesn't help either, as it forces a bunch of overtaking conflicts on freeways.
  - ebbi 4mo ago
    > It surprises me to hear that about NZ? As I think of NZ, as our friendlier cousin. Kiwi here. Our driving is, in general, absolutely atrocious. I've driven in America, Australia, UK, Canada (also India, but let's exclude that for this purpose). Out of all these, NZ is the worst to drive in. Aggressive drivers (especially Ute/truck drivers). Drivers that shouldn't be on the road because they don't know how to drive (Toyota Aqua drivers!). People that drive totally oblivious to their surroundings. And then you have the selfish ones. They won't stay on the left-most lanes if not passing, they won't move to the left if another vehicle is behind them, and when on a single lane approaching a double lane section (overtaking lane), they will start to speed up so the cars behind them can't overtake. I think it comes down to the 'tall poppy syndrome' that Kiwis are known to have. Never experienced this kind of driving anywhere else. Other places, the drivers would have the courtesy to move out of the way if other vehicles are behind them.
- xp84 4mo ago
  That's nuts. I have seen a car in my city with a sticker that says: NEW DRIVER I'm freaking trying!! It makes me smile every time. I honestly had a hard time when I was first learning, and especially transitioning to driving in an urban environment. I would say those streets, intersections, etc. were poorly designed, but of course, none of it was designed, urban road designs simply "happen" and people need to just improvise their way through it.
- freetime2 4mo ago
  > However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. On a related theme - I have found when driving in the North Eastern US, when people put on their turn signal, other drivers will often speed up and close the gap rather than giving them space to merge.
  - hunter2_ 4mo ago
    As a northeasterner, I can explain: In some other places, a turn signal before a lane change is an ask, to which others respond by creating more of a gap than there originally was. Here, it's not an ask but a statement that you've got enough of a gap already so you're going for it. As such, others don't find a need to react at all, which could mean the gap continues shrinking if it was already shrinking prior. The signaler needs to have anticipated it and not signaled until this problem doesn't exist, in fact it's scary when someone signals despite this problem because the other driver is led to believe they're unseen. When there's already a lot of momentum toward closing the gap, continuing to do so is a more fuel-efficient way out of the blind spot than using the brake pedal. Aside: turn signals that automatically flash 3 times with no reasonable way to cancel the remaining flashes when you discover a need to abort a lane change exacerbates the aforementioned scare, so I recommend disabling it.
    - streetfighter64 4mo ago
      > The signaler needs to have anticipated it and not signaled until this problem doesn't exist How do you handle an upcoming left turn (assuming right hand driving) during heavy traffic? It's not the responsibility of the car changing lanes to optimize the fuel economy of the cars behind, but it is the responsibility of the cars behind to not needlessly impede other drivers from getting where they need to go. > When there's already a lot of momentum toward closing the gap Does "momentum towards closing the gap" just mean that you're keeping a higher speed than the car in front of you? I don't see any reason you'd do this unless you have another free lane to the left and are planning to pass. If you don't then you're just reducing your margins to the next car for no reward, as you'd have to slow down anyway once the gap is "closed".
- dcrazy 4mo ago
  There has been an explosion of “student driver” stickers here in the SF Bay Area. It’s completely voluntary, and most the vehicles appear to be driven by people in their 30s.
  - jagged-chisel 4mo ago
    My son waited later to get his learning permit. I’ve met folks living it cities who never got driving licenses because there was no need. Could indeed be new drivers in their 30s. Near me, it appears to be a decal parents are adding for the benefit of their high schoolers becoming new drivers.
- tjpnz 4mo ago
  Sometimes referred to as the loser plate, at least when I was growing up.
- skhr0680 4mo ago
  Bullying a car displaying any of the symbols displayed in the article is a ticketable offense in Japan* *I've never seen or heard of someone getting a ticket for merely inconsiderate driving, but it's there in the traffic law
  - wlonkly 4mo ago
    I'm not sure what bullying a car entails, but does that mean you're allowed to bully cars without those symbols?
- ruszki 4mo ago
  It’s funny, because I felt that drivers were the chillest in New Zealand compared to anywhere in Europe, North America or Australia. There are regional differences (for example somebody mentioned Sydney here, which is truly different than for example North from there like Brisbane, Cairns; or obviously different parts of Europe can be vastly different), but I experienced the calmest driving experience in my whole life in and around Auckland. I labeled exactly zero other people as idiots there, but my scale is probably different than locals’. I drove a lot in Eastern Europe and South Italy. Compared to those places, New Zealand is heaven regarding this aspect.
netsharc 4mo ago
The logo expressing "Limited Express" is very unspecific, imagine if buses with the Mercedes star cost extra and didn't stop at every stop. Interesting that a lot of US road signs have words on them: https://ygraph.com/graphs/roadsigns-20120316T030941-ekrruua.jpeg https://ygraph.com/graphs/roadsigns-20120316T030941-ekrruua.... , or are obvious, whereas in Europe drivers need to learn what they mean: https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhEsnnyoBcf6BUdHwReUTgc9SiAU3QipOnFfaTsL5oEotKAHzR2o3mY3KRWNcQZlc8FIt7jEVig57qcNuRF3gaRfZui9-qg5TabnB1afau70Uu5f1sMEm6kRmGFggkYv8DICWfVbCK8ct0/s1600/Europe+Road+Signs.jpg https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh... For example the yield triangle, no stopping and no parking are probably unfamiliar to US drivers. Meanwhile all Alfa Romeo Quadrofoglio drivers might be mistaken for drivers with missing limbs in Japan.
- lexicality 4mo ago
  It was very surprising for me when I visited the US to see just how much space was wasted writing everything out on every sign and sometimes in giant words on the road. It did also make me a bit worried about the expected level of driver education...
  - xp84 4mo ago
    To me it's odd to imply people must be stupid because they're expected to read a few simple words such as "Left lane must turn left" rather than to memorize a bunch of symbols. American signs very frequently combine both styles - for instance, you see the above words next to a sign with arrows for whatever lanes, wordlessly illustrating the turn types permitted. If someone is a new driver, who hasn't seen the symbolic signs enough, the word signs are a good fallback. The goal is to maximize accessibility.
    - streetfighter64 4mo ago
      The system of signs used is an independent question from the level of driver education (which probably is generally lower in the USA than in most European countries though), which also is another question from whether people "are stupid". The obvious benefit of the European style is that you don't need to speak the language in order to understand the signs, something that is clearly less important given the relative homogeneity of language in the USA. But at least to me, the European road signs are also more quick to read. For example, the "only right turns" and "speed limit 60" are exactly the same shape and color in the USA, while in Europe there is more of a logical system (which also means you don't "memorize a bunch of symbols", you learn the "language" of the signs), such as blue disc means "mandatory", red circle means "prohibited", red triangle means "warning", etc.
nephihaha 4mo ago
Very interesting but the comparisons are somewhat US-centric. For example, there is an equivalent to the heart and cross in some western countries which is the sunflower lanyard.
IndySun 4mo ago
If "drivers of private vehicles in Japan", must understand these "four symbols" then these are not "Japanese symbols that speak without words".
- comradesmith 4mo ago
  I don’t understand your comment. Can you spell it out for me?
  - IndySun 4mo ago
    The article is decent, but the headline is saying something demonstrably false - evidenced by the article itself. Not one of the symbols can possibly be understood as to its intended meaning without learning what the symbol represents - that is to say, simply by looking at any of them in no way whatsoever suggests, hints, or shows their meaning in the appropriate context.
    - nekooooo 4mo ago
      japan glazing imho and i love kamon (family crests). you could have written this article about almost any country.
      - petesergeant 4mo ago
        The kamon are very attractive compared to their Western counterparts, to my eye. Other than that it’s just a weird “wow Japan” article.
    - freetime2 4mo ago
      I understood the article to mean, for example, that the help mark allows people on a train to signal "though I may not outwardly appear like I am disabled, I do have a need for priority seating". And thus people would (hopefully) offer up their seat without needing to be asked with words. I don't think they meant that the symbols should be universally understood without need for explanation. That would be accomplished separately through some sort of public education campaign. In the case of the "help mark", they actually explain what it means in multiple languages in a big sign right above the priority seating [1]. [1] https://www.kotsu.metro.tokyo.jp/eng/guides/conduct/ https://www.kotsu.metro.tokyo.jp/eng/guides/conduct/
1317 4mo ago
P Plates, Japan
1-6 4mo ago
I don't see anything particularly special about these symbols. Don't get me wrong, I like Japan but while these icons look nice, don't most symbols already speak without words?
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- xp84 4mo ago
  My reading of it is that it isn't the use of symbols that is notable, but rather here are a few handfuls of roles that symbolic decals and signs have been given in Japan, most of which we don't have in North America at least. A lot of them are quite smart. Sure, the special badge for the front of a police or fire vehicle is pretty redundant, but it would be nice if we had a universal understanding of a couple of these just as we understand what the blue handicap icon means. I would nominate the best as: 1. The cross + heart one for people with hidden disabilities. This is probably top of mind for me because I have a family member who could use some extra understanding due to a condition. 2. The new driver, elderly driver, and deaf driver. The first one is obviously so useful that we've just created dozens of one-off text decals (clearly inferior, as they have to be noticed, read, and interpreted, rather than just recognized). It should be handed to you along with your permit and made compulsory like Japan describes. As for the elderly one, it would be useful to tip us off to give them more space, and also to inspire us to think of our grandmas when we see such a car making a mistake on the road, instead of defaulting to assuming the driver is a deliberately uncourteous prick as we sometimes do. (As for the "if people are too old to drive correctly, we should take their licenses away" argument, let's assume it's been made, and that someone has pointed out the tradeoffs of that policy in the real world that we live in.)
- Blikkentrekker 4mo ago
  There is a general culture that one sometimes sees which treats anything related to Japan as highly remarkable. Ancient Japanese swords can literally cut through diamond like butter by being folded over 1 000 times after all.
- dcrazy 4mo ago
  I always find it interesting to learn about symbols or iconography that a culture takes for granted that would be unknown or even invisible to an outsider. Japanese heraldry is particularly captivating because of its apparent influence on corporate logo design of the 1960s. Between mon and traditional Japanese architecture, it’s eye-opening to see parallels between post-war American modernism and millennia of Japanese design. In the spirit of this article, Cabel Sasser [1] once jokingly referred to U+1F4DB as “tofu on fire,” but eventually learned it is universally understood by Japanese people as a child’s school name tag. [1]: https://bsky.app/profile/cabel.panic.com/post/3lxusfd6f5k2c https://bsky.app/profile/cabel.panic.com/post/3lxusfd6f5k2c For a non-Japanese example, it wasn’t until I visited Europe that the “fleeing man” universally used for exit signage over there would have meant anything to me. You can drop that icon into something and immediately convey danger, flight to safety, etc.
msephton 4mo ago
I'm a big user of the shoshinsha mark (beginner) emoji
CHUNK_CHUNK 4mo ago
One thing I'd add: the "kuuki wo yomu" concept extends beyond symbols into everyday social cues too. A classic example is the "genkan" (entryway) — the slight step-up from outdoor to indoor floor level silently tells you where to remove your shoes, no sign needed. The whole house layout enforces the unspoken rule. Train station melody chimes are another great example — they differ by station and line, so locals unconsciously recognize which station they're at by sound alone, without reading anything. There are countless other forms of "reading the air" throughout Japanese daily life. I'd genuinely recommend visiting Japan once to experience it firsthand.
- bitwize 4mo ago
  If you hear a Japanese person yell "K.Y.! K.Y.!" you'd better blush, and not because they're referring to a fun-times lubricant. It stands for "kūki yomenai", literally "cannot read the atmosphere". Kind of like "Hey, read the room, asshole!"
jaredXX 4mo ago
Pretty neat
masa-kozu 4mo ago
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dd-sharma 4mo ago
Several years back I lived in Tokyo for a couple of years. I like learning the local language. I could mostly get by with the spoken Japanese (Nihongo). Tried to learn the script but failed miserably. It's a combination of Hirgana alphabets, Katakana alphabets and to top it all 10s of thousands of Chinese Kanji. Loved my stay, very polite people. I think their vocabulary doesn't have the word impolite (polite and less polite). I would say Japanese script is one of the hardest if not hardest.
- Tor3 4mo ago
  The article is not about the Japanese language, and it's not about writing systems, Kanji or otherwise.
  - dd-sharma 4mo ago
    Sorry, I guess I missed the point. Looks like I got carried away by my experience.
wetwater 4mo ago
This is a classic case of "Thing in japan". Yes 'wakaba' mark is cool. But the exact same point can be made about a big red L . Far more ubiquitous. Also there are beautiful medieval crests on British Fire engines. I doubt that purely wordless, symbolic system was truly the ultimate pinnacle of operational clarity.
- quadrifoliate 4mo ago
  I would love to read your article about the beautiful medieval crests on British fire engines, too! No joke, feel free to link something in reply to my comment as well if you have existing articles. I feel like there has been a lot of unnecessary pushback about 'Thing in Japan' articles on the internet. Guess what, there are cool things everywhere; including Japan. Write about the ones you know about!
  - mock-possum 4mo ago
    I think the point is more that nobody thinks weeb content is good except for weebs. Or, if you like, it’s still all just orientalism.
  - unpopularopp 4mo ago
    >I feel like there has been a lot of unnecessary pushback about 'Thing in Japan' articles on the internet. Guess what, there are cool things everywhere; including Japan. That's the point of the whole meme. People think it's interesting because of Japan not because of the content itself is interesting. Did you know there are 12,000 Zabka stores in Poland and they are almost as ubiquitous as konbinis? Guess what, no gives a fuck because it's not Japan but an eastern European country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBabka_(convenience_store) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBabka_(convenience_store)
    - psp99 4mo ago
      [dead]
    - moondowner 4mo ago
TacticalCoder 4mo ago
Slightly related cool one that my japanese family explained me is that 'w' was used for 'warau' (aka "lol") in online japanese speech. And so for "laughing a lot" people would write 'wwwwwwww'. But then 'wwwwwwwwww' looks not unlike grass. So now to say they're laughing a lot, they're using the real kanji for grass. We went from 'w', a romanji used as a shortcut for a japanese word, to a kanji because, visually, many 'wwwwwwww' looked somehow like grass. It's fascinating how in Japan the approach feels more visual. I mean: we may be doing similar things with our "romanji" (roman characters, as japanese calls them) but it's less common. Speech / ideas / words: it's really something else.
BrenBarn 4mo ago
I think the fact that these symbols are "not words" is not in itself super earth-shattering. What really matters is whether they have to be learned like words. You could learn the words "New Driver" as a single "symbol", or you could learn the beginner symbol. The advantage of a verbal label is you can understand it without learning it, if you know the system its embdded in (i.e., English); its disadvantage is it's a big more complex and harder to distinguish from other symbols in that system if you don't know the system. The advantage of the symbol is it's compact and can be learned without having to take on the full complexity of a linguistic writing system; the disadvantage is it has to be learned separately by everyone, even those who already know a much more powerful system (namely, writing). There are limits to both. Obviously it wouldn't be effective to have a bumper sticker that says "This driver has been driving for less than a year, so please use caution around them"; if you lean too much on the power of writing, you make it too hard to quickly identify the meaning. On the other hand, it's not easy to come up with a wide variety of sui generis symbols and still have them be visually distinguishable at a glance, so there's also a limit to how far that approach can get you. I do wonder whether there is some link between differential reliance on symbols of this sort and the use of alphabetic vs. nonalphabetic writing systems in different languages/cultures. Like, crudely speaking, is it the case that, because you already have to learn so many separate symbols to read Japanese, learning a few more for stuff like "elderly driver" isn't much of an extra load? Or is it the reverse, that because you have to learn so many symbols to read Japanese, they want to make these separate symbols for a small set of important meanings so people can learn them even if they don't know how to read? I'm not sure whether there's a real link here or not but it's interesting to think about.
- dekdrop 4mo ago
  The way "New Driver" hits brain is different than a symbol. Wordings develops much more rational impression of it.
fsadsadsdasdas 4mo ago
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khaki_pine 4mo ago
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guoqidu71 4mo ago
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kazinator 4mo ago
> For those who are hearing impaired, there’s the chōkaku shōgaisha hyōshiki, which is a butterfly-shaped mark in yellow and green. They used a pictogram to convey a kanji pun (chō refers to butterfly (蝶) as well as part of the word chõkaku (聴覚), sense of hearing). How dumb; at least the butterfly wings sort of look like ears a little bit.

198 points by msephton 4mo ago

The common theme for the discussed symbols is consideration for others. In New Zealand we require a yellow [L] sign on cars with learner drivers (with learners drivers licenses). However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. I suspect New Zealanders are generally far less considerate than Japanese. Politeness avoids a trillion sharp edges. We also seem to be copying some of the US predilection of arsehole Ute (pickup) drivers.

jjtheblunt 4mo ago
> Politeness avoids a trillion sharp edges. i've never seen that before, and what a great phrase! Also, i'm in the US and don't know why this exists, but recently see this all over. https://www.liftedtrucks.com
- robocat 4mo ago
  Can't visit that site from NZ. I've mostly seen kits for lifting 4WDs in NZ. And I think the arsehole ute/pickup drivers are more of a tradie demographic. Lifted 4WDs here seen to most commonly be private older vehicles owned by a wider cross-section of society (lifted for image/status or offroad access), and perhaps are rarely work vehicles. Think lifted 1996 rough Land Cruiser, not a showoff expensive new Ford.
ggm 4mo ago
Also in the UK and Aus. It's bizarre that a sign saying "I'm learning, be kind" encourages some people to monster you, follow you swearing, generally hassle you. (33 years ago, still in my memory) It's as if they think it means HTFU and then go to hazing.
- payphonefiend 4mo ago
  In Aus when you get on your P plates you instantly feel like a mad dog and aggressively overtake L platers
- robocat 4mo ago
  > HTFU I'm guessing "Harden The Fuck Up"
JimTheMan 4mo ago
I didn't find that to the case in Australia, as someone who had L's for far longer than is standard. Mostly it meant that people gave you a wide berth, as learner drivers are unpredictable at times. So basically, what the sign intends. It surprises me to hear that about NZ? As I think of NZ, as our friendlier cousin. Just goes to show that our experiences are always hyperlocalised, and it's hard to actually make generalisations without actual data.
- woozlewuzzle 4mo ago
  Where abouts where you driving in Australia? I've had the same experiences as the parent commenter when learning to drive in Sydney. In general drivers in the bigger cities seem to be very aggressive.
  - brainwad 4mo ago
    Sydney drivers are very aggressive, but IME they do cut learners some slack. The learners just don't realise how much more aggressive people normally are... The 80km/h limit doesn't help either, as it forces a bunch of overtaking conflicts on freeways.
- ebbi 4mo ago
  > It surprises me to hear that about NZ? As I think of NZ, as our friendlier cousin. Kiwi here. Our driving is, in general, absolutely atrocious. I've driven in America, Australia, UK, Canada (also India, but let's exclude that for this purpose). Out of all these, NZ is the worst to drive in. Aggressive drivers (especially Ute/truck drivers). Drivers that shouldn't be on the road because they don't know how to drive (Toyota Aqua drivers!). People that drive totally oblivious to their surroundings. And then you have the selfish ones. They won't stay on the left-most lanes if not passing, they won't move to the left if another vehicle is behind them, and when on a single lane approaching a double lane section (overtaking lane), they will start to speed up so the cars behind them can't overtake. I think it comes down to the 'tall poppy syndrome' that Kiwis are known to have. Never experienced this kind of driving anywhere else. Other places, the drivers would have the courtesy to move out of the way if other vehicles are behind them.
xp84 4mo ago
That's nuts. I have seen a car in my city with a sticker that says: NEW DRIVER I'm freaking trying!! It makes me smile every time. I honestly had a hard time when I was first learning, and especially transitioning to driving in an urban environment. I would say those streets, intersections, etc. were poorly designed, but of course, none of it was designed, urban road designs simply "happen" and people need to just improvise their way through it.
freetime2 4mo ago
> However I get the impression that other drivers are less considerate around a car displaying the [L] sign. On a related theme - I have found when driving in the North Eastern US, when people put on their turn signal, other drivers will often speed up and close the gap rather than giving them space to merge.
- hunter2_ 4mo ago
  As a northeasterner, I can explain: In some other places, a turn signal before a lane change is an ask, to which others respond by creating more of a gap than there originally was. Here, it's not an ask but a statement that you've got enough of a gap already so you're going for it. As such, others don't find a need to react at all, which could mean the gap continues shrinking if it was already shrinking prior. The signaler needs to have anticipated it and not signaled until this problem doesn't exist, in fact it's scary when someone signals despite this problem because the other driver is led to believe they're unseen. When there's already a lot of momentum toward closing the gap, continuing to do so is a more fuel-efficient way out of the blind spot than using the brake pedal. Aside: turn signals that automatically flash 3 times with no reasonable way to cancel the remaining flashes when you discover a need to abort a lane change exacerbates the aforementioned scare, so I recommend disabling it.
  - streetfighter64 4mo ago
    > The signaler needs to have anticipated it and not signaled until this problem doesn't exist How do you handle an upcoming left turn (assuming right hand driving) during heavy traffic? It's not the responsibility of the car changing lanes to optimize the fuel economy of the cars behind, but it is the responsibility of the cars behind to not needlessly impede other drivers from getting where they need to go. > When there's already a lot of momentum toward closing the gap Does "momentum towards closing the gap" just mean that you're keeping a higher speed than the car in front of you? I don't see any reason you'd do this unless you have another free lane to the left and are planning to pass. If you don't then you're just reducing your margins to the next car for no reward, as you'd have to slow down anyway once the gap is "closed".
dcrazy 4mo ago
There has been an explosion of “student driver” stickers here in the SF Bay Area. It’s completely voluntary, and most the vehicles appear to be driven by people in their 30s.
- jagged-chisel 4mo ago
  My son waited later to get his learning permit. I’ve met folks living it cities who never got driving licenses because there was no need. Could indeed be new drivers in their 30s. Near me, it appears to be a decal parents are adding for the benefit of their high schoolers becoming new drivers.
tjpnz 4mo ago
Sometimes referred to as the loser plate, at least when I was growing up.
skhr0680 4mo ago
Bullying a car displaying any of the symbols displayed in the article is a ticketable offense in Japan* *I've never seen or heard of someone getting a ticket for merely inconsiderate driving, but it's there in the traffic law
- wlonkly 4mo ago
  I'm not sure what bullying a car entails, but does that mean you're allowed to bully cars without those symbols?
ruszki 4mo ago
It’s funny, because I felt that drivers were the chillest in New Zealand compared to anywhere in Europe, North America or Australia. There are regional differences (for example somebody mentioned Sydney here, which is truly different than for example North from there like Brisbane, Cairns; or obviously different parts of Europe can be vastly different), but I experienced the calmest driving experience in my whole life in and around Auckland. I labeled exactly zero other people as idiots there, but my scale is probably different than locals’. I drove a lot in Eastern Europe and South Italy. Compared to those places, New Zealand is heaven regarding this aspect.

netsharc 4mo ago

The logo expressing "Limited Express" is very unspecific, imagine if buses with the Mercedes star cost extra and didn't stop at every stop. Interesting that a lot of US road signs have words on them: https://ygraph.com/graphs/roadsigns-20120316T030941-ekrruua.jpeg https://ygraph.com/graphs/roadsigns-20120316T030941-ekrruua.... , or are obvious, whereas in Europe drivers need to learn what they mean: https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhEsnnyoBcf6BUdHwReUTgc9SiAU3QipOnFfaTsL5oEotKAHzR2o3mY3KRWNcQZlc8FIt7jEVig57qcNuRF3gaRfZui9-qg5TabnB1afau70Uu5f1sMEm6kRmGFggkYv8DICWfVbCK8ct0/s1600/Europe+Road+Signs.jpg https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh... For example the yield triangle, no stopping and no parking are probably unfamiliar to US drivers. Meanwhile all Alfa Romeo Quadrofoglio drivers might be mistaken for drivers with missing limbs in Japan.

lexicality 4mo ago
It was very surprising for me when I visited the US to see just how much space was wasted writing everything out on every sign and sometimes in giant words on the road. It did also make me a bit worried about the expected level of driver education...
- xp84 4mo ago
  To me it's odd to imply people must be stupid because they're expected to read a few simple words such as "Left lane must turn left" rather than to memorize a bunch of symbols. American signs very frequently combine both styles - for instance, you see the above words next to a sign with arrows for whatever lanes, wordlessly illustrating the turn types permitted. If someone is a new driver, who hasn't seen the symbolic signs enough, the word signs are a good fallback. The goal is to maximize accessibility.
  - streetfighter64 4mo ago
    The system of signs used is an independent question from the level of driver education (which probably is generally lower in the USA than in most European countries though), which also is another question from whether people "are stupid". The obvious benefit of the European style is that you don't need to speak the language in order to understand the signs, something that is clearly less important given the relative homogeneity of language in the USA. But at least to me, the European road signs are also more quick to read. For example, the "only right turns" and "speed limit 60" are exactly the same shape and color in the USA, while in Europe there is more of a logical system (which also means you don't "memorize a bunch of symbols", you learn the "language" of the signs), such as blue disc means "mandatory", red circle means "prohibited", red triangle means "warning", etc.

nephihaha 4mo ago

Very interesting but the comparisons are somewhat US-centric. For example, there is an equivalent to the heart and cross in some western countries which is the sunflower lanyard.

IndySun 4mo ago

If "drivers of private vehicles in Japan", must understand these "four symbols" then these are not "Japanese symbols that speak without words".

comradesmith 4mo ago
I don’t understand your comment. Can you spell it out for me?
- IndySun 4mo ago
  The article is decent, but the headline is saying something demonstrably false - evidenced by the article itself. Not one of the symbols can possibly be understood as to its intended meaning without learning what the symbol represents - that is to say, simply by looking at any of them in no way whatsoever suggests, hints, or shows their meaning in the appropriate context.
  - nekooooo 4mo ago
    japan glazing imho and i love kamon (family crests). you could have written this article about almost any country.
    - petesergeant 4mo ago
      The kamon are very attractive compared to their Western counterparts, to my eye. Other than that it’s just a weird “wow Japan” article.
  - freetime2 4mo ago
    I understood the article to mean, for example, that the help mark allows people on a train to signal "though I may not outwardly appear like I am disabled, I do have a need for priority seating". And thus people would (hopefully) offer up their seat without needing to be asked with words. I don't think they meant that the symbols should be universally understood without need for explanation. That would be accomplished separately through some sort of public education campaign. In the case of the "help mark", they actually explain what it means in multiple languages in a big sign right above the priority seating [1]. [1] https://www.kotsu.metro.tokyo.jp/eng/guides/conduct/ https://www.kotsu.metro.tokyo.jp/eng/guides/conduct/

1317 4mo ago

P Plates, Japan

1-6 4mo ago

I don't see anything particularly special about these symbols. Don't get me wrong, I like Japan but while these icons look nice, don't most symbols already speak without words?

deleted 4mo ago
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xp84 4mo ago
My reading of it is that it isn't the use of symbols that is notable, but rather here are a few handfuls of roles that symbolic decals and signs have been given in Japan, most of which we don't have in North America at least. A lot of them are quite smart. Sure, the special badge for the front of a police or fire vehicle is pretty redundant, but it would be nice if we had a universal understanding of a couple of these just as we understand what the blue handicap icon means. I would nominate the best as: 1. The cross + heart one for people with hidden disabilities. This is probably top of mind for me because I have a family member who could use some extra understanding due to a condition. 2. The new driver, elderly driver, and deaf driver. The first one is obviously so useful that we've just created dozens of one-off text decals (clearly inferior, as they have to be noticed, read, and interpreted, rather than just recognized). It should be handed to you along with your permit and made compulsory like Japan describes. As for the elderly one, it would be useful to tip us off to give them more space, and also to inspire us to think of our grandmas when we see such a car making a mistake on the road, instead of defaulting to assuming the driver is a deliberately uncourteous prick as we sometimes do. (As for the "if people are too old to drive correctly, we should take their licenses away" argument, let's assume it's been made, and that someone has pointed out the tradeoffs of that policy in the real world that we live in.)
Blikkentrekker 4mo ago
There is a general culture that one sometimes sees which treats anything related to Japan as highly remarkable. Ancient Japanese swords can literally cut through diamond like butter by being folded over 1 000 times after all.
dcrazy 4mo ago
I always find it interesting to learn about symbols or iconography that a culture takes for granted that would be unknown or even invisible to an outsider. Japanese heraldry is particularly captivating because of its apparent influence on corporate logo design of the 1960s. Between mon and traditional Japanese architecture, it’s eye-opening to see parallels between post-war American modernism and millennia of Japanese design. In the spirit of this article, Cabel Sasser [1] once jokingly referred to U+1F4DB as “tofu on fire,” but eventually learned it is universally understood by Japanese people as a child’s school name tag. [1]: https://bsky.app/profile/cabel.panic.com/post/3lxusfd6f5k2c https://bsky.app/profile/cabel.panic.com/post/3lxusfd6f5k2c For a non-Japanese example, it wasn’t until I visited Europe that the “fleeing man” universally used for exit signage over there would have meant anything to me. You can drop that icon into something and immediately convey danger, flight to safety, etc.

msephton 4mo ago

I'm a big user of the shoshinsha mark (beginner) emoji

CHUNK_CHUNK 4mo ago

One thing I'd add: the "kuuki wo yomu" concept extends beyond symbols into everyday social cues too. A classic example is the "genkan" (entryway) — the slight step-up from outdoor to indoor floor level silently tells you where to remove your shoes, no sign needed. The whole house layout enforces the unspoken rule. Train station melody chimes are another great example — they differ by station and line, so locals unconsciously recognize which station they're at by sound alone, without reading anything. There are countless other forms of "reading the air" throughout Japanese daily life. I'd genuinely recommend visiting Japan once to experience it firsthand.

bitwize 4mo ago
If you hear a Japanese person yell "K.Y.! K.Y.!" you'd better blush, and not because they're referring to a fun-times lubricant. It stands for "kūki yomenai", literally "cannot read the atmosphere". Kind of like "Hey, read the room, asshole!"

jaredXX 4mo ago

Pretty neat

masa-kozu 4mo ago

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dd-sharma 4mo ago

Several years back I lived in Tokyo for a couple of years. I like learning the local language. I could mostly get by with the spoken Japanese (Nihongo). Tried to learn the script but failed miserably. It's a combination of Hirgana alphabets, Katakana alphabets and to top it all 10s of thousands of Chinese Kanji. Loved my stay, very polite people. I think their vocabulary doesn't have the word impolite (polite and less polite). I would say Japanese script is one of the hardest if not hardest.

Tor3 4mo ago
The article is not about the Japanese language, and it's not about writing systems, Kanji or otherwise.
- dd-sharma 4mo ago
  Sorry, I guess I missed the point. Looks like I got carried away by my experience.

wetwater 4mo ago

This is a classic case of "Thing in japan". Yes 'wakaba' mark is cool. But the exact same point can be made about a big red L . Far more ubiquitous. Also there are beautiful medieval crests on British Fire engines. I doubt that purely wordless, symbolic system was truly the ultimate pinnacle of operational clarity.

quadrifoliate 4mo ago
I would love to read your article about the beautiful medieval crests on British fire engines, too! No joke, feel free to link something in reply to my comment as well if you have existing articles. I feel like there has been a lot of unnecessary pushback about 'Thing in Japan' articles on the internet. Guess what, there are cool things everywhere; including Japan. Write about the ones you know about!
- mock-possum 4mo ago
  I think the point is more that nobody thinks weeb content is good except for weebs. Or, if you like, it’s still all just orientalism.
- unpopularopp 4mo ago
  >I feel like there has been a lot of unnecessary pushback about 'Thing in Japan' articles on the internet. Guess what, there are cool things everywhere; including Japan. That's the point of the whole meme. People think it's interesting because of Japan not because of the content itself is interesting. Did you know there are 12,000 Zabka stores in Poland and they are almost as ubiquitous as konbinis? Guess what, no gives a fuck because it's not Japan but an eastern European country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBabka_(convenience_store) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBabka_(convenience_store)
  - psp99 4mo ago
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  - moondowner 4mo ago

TacticalCoder 4mo ago

Slightly related cool one that my japanese family explained me is that 'w' was used for 'warau' (aka "lol") in online japanese speech. And so for "laughing a lot" people would write 'wwwwwwww'. But then 'wwwwwwwwww' looks not unlike grass. So now to say they're laughing a lot, they're using the real kanji for grass. We went from 'w', a romanji used as a shortcut for a japanese word, to a kanji because, visually, many 'wwwwwwww' looked somehow like grass. It's fascinating how in Japan the approach feels more visual. I mean: we may be doing similar things with our "romanji" (roman characters, as japanese calls them) but it's less common. Speech / ideas / words: it's really something else.

BrenBarn 4mo ago

I think the fact that these symbols are "not words" is not in itself super earth-shattering. What really matters is whether they have to be learned like words. You could learn the words "New Driver" as a single "symbol", or you could learn the beginner symbol. The advantage of a verbal label is you can understand it without learning it, if you know the system its embdded in (i.e., English); its disadvantage is it's a big more complex and harder to distinguish from other symbols in that system if you don't know the system. The advantage of the symbol is it's compact and can be learned without having to take on the full complexity of a linguistic writing system; the disadvantage is it has to be learned separately by everyone, even those who already know a much more powerful system (namely, writing). There are limits to both. Obviously it wouldn't be effective to have a bumper sticker that says "This driver has been driving for less than a year, so please use caution around them"; if you lean too much on the power of writing, you make it too hard to quickly identify the meaning. On the other hand, it's not easy to come up with a wide variety of sui generis symbols and still have them be visually distinguishable at a glance, so there's also a limit to how far that approach can get you. I do wonder whether there is some link between differential reliance on symbols of this sort and the use of alphabetic vs. nonalphabetic writing systems in different languages/cultures. Like, crudely speaking, is it the case that, because you already have to learn so many separate symbols to read Japanese, learning a few more for stuff like "elderly driver" isn't much of an extra load? Or is it the reverse, that because you have to learn so many symbols to read Japanese, they want to make these separate symbols for a small set of important meanings so people can learn them even if they don't know how to read? I'm not sure whether there's a real link here or not but it's interesting to think about.

dekdrop 4mo ago
The way "New Driver" hits brain is different than a symbol. Wordings develops much more rational impression of it.

fsadsadsdasdas 4mo ago

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khaki_pine 4mo ago

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guoqidu71 4mo ago

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kazinator 4mo ago

> For those who are hearing impaired, there’s the chōkaku shōgaisha hyōshiki, which is a butterfly-shaped mark in yellow and green. They used a pictogram to convey a kanji pun (chō refers to butterfly (蝶) as well as part of the word chõkaku (聴覚), sense of hearing). How dumb; at least the butterfly wings sort of look like ears a little bit.