3 ms·

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2026/feb/17/people-fired-punished-posting-charlie-kirk-death https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interacti

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2026/feb/17/people-fired-punished-posting-charlie-kirk-death https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2026/feb/... The age old joke; A Russian and an American are drinking at a bar The Russian says "I'm impressed by american propaganda. It's so subtle but effective." The american responds "What are you talking about, we don't do propaganda."

t-3 4mo ago
The version in my fortune file is better: A Russian and an American get on a plane in Moscow and get to talking. The Russian says he works for the Kremlin and he's on his way to go learn American propaganda techniques. "What American propaganda techniques?" asks the American. "Exactly," the Russian replies.
0xDEAFBEAD 4mo ago
I'm of the opinion that there is considerably more wailing about US government propaganda than actual US government propaganda. People who reference supposed US government propaganda rarely provide much in the way of concrete examples. Probably because there are legal restrictions on covert propaganda in the US: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/covert_propaganda https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/covert_propaganda To be clear, I'm happy to grant that: * The Pentagon won't provide jets for your war movie if your war movie portrays the US military in a bad light * The US engages in information operations in foreign countries, e.g. discouraging people in the Philippines from getting the Chinese COVID vaccine * Voice of America and similar US-government sponsored outlets are, in fact, sponsored by the US government But the notion that covert, English-language US government propaganda is ubiquitous and effective seems like a half-baked, un-falsifiable conspiracy theory with little supporting evidence. The internet is full of false or misleading claims about the US which go un-refuted. There's just way too much low-hanging fruit going un-picked here to believe that the USG is running massive English-language covert propaganda ops. A specific example of a false anti-American claim which is extremely widespread: Many Europeans believe that the US promised to protect Ukraine in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. This is false. We only promised to go to the UN Security Council, which we did. You can verify for yourself with a quick trip to the UN website, the memorandum is not very long: https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/P... If the American government possessed the propaganda wizardry that people ascribe to it, I expect the entire internet would be well-acquainted with the actual contents of this memorandum. Instead, you have randos like me trying to fight a tsunami of misinformation (likely Ukrainian-origin) related to this memorandum, using only a shovel.
- tumdum_ 4mo ago
  > Many Europeans believe ... > ... misinformation (likely Ukrainian-origin) ... Your post is also "a half-baked, un-falsifiable conspiracy theory with little supporting evidence" ;)
  - 0xDEAFBEAD 4mo ago
    Can you point me to any sort of Ukrainian law which would prohibit this type of info op? See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_of_Kyiv https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_of_Kyiv If the US was attacked the way Ukraine was attacked, and foreign intervention was key to our survival as a nation, I expect the Pentagon would deploy foreign info ops in that situation. That doesn't seem like a heavy lift to me. Occam's Razor: If something is a core/essential national interest, it's reasonable to expect a government to pull out all the stops. But governments are fairly ineffectual for the most part. Everyone saw how the USG mishandled e.g. COVID, mishandled the war with Iran, yet we expect the USG to be wizards at covert propaganda? It doesn't really track. I'm sure we are doing covert propaganda here and there, and we would ramp it up in an emergency. Anyways, if you want to point to specific content you suspect as USG propaganda, be my guest. My point is, the fact that people rarely do this seems evidence against widespread USG propaganda. "They don't point it out because the propaganda is too good" has a suspicious un-falsifiable quality to it.
    - throwaway27448 4mo ago
      > If the US was attacked the way Ukraine was attacked, and foreign intervention was key to our survival as a nation, I expect the Pentagon would deploy foreign info ops in that situation. That doesn't seem like a heavy lift to me. Yea, but Ukraine doesn't have any hope, so this is just an excuse to abuse people with zero upside. A recipe for corruption, looting, trafficking, weapons-dealing, and every other evil you can imagine. The constitutional clause of refusing to cede territory seems to have damned Ukraine to death. Even if the state of ukraine gets the territory back (which seems extremely unlikely), the state is doomed and the people are fucked. The only route to saving the nation was to cede territory. It sucks! It's wrong! I know; but what other path was there? regardless, I grieve for ukrainians and the people who live there.

t-3 4mo ago

The version in my fortune file is better: A Russian and an American get on a plane in Moscow and get to talking. The Russian says he works for the Kremlin and he's on his way to go learn American propaganda techniques. "What American propaganda techniques?" asks the American. "Exactly," the Russian replies.

0xDEAFBEAD 4mo ago

I'm of the opinion that there is considerably more wailing about US government propaganda than actual US government propaganda. People who reference supposed US government propaganda rarely provide much in the way of concrete examples. Probably because there are legal restrictions on covert propaganda in the US: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/covert_propaganda https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/covert_propaganda To be clear, I'm happy to grant that: * The Pentagon won't provide jets for your war movie if your war movie portrays the US military in a bad light * The US engages in information operations in foreign countries, e.g. discouraging people in the Philippines from getting the Chinese COVID vaccine * Voice of America and similar US-government sponsored outlets are, in fact, sponsored by the US government But the notion that covert, English-language US government propaganda is ubiquitous and effective seems like a half-baked, un-falsifiable conspiracy theory with little supporting evidence. The internet is full of false or misleading claims about the US which go un-refuted. There's just way too much low-hanging fruit going un-picked here to believe that the USG is running massive English-language covert propaganda ops. A specific example of a false anti-American claim which is extremely widespread: Many Europeans believe that the US promised to protect Ukraine in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. This is false. We only promised to go to the UN Security Council, which we did. You can verify for yourself with a quick trip to the UN website, the memorandum is not very long: https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/P... If the American government possessed the propaganda wizardry that people ascribe to it, I expect the entire internet would be well-acquainted with the actual contents of this memorandum. Instead, you have randos like me trying to fight a tsunami of misinformation (likely Ukrainian-origin) related to this memorandum, using only a shovel.

tumdum_ 4mo ago
> Many Europeans believe ... > ... misinformation (likely Ukrainian-origin) ... Your post is also "a half-baked, un-falsifiable conspiracy theory with little supporting evidence" ;)
- 0xDEAFBEAD 4mo ago
  Can you point me to any sort of Ukrainian law which would prohibit this type of info op? See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_of_Kyiv https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_of_Kyiv If the US was attacked the way Ukraine was attacked, and foreign intervention was key to our survival as a nation, I expect the Pentagon would deploy foreign info ops in that situation. That doesn't seem like a heavy lift to me. Occam's Razor: If something is a core/essential national interest, it's reasonable to expect a government to pull out all the stops. But governments are fairly ineffectual for the most part. Everyone saw how the USG mishandled e.g. COVID, mishandled the war with Iran, yet we expect the USG to be wizards at covert propaganda? It doesn't really track. I'm sure we are doing covert propaganda here and there, and we would ramp it up in an emergency. Anyways, if you want to point to specific content you suspect as USG propaganda, be my guest. My point is, the fact that people rarely do this seems evidence against widespread USG propaganda. "They don't point it out because the propaganda is too good" has a suspicious un-falsifiable quality to it.
  - throwaway27448 4mo ago
    > If the US was attacked the way Ukraine was attacked, and foreign intervention was key to our survival as a nation, I expect the Pentagon would deploy foreign info ops in that situation. That doesn't seem like a heavy lift to me. Yea, but Ukraine doesn't have any hope, so this is just an excuse to abuse people with zero upside. A recipe for corruption, looting, trafficking, weapons-dealing, and every other evil you can imagine. The constitutional clause of refusing to cede territory seems to have damned Ukraine to death. Even if the state of ukraine gets the territory back (which seems extremely unlikely), the state is doomed and the people are fucked. The only route to saving the nation was to cede territory. It sucks! It's wrong! I know; but what other path was there? regardless, I grieve for ukrainians and the people who live there.