3 ms·

Male scheduled for my 3rd epidural with steroids next week for on-going spinal stenosis, relieves pain for a few days, then back to pain. Will go for minimally

Male scheduled for my 3rd epidural with steroids next week for on-going spinal stenosis, relieves pain for a few days, then back to pain. Will go for minimally invasive micro laminectomy next, tired of treating symptoms and not the root cause. In that procedure surgeon will remove parts of lower vertebrae that is pinching the nerve bundle, nerves that progress down each leg. Success rates of better than 70%, it's a gamble. But willing to accept that rather than end up on addictive pain pills for life. 3 to 6 months recovery period before active lifestyle again, cannot risk disturbing the "fix". Giving up flip turns in lap swimming for quite a while. Supplemental covers the other 20% that medicare won't pay. Cash paying patients suffer $35k to $45 K for the procedure. Medicare pony's up only about $6,500, which the surgeon must accept, no extra cash changes hands. Supplemental covers the 20% that medicare will not pay.

brookside 4mo ago
(While it's clear you've done a ton of your own research for your own case.) Steve Kerr's advice after his own back surgery complications (albeit microdiscectomy, not a laminectomy) make me hesitant: "If you're listening out there, if you have a back problem, stay away from surgery... Rehab, rehab, rehab. Don't let anybody get in there."
- vitally3643 4mo ago
  This kind of comment is only marginally better than "well, I asked ChatGPT and...." You acknowledge the parent commenter knows more than you, but you decide it's somehow helpful to post contradictory information anyway sourced from someone else who also likely knows more than you.
  - matwood 4mo ago
    You don't have to listen to Steve Kerr. Every back doctor I have seen has said the same thing - surgery is the absolute last resort. I was fortunate that the epidurals worked for me, because it was the worst pain I have ever felt.
  - BrandoElFollito 4mo ago
    It's a good idea to ask a few AIs to get extra feedback. They may be wrong, your doctor may be wrong -- it is better to have a set of inputs and, to some point, check it against sources.
- ortusdux 4mo ago
  I helped a friend through a microdiscectomy, and it could not have gone better. Laparoscopic procedure, short recovery, lifechanging reduction in symptoms. The biggest hurdle was that their insurance required PT/rehab prior to authorization, even though all the experts involved agreed that it would not help.
- amluto 4mo ago
  The heuristic I found when researching this a few years ago was slightly more nuanced than your quote: back surgery is very likely the wrong solution for back pain. But if you have nerve problems caused by an issue with your spine, you probably want to address them before they become worse or irreversible, and back surgery may end up being the only option.
- IAmBroom 4mo ago
  [dead]
WarmWash 4mo ago
Honestly surgeons should be paid hourly like technicians. $800/hr or something like that. For a 2 hour procedure, $1600. Another $5k for facility and support staff. Looks like medicare is on point...
- notnaut 4mo ago
  Medicare for all fixes a lot of the problems with the US health system!
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
  - IAmBroom 4mo ago
    Would fix.
- Broken_Hippo 4mo ago
  I'm with you until I remember how expensive medical school plus internship is in the US. If doctors cannot pay back their student loans, it doesn't matter. The majority of folks in medical school have family that can support them now - not fixing education will make this even worse. Don't get me wrong. I support state-sponsored health care, especially after moving from the US to Norway over a decade ago. Just the peace of mind not having to worry so much about financial ruin because of health issues relieves so much stress - even stress related to just keeping yourself healthy is less (If I get hurt while jogging, it isn't a big issue, for example) But fixing the US system is bigger than just payments or insurance for all. Gotta fix things like education costs, the burden of unpaid internships, and things like that, too. I wish it weren't such a complicated problem and I wish there were the political desire to do such a thing.
  - tptacek 4mo ago
    Medical professionals in the US make multiples of what the same professionals make in Europe.
complianceowll 4mo ago
I understand everyone has different beliefs, and personally, I fall extremely short of what I should be, but I just took some time to pray for you and your procedure. I really hope the root cause is fully resolved.
- PeterHolzwarth 4mo ago
  [flagged]
  - protonbob 4mo ago
    Instead of saying words to one of the many tens of thousands of religious comments that would presumably annoy you, you could also help research on this topic instead of dumping on someone trying to be encouraging who already hedged that not everyone agrees with them.
  - economistbob 4mo ago
    The maker of the universe is not "one of many tens of thousands of gods". You proclaiming that your house has no architect because you read about ancient kids playing with block buildings changes nothing about the architect of your house. In computer terms, you conflate by ref with by val. An idol is by val. The maker of the universe is spoken of by ref, and not by val. Learn the difference.
    - IAmBroom 4mo ago
      By Ref can point to Null, so even as an atheist I find your argument interesting. Since the procedure acts as a subroutine (no return value), instead of a function... Again, interesting.
rythmshifter 4mo ago
My mother had this surgery and advised me to never have it done due to complications
thelastgallon 4mo ago
Go for surgery if you have neurological symptoms (loss of sensation, motor function, etc). If its pain, try your best to avoid surgery and find the right physiotherapist to help you be pain free. Spine surgery is risky and there is a risk of cascading failures. Don't completely trust any anesthesiologist (pain management) or neurosurgeon (for surgery) or chiropractor or random folks advice to do yoga/stretch. Spend quite a bit of time understanding the anatomy, read up on everything and maybe you will find the right set of exercises to help relieve pain. Troubleshooting disk/spine/nerve issues is very hard and most doctors don't have any time to investigate it deeply. They just look at MRI. There are lots of people with the same problems showing up on MRI, but they are pain free.
- wiz21c 4mo ago
  why "not" yoga/stretch ? I understand it may not be the right thing for every kind of pain but the way it is usually presented (your body needs movement) sounds convincing. (I don't practice yoga but taichi)
  - thelastgallon 4mo ago
    [dead]
- causality0 4mo ago
  I have to cautiously agree with you, with the caveat that many physios don't seem to know what they're doing either and the effectiveness of therapy can differ wildly based on which therapist and what regimen they use. Speaking as someone with a herniated disc that went through a discectomy which re-herniated immediately following surgery. Frankly I've only just now started getting relief by reducing the amount of weight pushing on the disc by way of treatment with semaglutide. Could've saved myself thousands of dollars in medical costs and rehab if I'd just done this a year ago.
  - thelastgallon 4mo ago
    > Speaking as someone with a herniated disc that went through a discectomy which re-herniated immediately following surgery. Sorry to hear about re-herniation. Thats what I am concerned about. I have multiple disc herniations, one with cauda equina. Multiple neurosurgeons have recommended surgery, but each is going to do a different procedure. I understood as they don't fully understand whats the root cause, everyone wants to do the procedure they are comfortable with and what they've been doing. One wants to cut the disc, another remove lamina, another fusion and something else. I decided its not worth taking the risk when they don't know what they are doing. There are so many reports of failed back syndrome, revision surgeries, cascading failures (because it increases pressure on adjacent discs). > with the caveat that many physios don't seem to know what they're doing either Yes, this is true of nearly any profession. We just have to spend significant time researching and troubleshooting with an engineering mindset.
nchmy 4mo ago
Friend, as many others are saying, you should try to avoid surgery as much as possible. Check out moveu.com - it's cheap (and free to start if you want for their drip marketing to send you a coupon code) and full of excellent information, videos, community etc for fixing yourself. I have no affiliation - just a happy user. Many people have been able to fix situations that the butchers (surgeons) assured them they could only treat with surgery. And there's many more who have had spinal surgery who say they're now stuck for life with a terrible situation.

brookside 4mo ago

(While it's clear you've done a ton of your own research for your own case.) Steve Kerr's advice after his own back surgery complications (albeit microdiscectomy, not a laminectomy) make me hesitant: "If you're listening out there, if you have a back problem, stay away from surgery... Rehab, rehab, rehab. Don't let anybody get in there."

vitally3643 4mo ago
This kind of comment is only marginally better than "well, I asked ChatGPT and...." You acknowledge the parent commenter knows more than you, but you decide it's somehow helpful to post contradictory information anyway sourced from someone else who also likely knows more than you.
- matwood 4mo ago
  You don't have to listen to Steve Kerr. Every back doctor I have seen has said the same thing - surgery is the absolute last resort. I was fortunate that the epidurals worked for me, because it was the worst pain I have ever felt.
- BrandoElFollito 4mo ago
  It's a good idea to ask a few AIs to get extra feedback. They may be wrong, your doctor may be wrong -- it is better to have a set of inputs and, to some point, check it against sources.
ortusdux 4mo ago
I helped a friend through a microdiscectomy, and it could not have gone better. Laparoscopic procedure, short recovery, lifechanging reduction in symptoms. The biggest hurdle was that their insurance required PT/rehab prior to authorization, even though all the experts involved agreed that it would not help.
amluto 4mo ago
The heuristic I found when researching this a few years ago was slightly more nuanced than your quote: back surgery is very likely the wrong solution for back pain. But if you have nerve problems caused by an issue with your spine, you probably want to address them before they become worse or irreversible, and back surgery may end up being the only option.
IAmBroom 4mo ago
[dead]

WarmWash 4mo ago

Honestly surgeons should be paid hourly like technicians. $800/hr or something like that. For a 2 hour procedure, $1600. Another $5k for facility and support staff. Looks like medicare is on point...

notnaut 4mo ago
Medicare for all fixes a lot of the problems with the US health system!
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- IAmBroom 4mo ago
  Would fix.
Broken_Hippo 4mo ago
I'm with you until I remember how expensive medical school plus internship is in the US. If doctors cannot pay back their student loans, it doesn't matter. The majority of folks in medical school have family that can support them now - not fixing education will make this even worse. Don't get me wrong. I support state-sponsored health care, especially after moving from the US to Norway over a decade ago. Just the peace of mind not having to worry so much about financial ruin because of health issues relieves so much stress - even stress related to just keeping yourself healthy is less (If I get hurt while jogging, it isn't a big issue, for example) But fixing the US system is bigger than just payments or insurance for all. Gotta fix things like education costs, the burden of unpaid internships, and things like that, too. I wish it weren't such a complicated problem and I wish there were the political desire to do such a thing.
- tptacek 4mo ago
  Medical professionals in the US make multiples of what the same professionals make in Europe.

complianceowll 4mo ago

I understand everyone has different beliefs, and personally, I fall extremely short of what I should be, but I just took some time to pray for you and your procedure. I really hope the root cause is fully resolved.

PeterHolzwarth 4mo ago
[flagged]
- protonbob 4mo ago
  Instead of saying words to one of the many tens of thousands of religious comments that would presumably annoy you, you could also help research on this topic instead of dumping on someone trying to be encouraging who already hedged that not everyone agrees with them.
- economistbob 4mo ago
  The maker of the universe is not "one of many tens of thousands of gods". You proclaiming that your house has no architect because you read about ancient kids playing with block buildings changes nothing about the architect of your house. In computer terms, you conflate by ref with by val. An idol is by val. The maker of the universe is spoken of by ref, and not by val. Learn the difference.
  - IAmBroom 4mo ago
    By Ref can point to Null, so even as an atheist I find your argument interesting. Since the procedure acts as a subroutine (no return value), instead of a function... Again, interesting.

rythmshifter 4mo ago

My mother had this surgery and advised me to never have it done due to complications

thelastgallon 4mo ago

Go for surgery if you have neurological symptoms (loss of sensation, motor function, etc). If its pain, try your best to avoid surgery and find the right physiotherapist to help you be pain free. Spine surgery is risky and there is a risk of cascading failures. Don't completely trust any anesthesiologist (pain management) or neurosurgeon (for surgery) or chiropractor or random folks advice to do yoga/stretch. Spend quite a bit of time understanding the anatomy, read up on everything and maybe you will find the right set of exercises to help relieve pain. Troubleshooting disk/spine/nerve issues is very hard and most doctors don't have any time to investigate it deeply. They just look at MRI. There are lots of people with the same problems showing up on MRI, but they are pain free.

wiz21c 4mo ago
why "not" yoga/stretch ? I understand it may not be the right thing for every kind of pain but the way it is usually presented (your body needs movement) sounds convincing. (I don't practice yoga but taichi)
- thelastgallon 4mo ago
  [dead]
causality0 4mo ago
I have to cautiously agree with you, with the caveat that many physios don't seem to know what they're doing either and the effectiveness of therapy can differ wildly based on which therapist and what regimen they use. Speaking as someone with a herniated disc that went through a discectomy which re-herniated immediately following surgery. Frankly I've only just now started getting relief by reducing the amount of weight pushing on the disc by way of treatment with semaglutide. Could've saved myself thousands of dollars in medical costs and rehab if I'd just done this a year ago.
- thelastgallon 4mo ago
  > Speaking as someone with a herniated disc that went through a discectomy which re-herniated immediately following surgery. Sorry to hear about re-herniation. Thats what I am concerned about. I have multiple disc herniations, one with cauda equina. Multiple neurosurgeons have recommended surgery, but each is going to do a different procedure. I understood as they don't fully understand whats the root cause, everyone wants to do the procedure they are comfortable with and what they've been doing. One wants to cut the disc, another remove lamina, another fusion and something else. I decided its not worth taking the risk when they don't know what they are doing. There are so many reports of failed back syndrome, revision surgeries, cascading failures (because it increases pressure on adjacent discs). > with the caveat that many physios don't seem to know what they're doing either Yes, this is true of nearly any profession. We just have to spend significant time researching and troubleshooting with an engineering mindset.

nchmy 4mo ago

Friend, as many others are saying, you should try to avoid surgery as much as possible. Check out moveu.com - it's cheap (and free to start if you want for their drip marketing to send you a coupon code) and full of excellent information, videos, community etc for fixing yourself. I have no affiliation - just a happy user. Many people have been able to fix situations that the butchers (surgeons) assured them they could only treat with surgery. And there's many more who have had spinal surgery who say they're now stuck for life with a terrible situation.