6 ms·

Spend a few minutes on the teacher subreddits: /r/teachers and /r/professors, specifically. AI has been a disaster for student outcomes and educator performance

by nunez 4mo ago

Spend a few minutes on the teacher subreddits: /r/teachers and /r/professors, specifically. AI has been a disaster for student outcomes and educator performance, more or less across the board. It should be banned in education, but there's no way to enforce that without increasing educator workload substantially (eliminating homework and re-working lesson plans around that; moving tests and projects back into the classroom; etc.)

ares623 4mo ago
[flagged]
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4mo ago
  [flagged]
  - QuadmasterXLII 4mo ago
    He’s either an anthropic employee or a joker, just based on basic timeline math
  - ares623 4mo ago
    Yes, I hoped it would've come across as so without the /s. Just goes to show where our fellow engineers are at. "Memory safety is humanity's last problem. Once we solve that then all of life's problems will naturally follow."
ori_b 4mo ago
Banning it in classrooms isn't going to fix things, not when adults are broadcasting to students that (in the actual words of Sam Altman) "intelligence will be too cheap to meter", that (in the words of Darius Amodei) half of white collar jobs will be gone by the time these students graduate school, and so on. If intelligence is too cheap to meter, mental labor is a losing proposition. We've also spent decades emphasizing STEM and de-emphasizing arts and culture. In a world like that, why would anyone value an education? So, it's no surprise they're going to opt out of a system that's investing trillions to make education useless. Even if the people building this world are wrong -- not all students are equipped to call some of the wealthiest people in the world complete bullshitters. Not all adults are ready to call them out as bullshitters, for that matter.
- kristianp 4mo ago
  "intelligence will be too cheap to meter" has been shown to be wrong. They've started metering it. What makes you think school students are being told that? I've heard that they are told everyone will be using AI to help them write.
  - dragonwriter 4mo ago
    > "intelligence will be too cheap to meter" has been shown to be wrong. They've started metering it. They’ve always been metering AI access (whether this is meaningfully intelligence is a separate question), but that doesn’t prove that there isn’t some time in the future where it won’t be worth metering, only that if there will be, it isn’t here yet. OTOH, it is still worth noting that from a a consumer-of-the-service perspective, the trend is for more metering, not less (even if that is due at least in part to the rollback off unsustainable subsidies and not to the fundamnetal shifting what is sustainable farther from unmetered access.)
  - ori_b 4mo ago
    Do you think they're too illiterate to read what industry leaders are saying? I assure you they're not.
    - ryan_n 4mo ago
      Hm maybe I was sheltered or something but I was definitely not reading what industry leaders were saying when I was under 13. I don't think I really even knew who industry leaders were at that time...
      - ori_b 4mo ago
        I was definitely reading articles online by the age of 13. This is not exactly a small part of the discourse. I'd expect, at this point, it's rather hard to avoid hearing about AI and its impact.
- insane_dreamer 4mo ago
dools 4mo ago
Computers generally are stupid for schools. There should be a computer room and computer classes, but all other learning should happen offline. Computers are far too distracting.
- tacomagick 4mo ago
  Half of my classmates in university failed Compsci, they could not use a computer but they somehow could install Instagram, do basic video edits there and doomscroll. It is NOT conputers! Phones should be the main target.
  - Squarex 4mo ago
    But computer usage proficiency is not computer science either. These skills should be teached in a separate class. Agree with the gen z lack of computer skills though.
0xpgm 4mo ago
> without increasing educator workload substantially Isn't this a good thing, employing more educators, building more schools? Any sane society will always invest more into its future well being and incentivize investments into education.
- jasongill 4mo ago
  Not sure what country you live in, but I don't think that the US falls under your definition of a "sane society"
  - kakacik 4mo ago
    Any modern country invest heavily in its future. There is no easier marker for that than education - literally laying groundwork for future of everybody. Teachers should be paid and respected as much as doctors are, all levels, all age. But they should be skilled up too, every single one of them needs to be very good ad child psychology, no exception there even effin' gym teacher. If would arrange itself easily if they would be having doctor's salaries. They should be themselves role models, its #2 after parents usually. US is not a modern country also in this aspect, its everybody for themselves, fuck the poor they didn't try hard enough and thats it. Wealth-based class society at best. Somebody has to clean pools and houses of rich folks anyway, it ain't gonna be their work colleagues.
- tgv 4mo ago
  That used to be the case, but it no longer is. Not only are budgets limited, only a few choose for a career in education, leaving schools already understaffed. Expansion is not feasible in the short run.
  - abyssin 4mo ago
    I would happily make a career switch if I had the feeling my work in a school would be useful and doable. Where I live, I tried it and it was neither of the two. After having experienced efficient companies, schools feel mind-boggingly stupid. And the policy of never failing students and reluctantly enforcing rules generates an serious waste of human energy.
etherealG 4mo ago
I think like every field this revolution reveals the cracks, good teachers use AI to enhance teaching material and experience for students while weak teachers complaint they can't keep up with student's access to Ai that out-paces them. AI forces us all in every field to be better at what we do, and coupled with the previous innovation of the internet only reveals the drastic variance in quality of skills. Teaching is no different. Good teachers use AI. Bad teachers complain AI is ruining their job, but I posit it's only revealing they were never able to excel beyond their students in the first place. A savant exceeds their teacher fast. Even faster with AI.

by nunez 4mo ago

ares623 4mo ago

[flagged]

2OEH8eoCRo0 4mo ago
[flagged]
- QuadmasterXLII 4mo ago
  He’s either an anthropic employee or a joker, just based on basic timeline math
- ares623 4mo ago
  Yes, I hoped it would've come across as so without the /s. Just goes to show where our fellow engineers are at. "Memory safety is humanity's last problem. Once we solve that then all of life's problems will naturally follow."

ori_b 4mo ago

Banning it in classrooms isn't going to fix things, not when adults are broadcasting to students that (in the actual words of Sam Altman) "intelligence will be too cheap to meter", that (in the words of Darius Amodei) half of white collar jobs will be gone by the time these students graduate school, and so on. If intelligence is too cheap to meter, mental labor is a losing proposition. We've also spent decades emphasizing STEM and de-emphasizing arts and culture. In a world like that, why would anyone value an education? So, it's no surprise they're going to opt out of a system that's investing trillions to make education useless. Even if the people building this world are wrong -- not all students are equipped to call some of the wealthiest people in the world complete bullshitters. Not all adults are ready to call them out as bullshitters, for that matter.

kristianp 4mo ago
"intelligence will be too cheap to meter" has been shown to be wrong. They've started metering it. What makes you think school students are being told that? I've heard that they are told everyone will be using AI to help them write.
- dragonwriter 4mo ago
  > "intelligence will be too cheap to meter" has been shown to be wrong. They've started metering it. They’ve always been metering AI access (whether this is meaningfully intelligence is a separate question), but that doesn’t prove that there isn’t some time in the future where it won’t be worth metering, only that if there will be, it isn’t here yet. OTOH, it is still worth noting that from a a consumer-of-the-service perspective, the trend is for more metering, not less (even if that is due at least in part to the rollback off unsustainable subsidies and not to the fundamnetal shifting what is sustainable farther from unmetered access.)
- ori_b 4mo ago
  Do you think they're too illiterate to read what industry leaders are saying? I assure you they're not.
  - ryan_n 4mo ago
    Hm maybe I was sheltered or something but I was definitely not reading what industry leaders were saying when I was under 13. I don't think I really even knew who industry leaders were at that time...
    - ori_b 4mo ago
      I was definitely reading articles online by the age of 13. This is not exactly a small part of the discourse. I'd expect, at this point, it's rather hard to avoid hearing about AI and its impact.
insane_dreamer 4mo ago

dools 4mo ago

Computers generally are stupid for schools. There should be a computer room and computer classes, but all other learning should happen offline. Computers are far too distracting.

tacomagick 4mo ago
Half of my classmates in university failed Compsci, they could not use a computer but they somehow could install Instagram, do basic video edits there and doomscroll. It is NOT conputers! Phones should be the main target.
- Squarex 4mo ago
  But computer usage proficiency is not computer science either. These skills should be teached in a separate class. Agree with the gen z lack of computer skills though.

0xpgm 4mo ago

> without increasing educator workload substantially Isn't this a good thing, employing more educators, building more schools? Any sane society will always invest more into its future well being and incentivize investments into education.

jasongill 4mo ago
Not sure what country you live in, but I don't think that the US falls under your definition of a "sane society"
- kakacik 4mo ago
  Any modern country invest heavily in its future. There is no easier marker for that than education - literally laying groundwork for future of everybody. Teachers should be paid and respected as much as doctors are, all levels, all age. But they should be skilled up too, every single one of them needs to be very good ad child psychology, no exception there even effin' gym teacher. If would arrange itself easily if they would be having doctor's salaries. They should be themselves role models, its #2 after parents usually. US is not a modern country also in this aspect, its everybody for themselves, fuck the poor they didn't try hard enough and thats it. Wealth-based class society at best. Somebody has to clean pools and houses of rich folks anyway, it ain't gonna be their work colleagues.
tgv 4mo ago
That used to be the case, but it no longer is. Not only are budgets limited, only a few choose for a career in education, leaving schools already understaffed. Expansion is not feasible in the short run.
- abyssin 4mo ago
  I would happily make a career switch if I had the feeling my work in a school would be useful and doable. Where I live, I tried it and it was neither of the two. After having experienced efficient companies, schools feel mind-boggingly stupid. And the policy of never failing students and reluctantly enforcing rules generates an serious waste of human energy.

etherealG 4mo ago

I think like every field this revolution reveals the cracks, good teachers use AI to enhance teaching material and experience for students while weak teachers complaint they can't keep up with student's access to Ai that out-paces them. AI forces us all in every field to be better at what we do, and coupled with the previous innovation of the internet only reveals the drastic variance in quality of skills. Teaching is no different. Good teachers use AI. Bad teachers complain AI is ruining their job, but I posit it's only revealing they were never able to excel beyond their students in the first place. A savant exceeds their teacher fast. Even faster with AI.