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Kids can read, write, and comprehend text at 8. I don’t even like LLMs and I’m against this mess. Imagine having regulations rolled out when we were 8 saying “y

Kids can read, write, and comprehend text at 8. I don’t even like LLMs and I’m against this mess. Imagine having regulations rolled out when we were 8 saying “you can’t use the internet!” And I was running my own websites by 10 years old. Let’s stop pretending this tech is as interesting as we wish it was. If we want to ban models in school, ban laptops/chromebooks with internet. I don’t see the difference at this point.

cryo32 4mo ago
At eight they have limited comprehension of the world around them and limited language skills. They need a lot longer to develop those in tandem. And also you may be above average there.
- stackghost 4mo ago
  >At eight they have limited comprehension of the world around them and limited language skills. I have two kids and can confidently say eight year olds generally have good language skills, are capable of expressing themselves just fine, and have good comprehension of the parts of the world that they've been exposed to.
  - cryo32 4mo ago
    So they can conduct a nuanced debate then? Mine couldn’t until they were much older. And I have more so perhaps that’s more statistically valid?
    - stackghost 4mo ago
      >So they can conduct a nuanced debate then? Oh, can I move the goalposts too?
      - cryo32 4mo ago
        Nope. Language is more complicated than you think it is.
      - boomlinde 4mo ago
        The original claim was that "at eight they have limited comprehension of the world around them and limited language skills" and that they can't conduct debate is a relevant example of that.
        cryo32 4mo ago
        By sheer irony, it would also suggest that the original poster had limited language comprehension skills and wasn't capable of evaluating an eight year old.
  - orwin 4mo ago
    Can they identify easy stylistic device, like an extended metaphor or an anaphora? Because until they do, I will consider their comprehension skills limited.
    - mh- 4mo ago
      I guess you can consider mine limited too.
pertymcpert 4mo ago
Yes, there's also a push to ban all computers in classrooms because data is showing that it's of no benefit and if anything is a negative effect on education.
- throwaway2037 4mo ago
  There is also a push to ban certain childhood vaccines amoungst crazy people in the US. What is being said here, really? Example: what if Internet access was removed, but the computer remained? It would still be very useful.
  - pertymcpert 4mo ago
    Yeah but one is supported by science and the other isn't. It's nothing to do with internet access. The fact is that computers/ipads in classrooms are negative regardless of whether they're connected to the internet.
simonw 4mo ago
> Kids can read, write, and comprehend text at 8 A sizable portion of the US adult population effectively can't read, write and comprehend text. https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/2023/national_results.asp https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/2023/national_results.asp for 2023: > Between 2017 and 2023, there were increases in the percentages of adults performing at the lowest proficiency level (Level 1 or below) in both literacy and numeracy: in literacy this percentage increased from 19 to 28 percent and in numeracy from 29 to 34 percent. The literacy proficiency levels section on https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/measure.asp https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/measure.asp describes what Level 1 means: > Adults at level 1 are able to locate information on a text page, find a relevant link from a website, and identify relevant text among multiple options when the relevant information is explicitly cued. They can understand the meaning of short texts, as well as the organization of lists or multiple sections within a single page. 28% of US adults are just at or below that level.
- rootusrootus 4mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Planktonne 4mo ago
    The US is a context that is generally relevant to HN, and for which we have lots of data. Literacy is a worldwide problem.
    - hparadiz 4mo ago
      The United States has always been at the forefront of pushing higher literacy both internally and world wide. We have just had multiple crazy tech breakthroughs, a world wide pandemic, and various other uncontrolled variables like SAT tests no longer being required at some institutions. It's impossible to draw any conclusions with so many moving pieces but ultimately I'm sure we'll figure it out. A slight regression isn't the end of the world.
      - Planktonne 4mo ago
beejiu 4mo ago
When I was 8, I could use the Internet at school but every website was whitelisted.
zemvpferreira 4mo ago
From what I can tell the average school at best can aspire to teach kids how to work and how to socialize. That's it. I'd personally be very happy with computers mostly going away from school too. Most actual learning and exploring will hopefully happen at home.
- bebe83939 4mo ago
  Many kids in Norwegian schools do not speak Norwegian or English. Kids need "computers" just to translate what other kid is saying.
  - stackghost 4mo ago
    Do you have a source for this?
  - throwaway2037 4mo ago
    This is true for many children of non-English speaking immigrant parents anywhere in the developed world. Schools will use language immersion and extra help to get these kids up to speed very quickly. Computers are sometimes used for educational games and activities, but these can be done just as well without. Can I guess that you are (native/ethnic) Norwegian and upset by the recent waves of immigration to Norway? Your comment is very specific, plus you used a new throwaway account.
    - varjag 4mo ago
      It's very unlikely he's Norwegian because he has no clue how education works here.
  - galkk 4mo ago
    No, they don’t. Especially in elementary school. My living example - my kiddo didn’t speak a word in English until 4.5 years, when she went into preschool. Russian speaking home and daycare do that for you. After 9 months in American preschool, she completely switched to English language as her primary. 2 years later, and she speaks Russian with strong accent.
xboxnolifes 4mo ago
If you think an 8 year old can comprehend text at the same level of a 13 year old (or an 18 year old for that matter), I don't know what to tell you. Reading comprehension doesn't peak at 8.
ilovecake1984 4mo ago
8 years olds shouldn’t be using the internet.
slashdev 4mo ago
They can use it at home. Using it school is likely undermining their learning.
assimpleaspossi 4mo ago
I didn't have the internet when I was in school. Neither did my kids till they got to college. We've all gone pretty far. For myself, that's in the technology world as a software engineer.
sumeno 4mo ago
> If we want to ban models in school, ban laptops/chromebooks with internet. Now we're talkin' I'm all for it, let's teach kids the fundamentals of the world without relying on computers before we introduce them
yard2010 4mo ago
AI is not the internet, it's a stochastic parrot that lays golden eggs for its shareholders.

cryo32 4mo ago

At eight they have limited comprehension of the world around them and limited language skills. They need a lot longer to develop those in tandem. And also you may be above average there.

stackghost 4mo ago
>At eight they have limited comprehension of the world around them and limited language skills. I have two kids and can confidently say eight year olds generally have good language skills, are capable of expressing themselves just fine, and have good comprehension of the parts of the world that they've been exposed to.
- cryo32 4mo ago
  So they can conduct a nuanced debate then? Mine couldn’t until they were much older. And I have more so perhaps that’s more statistically valid?
  - stackghost 4mo ago
    >So they can conduct a nuanced debate then? Oh, can I move the goalposts too?
    - cryo32 4mo ago
      Nope. Language is more complicated than you think it is.
    - boomlinde 4mo ago
      The original claim was that "at eight they have limited comprehension of the world around them and limited language skills" and that they can't conduct debate is a relevant example of that.
      - cryo32 4mo ago
        By sheer irony, it would also suggest that the original poster had limited language comprehension skills and wasn't capable of evaluating an eight year old.
- orwin 4mo ago
  Can they identify easy stylistic device, like an extended metaphor or an anaphora? Because until they do, I will consider their comprehension skills limited.
  - mh- 4mo ago
    I guess you can consider mine limited too.

pertymcpert 4mo ago

Yes, there's also a push to ban all computers in classrooms because data is showing that it's of no benefit and if anything is a negative effect on education.

throwaway2037 4mo ago
There is also a push to ban certain childhood vaccines amoungst crazy people in the US. What is being said here, really? Example: what if Internet access was removed, but the computer remained? It would still be very useful.
- pertymcpert 4mo ago
  Yeah but one is supported by science and the other isn't. It's nothing to do with internet access. The fact is that computers/ipads in classrooms are negative regardless of whether they're connected to the internet.

simonw 4mo ago

> Kids can read, write, and comprehend text at 8 A sizable portion of the US adult population effectively can't read, write and comprehend text. https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/2023/national_results.asp https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/2023/national_results.asp for 2023: > Between 2017 and 2023, there were increases in the percentages of adults performing at the lowest proficiency level (Level 1 or below) in both literacy and numeracy: in literacy this percentage increased from 19 to 28 percent and in numeracy from 29 to 34 percent. The literacy proficiency levels section on https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/measure.asp https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/measure.asp describes what Level 1 means: > Adults at level 1 are able to locate information on a text page, find a relevant link from a website, and identify relevant text among multiple options when the relevant information is explicitly cued. They can understand the meaning of short texts, as well as the organization of lists or multiple sections within a single page. 28% of US adults are just at or below that level.

rootusrootus 4mo ago
[flagged]
- Planktonne 4mo ago
  The US is a context that is generally relevant to HN, and for which we have lots of data. Literacy is a worldwide problem.
  - hparadiz 4mo ago
    The United States has always been at the forefront of pushing higher literacy both internally and world wide. We have just had multiple crazy tech breakthroughs, a world wide pandemic, and various other uncontrolled variables like SAT tests no longer being required at some institutions. It's impossible to draw any conclusions with so many moving pieces but ultimately I'm sure we'll figure it out. A slight regression isn't the end of the world.
    - Planktonne 4mo ago

beejiu 4mo ago

When I was 8, I could use the Internet at school but every website was whitelisted.

zemvpferreira 4mo ago

From what I can tell the average school at best can aspire to teach kids how to work and how to socialize. That's it. I'd personally be very happy with computers mostly going away from school too. Most actual learning and exploring will hopefully happen at home.

bebe83939 4mo ago
Many kids in Norwegian schools do not speak Norwegian or English. Kids need "computers" just to translate what other kid is saying.
- stackghost 4mo ago
  Do you have a source for this?
- throwaway2037 4mo ago
  This is true for many children of non-English speaking immigrant parents anywhere in the developed world. Schools will use language immersion and extra help to get these kids up to speed very quickly. Computers are sometimes used for educational games and activities, but these can be done just as well without. Can I guess that you are (native/ethnic) Norwegian and upset by the recent waves of immigration to Norway? Your comment is very specific, plus you used a new throwaway account.
  - varjag 4mo ago
    It's very unlikely he's Norwegian because he has no clue how education works here.
- galkk 4mo ago
  No, they don’t. Especially in elementary school. My living example - my kiddo didn’t speak a word in English until 4.5 years, when she went into preschool. Russian speaking home and daycare do that for you. After 9 months in American preschool, she completely switched to English language as her primary. 2 years later, and she speaks Russian with strong accent.

xboxnolifes 4mo ago

If you think an 8 year old can comprehend text at the same level of a 13 year old (or an 18 year old for that matter), I don't know what to tell you. Reading comprehension doesn't peak at 8.

ilovecake1984 4mo ago

8 years olds shouldn’t be using the internet.

slashdev 4mo ago

They can use it at home. Using it school is likely undermining their learning.

assimpleaspossi 4mo ago

I didn't have the internet when I was in school. Neither did my kids till they got to college. We've all gone pretty far. For myself, that's in the technology world as a software engineer.

sumeno 4mo ago

> If we want to ban models in school, ban laptops/chromebooks with internet. Now we're talkin' I'm all for it, let's teach kids the fundamentals of the world without relying on computers before we introduce them

yard2010 4mo ago

AI is not the internet, it's a stochastic parrot that lays golden eggs for its shareholders.