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That's kind of the point the article is making though, isn't it? You're making a choice to insulate yourself from your surroundings. That choice has effects on

That's kind of the point the article is making though, isn't it? You're making a choice to insulate yourself from your surroundings. That choice has effects on both you and your environment. You see it as a simple salve, but the poor souls you're choosing to ignore see it as a just another bourgeoisie wall. I used to live in a prison. Headphones were a huge fighting issue. People who couldn't afford them would borrow, rent, or steal them. I never saw the point. Humans are a part of nature. I can sleep, eat, shower, and meditate just as well in the middle of a deadly riot (I was once asked by an officer to leave the dining area as they'd maced several people and everyone else had fled while I sat there calmly eating my institutional cheesy cardboard because I was more hungry than bothered by the mace) as I can in a forest or a dead silent bed room. Embracing or shunning the society you live in is a choice. Choosing either has consequences. My choice means that I am often driven to action to contribute to systemic solutions to the pain I see in life. It isn't easy, but I don't think I could live with sticking my fingers in my ears and pretending it isn't happening.

deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
wafflemaker 4mo ago
In a way you're right, but what you can do comes from a significantly high spiritual development level. For an average Joe it's quite abstract and maybe even unattainable in this life. OTOH, there are people who get sensory overstimulated more easily. Add to that a foreign place, lot of people and chaos around, and even a neurotypical individual can feel anxious. Putting on headphones and playing Chopin is much more effective than breathing and telling yourself "everythings gonna be ok" in a loop. At least in my experience.
- overfeed 4mo ago
  I believe we wouldn't have a tenth of the chaos we are currently experiencing if people talked to their neighbors and fellow commuters more.
  - wvenable 4mo ago
    With or without headphones, people aren't just chatting around on the subway all the time. I love my headphones and I also chat with my neighbours. This is just the same argument that has been repeated since the dawn of the walkman. 50 years ago when people weren't looking at their iPhones on the bus, they were reading the newspaper or a book. Not a lot has changed.
  - gosub100 4mo ago
    What chaos are you referring to? What do you mean by "chaos"?
Barbing 4mo ago
Wow, was it a computer fraud abuse act thing, I mean claimed to be? Obviously nothing violent! Thanks for sharing.
- IncandescentGas 4mo ago
  Few who paid their debt to society and moved on are excited about random strangers wanting to do their own petty little performative mock show trials to sit in smug judgement over them. Please stop.
  - petsfed 4mo ago
    Almost as if there's a limit to how many demands strangers can reasonably place on a person before we as a society agree that the person should put up boundaries (like, say, putting on headphones and outright ignoring the demands) and even go out of our way to encourage strangers to respect those boundaries. I'm not calling you out, IncandescentGas, you're right and you're doing a good thing. I'm just saying its ironic that you jump to the defense of somebody who has made it clear that they don't believe others deserve the same courtesy you are providing them.
    - goodmythical 4mo ago
      No defence needed in my case. I made a mistake and paid my price. I feel bad for people who are so bored and miserable in their own lives that they feel the need to elevate themselves by trying to diminish me. It's too bad that they don't live more fulfilling lives that don't require them to feel the need to attempt to insult people.
  - Barbing 4mo ago
    Smug? Show trial? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48609479 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48609479
- goodmythical 4mo ago
  I plead guilty to financial fraud, thanks for the interest! Curious how you project certain assumptions, though. Makes one curious about your own activities.
browningstreet 4mo ago
A buffer isn’t necessarily isolation or insulation.
- sillyfluke 4mo ago
  You will have to explain. Headphones in work or street environments definitely function to minimize interactions with surrounding humans. I literally think twice before engaging with people wearing headphones and am rather oblivious to people around me when I'm wearing them unless someone is using physical gestures to get my attention. If general public habits shift to the extent that the majority of people with headphones end up only using them for noise cancelling then my behavior would also shift accordingly.
cassepipe 4mo ago
> That's kind of the point the article is making though, isn't it? I think the article pays lip service to this in a paragraph ("social crutch") but otherwise falls into the trap of "societal" pieces (Soft "Why can't we talk to each other anymore ? What is wrong with our cvilisation?") In my opinion make it a safe enjoyable non-crowded ride and you'll get plenty of interactions. > just another bourgeoisie wall. You are not wrong in a way. The base of a lot of the kind of interaction the author of the piece is thinking about is a relatively equal social standing, otherwise there's too much at stake, on both sides. For example, I, a lower middle class man, would have little patience for someone telling me about how much fun they are having taking helicopter rides in the summer and I don't think they'd enjoy my rant about how landlords are evil. Of course I think there's a moral duty to lower yourself from your social standing to care for people who have it rougher than you but it's generally not exactly pleasant like a conversation with someone like-minded could be
dmitrygr 4mo ago
Counter: my attention must be earned, I do not owe it to randoms.
wvenable 4mo ago
> I can sleep, eat, shower, and meditate just as well in the middle of a deadly riot ... as I can in a forest or a dead silent bed room. You should realize that there are people who can't do that.
- exmadscientist 4mo ago
  Being able to do it in the middle of a riot is, absolutely, a hard-earned skill. But it is, like so many of these things, a skill. You have to practice it. I think that putting earbuds in and checking out of the world around you is a really awful thing to do as your default in life. As a "sometimes" thing it's fine, even healthy. There's a lot of talk of public transit in this thread. If people do it during riding transit, and not really at other times, I'm fine with that. But so many people have their earbuds in before they leave their front door, every day, every week, and they don't come back out. And I think that's really, really unhealthy, for them and for the rest of us.
  - wvenable 4mo ago
    My son, for example, has sensory issues and cannot tune out anything. The "you have to practice it" is like telling a paraplegic that if they just exercise more they'd be able to walk. People are different and have different needs. > And I think that's really, really unhealthy, for them and for the rest of us. Or maybe it's not. Maybe the rest of the world is unhealthy and this is a way to reclaim some personal healthiness.
    - MarkusQ 4mo ago
      "When we argue for our limitations, we get to keep them." -- Evelyn Waugh Paraplegics don't have the use of their limbs. Acting as if "sensory issues" are in the same category is grossly insensitive.
      - wvenable 4mo ago
        Suggesting you can just practice your way out of biological sensory issues is also grossly insensitive; that's why I made that comparison. Stating that using this kind of technology is "unhealthy" both for a person and society is a pretty bold claim that I think is pretty ridiculous.
tipperjones 4mo ago
People are really good at finding virtue within themselves
talon8635 4mo ago
You’re chastising the person above you for blocking out the world with headphones while bragging that you have honed skills over time to, due to desire and necessity, block out the world in your own head. In any case, it doesn’t strike me as unreasonable to want to be unbothered, especially in particularly bothersome circumstances. You don’t owe anyone your attention, and the assumption that you do can and is weaponized by everyone from Zuckerberg to the fentanyl addict aggressively demanding your money.
- goodmythical 4mo ago
  I'm fairly mistaken you've mistaken me on two counts. I've chastised no one. I've merely observed aloud that the choices we all make have effects on both ourselves and others. I also don't do any such thing as block the world out in my own head...not really sure where you could have gotten that except perhaps from a misunderstanding of meditation. The meditation that I and many practice is about peaceful abiding or compassionate awareness. It's about changing our own judgement of reality as it is, not escaping from it.
  - talon8635 4mo ago
    Our comments speak for themselves, readers can decide for themselves
bitexploder 4mo ago
I worked in Manhattan often in the 00s and early 10s. Have people forgotten what big city life was like before? Commuters did not randomly strike up conversations. It was an unspoken code you left each other alone. Especially in rush hour commutes. Everyone is waking up or tired after a day of work. It is more about having some personal space in a crowded environment for many. Not everyone processes or experiences that the same way either.
- gosub100 4mo ago
  > It was an unspoken code you left each other alone. Adding to this, you never know in advance when your interlocutor's stop will come up. So subconsciously you know it's a bad idea to strike up a conversation. Plus it's a captive audience so the majority of people sense that it's wrong to "force" someone to talk. And the trains are noisy. It's difficult and unnatural to talk above the ambient noise.
antisthenes 4mo ago
> I can sleep, eat, shower, and meditate just as well in the middle of a deadly riot Good for you. I can't. Some people need quiet conditions to focus or sleep and if they don't it feels like active torture.
SubmarineClub 4mo ago
> poor souls you're choosing to ignore And why exactly should I give a fuck about people who are trying to bother and inconvenience me?
- calf 4mo ago
  The exact answer to that requires using the cognitive capacity of empathy.
  - Lio 4mo ago
    Well perhaps you could spell it out for those of us who lack it then.

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

wafflemaker 4mo ago

In a way you're right, but what you can do comes from a significantly high spiritual development level. For an average Joe it's quite abstract and maybe even unattainable in this life. OTOH, there are people who get sensory overstimulated more easily. Add to that a foreign place, lot of people and chaos around, and even a neurotypical individual can feel anxious. Putting on headphones and playing Chopin is much more effective than breathing and telling yourself "everythings gonna be ok" in a loop. At least in my experience.

overfeed 4mo ago
I believe we wouldn't have a tenth of the chaos we are currently experiencing if people talked to their neighbors and fellow commuters more.
- wvenable 4mo ago
  With or without headphones, people aren't just chatting around on the subway all the time. I love my headphones and I also chat with my neighbours. This is just the same argument that has been repeated since the dawn of the walkman. 50 years ago when people weren't looking at their iPhones on the bus, they were reading the newspaper or a book. Not a lot has changed.
- gosub100 4mo ago
  What chaos are you referring to? What do you mean by "chaos"?

Barbing 4mo ago

Wow, was it a computer fraud abuse act thing, I mean claimed to be? Obviously nothing violent! Thanks for sharing.

IncandescentGas 4mo ago
Few who paid their debt to society and moved on are excited about random strangers wanting to do their own petty little performative mock show trials to sit in smug judgement over them. Please stop.
- petsfed 4mo ago
  Almost as if there's a limit to how many demands strangers can reasonably place on a person before we as a society agree that the person should put up boundaries (like, say, putting on headphones and outright ignoring the demands) and even go out of our way to encourage strangers to respect those boundaries. I'm not calling you out, IncandescentGas, you're right and you're doing a good thing. I'm just saying its ironic that you jump to the defense of somebody who has made it clear that they don't believe others deserve the same courtesy you are providing them.
  - goodmythical 4mo ago
    No defence needed in my case. I made a mistake and paid my price. I feel bad for people who are so bored and miserable in their own lives that they feel the need to elevate themselves by trying to diminish me. It's too bad that they don't live more fulfilling lives that don't require them to feel the need to attempt to insult people.
- Barbing 4mo ago
  Smug? Show trial? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48609479 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48609479
goodmythical 4mo ago
I plead guilty to financial fraud, thanks for the interest! Curious how you project certain assumptions, though. Makes one curious about your own activities.

browningstreet 4mo ago

A buffer isn’t necessarily isolation or insulation.

sillyfluke 4mo ago
You will have to explain. Headphones in work or street environments definitely function to minimize interactions with surrounding humans. I literally think twice before engaging with people wearing headphones and am rather oblivious to people around me when I'm wearing them unless someone is using physical gestures to get my attention. If general public habits shift to the extent that the majority of people with headphones end up only using them for noise cancelling then my behavior would also shift accordingly.

cassepipe 4mo ago

> That's kind of the point the article is making though, isn't it? I think the article pays lip service to this in a paragraph ("social crutch") but otherwise falls into the trap of "societal" pieces (Soft "Why can't we talk to each other anymore ? What is wrong with our cvilisation?") In my opinion make it a safe enjoyable non-crowded ride and you'll get plenty of interactions. > just another bourgeoisie wall. You are not wrong in a way. The base of a lot of the kind of interaction the author of the piece is thinking about is a relatively equal social standing, otherwise there's too much at stake, on both sides. For example, I, a lower middle class man, would have little patience for someone telling me about how much fun they are having taking helicopter rides in the summer and I don't think they'd enjoy my rant about how landlords are evil. Of course I think there's a moral duty to lower yourself from your social standing to care for people who have it rougher than you but it's generally not exactly pleasant like a conversation with someone like-minded could be

dmitrygr 4mo ago

Counter: my attention must be earned, I do not owe it to randoms.

wvenable 4mo ago

> I can sleep, eat, shower, and meditate just as well in the middle of a deadly riot ... as I can in a forest or a dead silent bed room. You should realize that there are people who can't do that.

exmadscientist 4mo ago
Being able to do it in the middle of a riot is, absolutely, a hard-earned skill. But it is, like so many of these things, a skill. You have to practice it. I think that putting earbuds in and checking out of the world around you is a really awful thing to do as your default in life. As a "sometimes" thing it's fine, even healthy. There's a lot of talk of public transit in this thread. If people do it during riding transit, and not really at other times, I'm fine with that. But so many people have their earbuds in before they leave their front door, every day, every week, and they don't come back out. And I think that's really, really unhealthy, for them and for the rest of us.
- wvenable 4mo ago
  My son, for example, has sensory issues and cannot tune out anything. The "you have to practice it" is like telling a paraplegic that if they just exercise more they'd be able to walk. People are different and have different needs. > And I think that's really, really unhealthy, for them and for the rest of us. Or maybe it's not. Maybe the rest of the world is unhealthy and this is a way to reclaim some personal healthiness.
  - MarkusQ 4mo ago
    "When we argue for our limitations, we get to keep them." -- Evelyn Waugh Paraplegics don't have the use of their limbs. Acting as if "sensory issues" are in the same category is grossly insensitive.
    - wvenable 4mo ago
      Suggesting you can just practice your way out of biological sensory issues is also grossly insensitive; that's why I made that comparison. Stating that using this kind of technology is "unhealthy" both for a person and society is a pretty bold claim that I think is pretty ridiculous.

tipperjones 4mo ago

People are really good at finding virtue within themselves

talon8635 4mo ago

You’re chastising the person above you for blocking out the world with headphones while bragging that you have honed skills over time to, due to desire and necessity, block out the world in your own head. In any case, it doesn’t strike me as unreasonable to want to be unbothered, especially in particularly bothersome circumstances. You don’t owe anyone your attention, and the assumption that you do can and is weaponized by everyone from Zuckerberg to the fentanyl addict aggressively demanding your money.

goodmythical 4mo ago
I'm fairly mistaken you've mistaken me on two counts. I've chastised no one. I've merely observed aloud that the choices we all make have effects on both ourselves and others. I also don't do any such thing as block the world out in my own head...not really sure where you could have gotten that except perhaps from a misunderstanding of meditation. The meditation that I and many practice is about peaceful abiding or compassionate awareness. It's about changing our own judgement of reality as it is, not escaping from it.
- talon8635 4mo ago
  Our comments speak for themselves, readers can decide for themselves

bitexploder 4mo ago

I worked in Manhattan often in the 00s and early 10s. Have people forgotten what big city life was like before? Commuters did not randomly strike up conversations. It was an unspoken code you left each other alone. Especially in rush hour commutes. Everyone is waking up or tired after a day of work. It is more about having some personal space in a crowded environment for many. Not everyone processes or experiences that the same way either.

gosub100 4mo ago
> It was an unspoken code you left each other alone. Adding to this, you never know in advance when your interlocutor's stop will come up. So subconsciously you know it's a bad idea to strike up a conversation. Plus it's a captive audience so the majority of people sense that it's wrong to "force" someone to talk. And the trains are noisy. It's difficult and unnatural to talk above the ambient noise.

antisthenes 4mo ago

> I can sleep, eat, shower, and meditate just as well in the middle of a deadly riot Good for you. I can't. Some people need quiet conditions to focus or sleep and if they don't it feels like active torture.

SubmarineClub 4mo ago

> poor souls you're choosing to ignore And why exactly should I give a fuck about people who are trying to bother and inconvenience me?

calf 4mo ago
The exact answer to that requires using the cognitive capacity of empathy.
- Lio 4mo ago
  Well perhaps you could spell it out for those of us who lack it then.