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What I find interesting is that the article seems to imply that wearing earbuds to isolate is somewhat "unnatural" (for lack of a better term). However it does

• nicbou 4mo ago
  Yes! When walking along busy streets, I put my airpods on without music just to remove some of the car noise.
  • embedding-shape 4mo ago
    I do the same when visiting large metropolitan areas! I don't want to be completely deaf, but reducing all the high-pitched noises and rumbling really makes my perception see/hear the environment more calmly.
  • OkGoDoIt 4mo ago
    Whenever I try to do that, the noise canceling amplifies the wind noise so much it winds up being louder and less comfortable than not wearing them at all.
• gijsnijholt1980 4mo ago
  Agreed. Unrelated pro-tip: wearing them while riding a motorcycle. Reduces fatigue and transforms a rough experience into almost luxurious. Highly recommended.
  • ginko 4mo ago
    Being able to hear your surroundings on a motorcycle or bicycle seems very important for safety to me. Filtering that out feels dangerous.
    • infecto 4mo ago
      Ear plugs are recommended while riding a motorcycle.
    • t-3 4mo ago
      On a pedal bike, it's very important because you are most likely to be hit by cars from behind. Motorcycles move much faster, and most riders wear helmets as well, already impacting hearing. The road noise and wind is very loud, try rolling down the window in a car on the freeway and imagine that on .your whole body.
      • smilespray 4mo ago
        Had a close call with a cyclist going the same direction as me. She veered over in my direction as I was overtaking and was rather startled to see me, as she was wearing Airpods.
        • ChoGGi 4mo ago
          Ah yes, the unintentionally suicidal, scariest part of being on the road.
      • hoppyhoppy2 4mo ago
        >you are most likely to be hit by cars from behind Do you have a source for this info? It contradicts what I've read about the subject.
        • t-3 4mo ago
          Just personal and anecdotal experience, and also that bike lanes usually move with traffic rather than against it.
      • lostlogin 4mo ago
        > On a pedal bike, it's very important because you are most likely to be hit by cars from behind. If anyone hasn’t tried a bike radar, they are a massive help. Eg Garmin Varia. Take care with the new model, the light is insane, on 5% you have the eye of Sauron blinding the rider behind you.
  • wcrossbow 4mo ago
    Sorry but no! On my corner of the world it's not allowed but more importantly it's dangerous. When riding your bike you must have all your senses fully engaged. First day I got on my new ride my dad gave me a piece of biker wisdom: You are the weakest and smallest vehicle () on the road, watch out and drive like nobody can see you or cares about you. () Bicycles and other light vehicles excluded
    • _jw 4mo ago
      I ride with AirPods on, no content playing, just transparency mode. It cuts harsh wind noise, maintains 3D acoustics, and keeps me safer as a result. They’re a hearing aid for me in this case.
      • Cthulhu_ 4mo ago
        You may want to get some passive ear protection though, active noise canceling is not the same as noise protection. Unless you drive slowly, I find that driving at 60 kph max is still comfortable on the ears.
      • frumiousirc 4mo ago
        > cuts harsh wind noise They look a little silly but cat-ears work surprisingly well.
    • adammarples 4mo ago
      No, riding for a long time without ear protection will damage your ears. Ear plugs at least are recommended. I am not hearing anything over the wind and engine noise anyway.
  • Neywiny 4mo ago
    When I got my (admittedly car) license they made it clear that's illegal. Hasn't stopped people from doing it but yeah don't. Maybe get a quieter exhaust
    • infecto 4mo ago
      Earplugs are pretty common on a motorcycle. The issue is not the exhaust, its the wind which gets to damaging levels at pretty low speeds.
      • quotz 4mo ago
        wouldnt the helmet prevent that ?
        • infecto 4mo ago
          Not at all. 30-40mph you can hit around 90 db inside the helmet. You’re not that much better with a helmet off either. Air moving over surfaces is loud, if not the helmet you are going to get it from the wind hitting your ears. There are certainly helmets that try to optimize for noise but there is no single one fix beyond ear plugs.
        • curiousObject 4mo ago
          The helmet protects the ears from direct airflow noise, but it also extends out into the high-speed airflow much more than ears do. The overall picture is that a helmet’s thick material blocks high frequencies. But it exacerbates and amplifies low frequency sound and white noise. As well, a helmet confuses the ear’s capabilities for identifying direction of sound that’s incoming If a helmet is helpful is a question of how fast the motorcycle is moving and what kinds of sounds the rider needs to hear. It’s complicated, but wearing no helmet might be safer at low speeds because the driver is more aware. No helmet, is undoubtedly not safer at high speed because brains are fragile Edit: a simple experiment for anyone is to put on a full size motorcycle helmet anywhere, and then you can understand how much your hearing is dampened by it. But I guess it’s probably no worse than the experience of someone driving a car, which is soundproof by design
  • GJim 4mo ago
    Stupidly dangerous and (in my country) illegal. Please retract your comment and don't encourage such stupidity. EDIT: Since this is being misinterpreted... Earplugs that deaden sound are fine and encouraged on a motorbike, playing music in your ears is what masks other sound and is both stupid and illegal.
    • infecto 4mo ago
      Really depends on how they are being worn. If they are on without any sound being played its fine. Ear plugs are highly encouraged while riding a motorcycle and after a decade plus of riding I have never thought ear plugs along with a headset prevented me from hearing whats going on around me. Maybe it is your own misinterpretation as the parent never said they were playing music on them. You might not realize just how loud the wind noise is on a bike, you are not exactly hearing your surroundings music or not. Most if not all of your awareness on a motorcycle is coming from your eyes not ears, so hard to really say its stupid.
      • esperent 4mo ago
        There's just a tiny step from wearing noise canceling earphones with no music playing, to pressing a button and blaring Bat out of Hell while you speed down the mountainside. In any case, it's irrelevant - as far as I know, wearing headphones or earphones while driving a motorcycle is illegal whether or not you happen to be playing music in them, because how would anyone else know? If you get in an accident and get charged with distracted driving, that's on you. If you want earplugs, just wear them. They're much cheaper and more effective than sound cancelling headphones if you genuinely just want to block noise.
        • infecto 4mo ago
          Not sure what your trying to a argue but it simply depends on the local laws but from a safety perspective I cannot think of many opportunities the sound would save you as it’s already loud enough from wind noise alone. I ride with a comm system that I play media over and trying to be reflective of my past and I don’t see it. Not really advocating one way or the other like yourself, I don’t have that strong of a feeling about that law but from purely a safety aspect I don’t fully agree with the opinion. If you don’t want to wear ear protection just don’t wear it. It’s your ears.
  • asdfsa32 4mo ago
    Do you ride for economic reasons?
  • deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
  • wazoox 4mo ago
    In Europe it's strictly forbidden to wear headphones under the helmet. In case of a fall the in-ear device could cause grave injuries. Wearing a recent helmet and protective gloves with hardened knuckles is of course mandatory. But many helmets are equipped with bluetooth speakers and mike, of course.
    • balfirevic 4mo ago
      > In Europe it's strictly forbidden to wear headphones under the helmet. No it's not. > protective gloves with hardened knuckles is of course mandatory No it's not.
  • throw0101c 4mo ago
    > Agreed. Unrelated pro-tip: wearing them while riding a motorcycle. Reduces fatigue and transforms a rough experience into almost luxurious. Highly recommended. What kind of NRR rating, active or passive, do they have? I wear disposable foam plugs when riding, and haven't ever considered using the AirPods I have. I find the sound of the machine part of the experience of riding and wouldn't really want to get rid of it; I treat the moto sound as a kind of white noise that's different that everything else in my life (though this is with a short-ish commute, and not long-distance drudgery). If I wanted music or comms I would probably lean more towards ear plugs plus a Cardo/Sena unit. Or perhaps something with an official ANSI/CSA NRR rating, like Isotunes.
    • carlosjobim 4mo ago
      Use a model of in-ear phones which let you still hear the low frequency rumbling of the motor. That's the pleasant part of the noise anyway.
    • wlonkly 4mo ago
      The reason they don't (and won't) have an NRR rating is that they're only useful for constant noise, and not for impulse sounds. There's no question that Airpods are not industrial PPE, for instance. But I also ride with foamies most of the time (laser lites) and airpods occasionally, and I'd guess that the bike and wind are maybe 10-15% louder with airpods. The foamies win out for actually staying in my ears when I put my helmet on, but if I can get it on then the airpods stay in place fine. Surprisingly, when I was looking for a rough equivalent to NRR for Airpods, I discovered that Apple does advertise their ANC as hearing protection[1], which I'll assume the FDA has now permitted, because Apple didn't used to make that claim because the FDA wouldn't permit it. They don't offer an NRR and they do warn against impulse sounds, but that KB article suggests a 20dB drop, which is nothing compared to foamies but is in the same range as musicians' earplugs or hardhat earmuffs, and probably better than Loops. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-ca/120850 https://support.apple.com/en-ca/120850
  • poncho_romero 4mo ago
    So you're making noise for everyone else, while enjoying silence yourself?
    • agentdax5 4mo ago
      There’s this thing called wind that makes noise and also other vehicles on the road as well. Did you ever consider that?
      • poncho_romero 4mo ago
        You're right, my comment is unfair. In my defense, I've had my sleep interrupted several times recently by motorcyclists trying to make as much noise as possible, so I'm a little ornery ;)
  • multjoy 4mo ago
    You should be wearing ear protection in any case. The fact that the AirPods have a published SNL is a bonus.
• paganel 4mo ago
  > (i.e. loud and busy environments with many strangers, often physically closer than comfortable) is unnatural to begin with. That's very natural when it comes to life in an urban setting. Love it or hate it, we wouldn't have been here now (I'm talking from a civilizational pov) without us humans moving into the cities.
  • randallsquared 4mo ago
    I think the argument is that the urban setting itself is ancestrally unnatural. Only a tiny proportion of humans lived in areas full of strangers in close proximity until the last hundred or two hundred years, which is not long enough for any related changes to spread widely given generation length.
    • steve1977 4mo ago
      > I think the argument is that the urban setting itself is ancestrally unnatural. That was my point, yes.
  • steve1977 4mo ago
    > we wouldn't have been here now (I'm talking from a civilizational pov) without us humans moving into the cities. What do you have in mind specifically? Edit: I'm aware that statistically, there's more inventions in metropolitan areas. However I'm not sure how much of that we can really attribute to causal effects that are unique to cities, especially today. Obviously, many universities are in metropolitan areas, but on the other hand, we have many tools for remote collaboration that we didn't have 200 years ago. So I'm not sure if cities are not an outdated concept.
  • datsci_est_2015 4mo ago
    I would even argue that being surrounded by people is a natural state. Being isolated in a suburban home or an automobile is probably just as unnatural as being “surrounded by strangers”. Our ancient ancestors probably did all of the following within eyesight and earshot of around 40 people: - Eating - Drinking - Defecating - Fornicating - Bathing - Exercising Privacy and isolation are a very modern phenomenon. Even in the 19th century social norms around fornication and defecation and the privacy expected are much different than today. Edit: I’m also deeply fascinated by the ability of historical sociolinguistics to give us insight into cultural attitudes towards different topics. Consider the evolution of and the attitude towards the expletives “fuck” and “Jesus Christ!”
• asdfsa32 4mo ago
  Strongly feeling a need to isolate yourself is not healthy and unnatural.
  • vitally3643 4mo ago
    Just because you personally disagree with something does not make it a universal wrong. Thinking so is immature and unwise behavior.
    • asdfsa32 4mo ago
      For a non-solitary species that requires almost 2 decades for self-sufficiency, isolation is not a question of personal opinion, it is fundamental.
      • dfssdfsdfsdf343 4mo ago
        Well, let's just say my needs changed a bit over the next two decades.. yours did not?
      • steve1977 4mo ago
        But we are talking about a temporary and situational isolation here. I'm not wearing Airpods when I meet family or friends.
  • ekidd 4mo ago
    This varies enormously by where you live. I live out in the countryside. If I run into someone in the road, I will nod my head, maybe introduce myself, and maybe chat, if the other person is interested. (To be fair, I know about 80% of the people I see in the road.) This is normal behavior. Sometimes, two cars will pass each other and stop to talk. I have also lived in the city. If a stranger wants to talk to me in the city, either they're looking for directions (happy to help!), or they are deeply confused about appropriate social behavior in crowded spaces. In the latter case, I'm lucky if the stranger-with-no-boundaries merely wants to warn me about the dangers of the lizard people. So I've learned to ignore strangers.
• _the_inflator 4mo ago
  Exactly. Noise cancelling is a treasure. And what I really like about them is the ease of use. The moment I start talking to someone, automagically the NC is paused as well as any audio you were listening to. It sounds so easy but is really running smoothly. Over time Apple really perfected the workings. This blend is what makes them so valuable for me. I don’t have to manually do anything, simply speak and interact without having to touch them. This is what bothered me really well, especially at work. Headset on, headset off - not anymore. And people now don’t feel neglected when you keep the Pods in your ear. Social reconditioning was part of the problem so to say. This tool is now accepted. Well deserved. I am buying another pair of the AirPods Pro. I want a bit of safety after I temporarily lost one ear pod - I felt so disturbed, suddenly not being able to enjoy freedom acoustically anymore. Just to make sure and switch between them.
  • dd8601fn 4mo ago
    They seem to have done so much work on the magic behaviors of the airpods (most of which I don’t have occasions to use) but they still work worse than a $35 pair of Ankers when it comes to just connecting, staying connected, and playing music without issue. They’re especially flaky if you’re using them with apples watch. I spent a few bucks on the pros, and the phone, and the watch, and the mini, and the tv, and the laptops. I shouldn’t be leaving that ecosystems ear buds in the drawer because the borderline disposable ones off amazon are the pair that “just work”.
    • phil21 4mo ago
      Complete opposite experience. Moved to the Apple ecosystem including the watch, and the seamlessness of how airpods work with them all had me give away all my other earbuds - even though the airpods do not have the best sound quality. The convenience of everything just working had me never reaching for anything else. I have plenty of complaints about Apple, but the Airpods experience is one the stickiest user experiences they have and would be one of the harder things to give up if I moved back to Android.
      • nativeit 4mo ago
• abdullahkhalids 4mo ago
  > (i.e. loud and busy environments with many strangers, often physically closer than comfortable) is unnatural to begin with. What is unnatural about this? We have plenty of anthropological evidence that humans have been doing massive festivals for at least many thousands of years i.e. people voluntarily gathering together with strangers in loud and busy environments with all sorts of sounds and smells.
  • bawolff 4mo ago
    We still have festival type experiences: concerts, street festivals, gatherings in a park, church, etc. None of them particularly look like the bus.
  • albedoa 4mo ago
    Ah yes, that natural many-thousand-year-old massive festival tradition we all know and love: the twice-daily subway ride. Good comparison.
  • steve1977 4mo ago
    For one, when and where this was the case, it was probably once a year or so.* Not daily or weekly. Furthermore, the "voluntarily" bit plays a big role as well. If I were to go to a big festival (as you can guess, I wouldn't), then I guess I would be fine with the people. But that's not the same as commuting IMHO, where I'm together with lots of people involuntarily. * it's an interesting topic actually, so if you have any sources, I'd like to read them.
  • wiseowise 4mo ago
    We have anthropological evidence that humans lived like sardines in a can 24/7? Where?
• seizethecheese 4mo ago
  Funny how new technology is unnatural but old technology, (that existed before we were born, like cars, streets, subways) are “natural”.
  • m12k 4mo ago
    Douglas Adams summed it up eloquently: “I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies: 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. 2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. 3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”
    • lostlogin 4mo ago
      I’d like a special exemption for social media, with it being in category 3 always.
      • herbst 4mo ago
        Or you are just old (me too)
• culi 4mo ago
  Humans have always crowded in busy markets, gone to large and loud parties, etc.
  • SauntSolaire 4mo ago
    Is this sarcasm?
    • culi 4mo ago
      Not at all. As far as trade goes, we have birds of paradise in New Mexico, 320k year old obsidian tools and color pigments found in Kenya that came from hundreds of miles away. We know trading across thousands of miles has been happening for hundreds of thousands of years. As for large celebrations, ceremonies, or just parties—well it seems silly for me to even spend time citing specific evidence. Of course this has been happening for hundreds of thousands of years as well
      • lostlogin 4mo ago
        > 320k year old obsidian tools and color pigments found in Kenya that came from hundreds of miles away. Might have been contactless drop off.
      • steve1977 4mo ago
        The (alleged) fact that there have been large celebrations does not necessarily imply that all humans of that time participated or enjoyed it, does it?
• FerretFred 4mo ago
  Interesting .. when we first moved to my current house we knew it was a quiet neighbourhood, helped by being set back from the main road. What I wasn't prepared for was the absolute silence in the early morning - it was what I imagine deafness would be like, if earbuds can achieve something approaching that, then take my money.
  • chasd00 4mo ago
    I think ears adapt to silence the way eyes adapt to darkness. When camping on some land I have is SE Oklahoma it’s so quiet I eventually begin to hear the conversations of our neighbors on their porch maybe a 1/2 mile away.
• fuzzygaz 4mo ago
  They have even more utility for folks on the spectrum who can struggle with sensory overload.
• oxonia 4mo ago
  They are useful for blocking the obnoxious sounds that modern life impose upon us. The largest consumer hardware chain in Australia, 'Bunnings', plays a notice over the store loudspeakers regularly (perhaps every 15-30 minutes) warning that violence against staff will not be tolerated. I'm not in any way an anxious person, but for some reason, the constant suggestion that I'm in a place where violence is a risk makes me feel upset so much that I don't visit my local store without my noise-cancelling AirPods.
  • antonymoose 4mo ago
    Is it just me or do places that have “no violence against staff” warnings tend to have the rudest staff? It’s starting to become a signal that the place is best avoided. Unfortunately that avoidance doesn’t work too well for TSA or my local hospital.
• tamimio 4mo ago
  Most times when I wear them (or any other Bluetooth headphones) they are turned off, just so no one talk to me.