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Company Will Add Phone, AirPod, and Smartwatch Trackers to ALPRs
- PowerElectronix 5mo agoNow that I think of it, I'd be surprised if there aren't a few lists of this kind already made by an agency/company or two.
- mikeocool 5mo agoIsn't it not really possible to uniquely identify most modern bluetooth devices this way? Specifically to prevent things like this. Unless they're hoping my AirPods are in pairing mode all of the time and they're going to track the name "mikeocool's AirPods."
- madaxe_again 5mo agoThey just need to link a cluster to you in the first place - say at a toll booth or drive-thru - where ANPR is already commonly deployed.
- snailmailman 5mo agoI thought most modern Bluetooth devices essentially randomize the Bluetooth MAC address periodically, specifically to prevent this sort of tracking? And random MAC addresses too on WiFi.
- Rebelgecko 5mo agoIf someone has a half dozen BT devices on their person/in their car and they randomize MACs hourly (but not all at once) I bet you could still track people pretty accurately.
- mikeocool 5mo agoI wonder how much that actually helps. A license plate scanner and a camera can easily identify me in my car. What tracking advantage does “there are three (probably) Apple devices” in the car as well confer. If I’m away from my car later, I’m just a guy walking around with 3 Apple devices (or two if I forget my phone in the car).
- mschuster91 5mo ago> A license plate scanner and a camera can easily identify me in my car. Sure, but now you can track someone from their car through public transport, shops and god knows wherever else someone placed a sniffer. And no, randomization doesn't help, because in the end the Find My beacons have to resolve down to some common identifier otherwise the "an unknown device has been following you for 2 hours" warning would not work.
- wolrah 5mo ago> in the end the Find My beacons have to resolve down to some common identifier otherwise the "an unknown device has been following you for 2 hours" warning would not work. Not really, this is actually pretty easy. If such a device beacons and a trusted device is within range the trusted device can respond to the beacon and let it know it's nearby, then it just counts up if not. X number of beacons with no response, set the "not near my trusted device" flag. Some other device sees X number of beacons with that flag set while moving around, send alert to the user.
- mikeocool 5mo agoDoesn’t the Find My stalking tracking work by connecting the the randomized id back to a unique device on Apple’s servers? So yeah, if they subponea/coerce Apple (or Apple signs up willingly) they could track people individually. But at that point we’re no longer talking about large scale tracking by an untrusted third party. Apple and my phone company have always been able to track me without getting license plate scanners involved.
- therealpygon 5mo agoSo that they can identify you and your friend ride together frequently and they need to make sure they can link you if you decide not to bring your work cell and AirPods to the “illegal” protest you rode with your friend to as part of your “domestic terror organization” since you and your friend also happened to go shooting at that gun range that one time for his birthday, and you were once in a Walmart with some other “co-conspirator”. The types of allegations that have already been used to smear citizens and officials alike. So yes, it is very helpful…to the “them”, not the “us”. And all along, the people will say they had no idea what was really happening that they kept voting for, while deep down, they knew exactly what they were voting for and why. And that description doesn’t apply to a single party. If you disagree with either sides totalitarianism and their march toward it, you will eventually be branded and potentially arrested on whatever charge will prevent you from voting in the future. Or at least that’s how it goes any/everywhere else that has gone down that path. Hopefully cooler heads in both parties prevail. It always saddens me that the non-“decision makers” of both parties don’t just band together to get things done they both can agree on (which is a lot). There is a lot more people at the bottom than the top in those houses, yet they both willingly kiss the ring of their leaders.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- josefritzishere 5mo agoThis feels illegal. If it's not, it probably should be.
- RunningDroid 5mo agoIt should be, but the last time the US got new privacy regulation it was because an employee at a VHS rental store embarrassed a member of Congress by telling people what movies he'd rented.
- chenster 5mo agoPrivacy is no more if that is true
- icameron 5mo agoI was in the space 10 years ago with a product. Primarily Bluetooth, later BLE and WiFi. At that time most consumer devices were constantly discoverable. About 3-5% of traffic would have a disoverable MAC. These days not so many. iPhones never are discoverable unless you are in pairing mode. BLE broadcasts beacons much more consistently and generates a lot of data to filter, but they also change MACs. Most WiFi chipsets use hardware based MAC layer, so promiscuous monitoring / sniffing is not possible on virtually every embedded module. There were a few chipsets, known as SoftMAC where linux drivers did the MAC layer, in which you could truly sniff the air for all traffic and capture a whole lot of MAC addresses. That was much more useful, but requires more CPU and specific older hardware. If you have a permanent power source like in a ALPR that isn't as much of a concern. I don't know of any companies that really did this though. Almost all our competitors used solutions that only supported the usual device discovery, which relies on BT being discoverable, or AP mode WiFi in order to track a MAC address. It's really easy to market though, it sounds great on paper. In practice the results are less than stellar and with time got even worse as vendors stopped being discoverable by default, and handsets started using used dynamic MAC addresses
- GlitchRider47 5mo agoUsing AirGuard on Android, I'm able to detect iPhones around me even when they are not in pairing mode.
- gruez 5mo ago>I'm able to detect iPhones around me even when they are not in pairing mode. Right, but the mac is randomized every 15 min, which makes tracking hard to pull off.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- wildzzz 5mo agoRight but SignalTrace isn't just looking at Bluetooth MACs, they look at Wifi, TPMS, RFID, and anything else putting out a signal. Say you stop at a bank that has one of these systems and it grabs your plates and TPMS sensor IDs. You rob the bank while wearing a mask and speed off in the car. The plates were stolen so you pull off quickly and ditch them for another stolen set. However, just the other day, the bank caught you on their system while you were casing it without stolen plates and they can match the TPMS to the real plates and know who you are (or at least who owns the car) and the cops get an alert to look for a specific car with plates X or Y. Or you're on foot and commit a crime while hiding your face. Your phone gets picked up on the system. They don't know who you are yet but if there are enough systems in an area, the cops have a 15 minute window of knowing where your phone is. Machine vision looks for someone matching your appearance and you're continuously tracked even if your phone's MAC changes. Even if you run into a public restroom to change your clothes, they can still associate your new appearance with your phone if the timing is right.
- crumpled 5mo agoAccording to the graphic, all RFID/NFC tags including pet microchips and your company badge will be associated with you too. I can remember in the late 1990's Berkeley Public Library was considering adding RFID tags to the books as asset tags. The public push-back was significant and surprising at the time. Freedom-loving library patrons were concerned about nefarious tracking. Proponents of the new tags thought that the concept of tracking people or the books they read was rooted in paranoia.
- bigiain 5mo agoI wonder how theyre going to get that to work at range? I reckon you'd need pretty big and specialised antennas to have and hope of reading RFID or NFC off devices in a car going past a Flock surveillance camera. Even people walking past are going to be more that a few meters away, which is and order of magnitude further away that RFID and NFC are typically read from. Not impossible, but it feels pretty unlikely that'd work inside the enclosure of a typical ALPR camera and at the distances devices would typically be away from them. Not without national security or military budgets at least. (Although perhaps that have that kind of budget? I mean one insular and NIMBY tech billionaire could pay for that in their San Francisco neighborhood. Possible already has, perhaps that where this company came from?)
- m463 5mo agoI wonder if they will instrument apps like waze to be promiscuous around these devices. Then correlate things other places like at the entrance to the mall or at registers.
- ssl-3 5mo agoThat's cool. As a reminder: Broadly speaking, RF-based TPMS systems on cars transmit their unique identities in the clear to anyone within earshot as part of how they work. (Not all use RF, but many do.) Also: The tires themselves frequently have RFID embedded in them, as part of the inventory management systems used in their production and distribution.
- gruez 5mo ago[dead]
- analogpixel 5mo agoProgram your flipper0 to record all wireless identifications for a few weeks. hook broadcaster to amplifier and attach to your car playing all the time. Every time you drive by one of these, it'll look like a parade just went by. Probably do the same thing when you go into retail stores. just flood the place with every possible identification. Maybe an easier solution is just write something that spoofs hundreds of fake ids and sends them out constantly where ever you go; bonus points if you can create IDs that can break the devices when they try to parse it.
- Peacefulz 5mo agoThese are the comments I'm here for. We aren't powerless to this shit. We just have to get create with our protest.
- puppycodes 5mo agoThere are very few ways to fight stuff like this and 100% agree this is a good one. I predict we are gonna need so much more of this type of obfuscation to just live our lives normally.
- fuzzfactor 5mo ago>Every time you drive by one of these, it'll look like a parade just went by. What's needed is a privacy non-profit that can park it right there and not just drive by.
- puppycodes 5mo agoGood idea for sure
- AndrewKemendo 5mo agoI have a F0 but it’s been sitting in my drawer any links to good scripts to run for this? I used to go pop teslas all the time but that got old
- bigiain 5mo ago
- ofModel35ba3b 5mo ago[dead]
- puppycodes 5mo agoThis is essentially a wiretap. It's illegal in most states to place a listening device in public that captures private conversations, this is basically no different.
- dabinat 5mo agoMAC randomization is all well and good but that extra security is undercut if people name their device with their full name. It seems to be common with Apple devices especially. After seeing just how much data my neighbors were leaking with their device names, I name all of mine with nondescript names that do not identify me or the device.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- eestrada 5mo agoTime to invest in a small Faraday bag to keep in the car.
- batch12 5mo agoDo they already gather TPMS data too?
- 0cf8612b2e1e 5mo agoThat’s usually attached to a rather bulky device with a legally mandated, visible unique identifier.
- exabrial 5mo agoThis came in the name of safety, btw.
- Hizonner 5mo agoThe annoying thing about this kind of thing is that it's still possible for the equipment to last a week on the streets. There has to be a way to solve the coordination problem. One person going around destroying stuff is a "notorious vandal" who can be hunted down and made an example of. Ten percent of the population doing it is game over for any scumbag who wants to deploy this crap.
- andrewheins84 5mo agoI think the first time I saw “an AirPod is travelling with you” I started to realize just how many signals follow us around daily.