5 ms·

I think discussion here are missing that most people do not own a PC/laptop and if they do barely ever opens one, and not because they can't afford it, but it j

I think discussion here are missing that most people do not own a PC/laptop and if they do barely ever opens one, and not because they can't afford it, but it just didn't fit into their daily lives. This is obviously entirely different from the HN crowd. And in that case, a folding phone is huge! Having played with one that my parent use, it's such an upgrade for reading/scrolling experience. When we all are spending so much time on the phone (that's a separate discussion, but it is the reality).

azan_ 4mo ago
Yeah, to support this point I'd also like to point that mobile gaming is larger market than both PC and console gaming.
harrouet 4mo ago
Especially in asian countries where PC penetration is lower.
kqp 4mo ago
To be fair, where this applies is specific countries outside the US, not just outside tech. Very few Americans own a smartphone and not a computer, and they are mostly poor and not in the market for an ultra-luxury phone. You’re describing affluent counties that became so recently, like China, South Korea, and Japan, and indeed that’s where foldables are currently doing well.
duxup 4mo ago
What's huge about it for someone who doesn't own a PC laptop? Every example I've seen or tried using a fold-able was just a regular smartphone with a screen that displayed apps that looked like the app doesn't fit on the phone very well. The few that did fit didn't seem to provide any real advantage. That and the fold-able users I know all run into reliability issues with screens breaking over time.
- arikrahman 4mo ago
  With my foldable, I find that I hardly use the full display and just use the main screen.
  - trueno 4mo ago
    i think about how little i use my ipad mini and yeah, like. its so easy to idealize these pieces of tech in your head and dream up scenarios. reminded of my coworker when he got the surface duo and how much his meeting life was gonna change. he was back on an iphone in like a month, felt like at every corner he was trying to invent reasons to use it but i dont know. it's interesting, im a nerd and enjoy nerdy things... but computing experience in my pocket that's with me at all times straight up doesn't hit the same as i thought it would when i was a kid and thought calculator watches were going to change everything and the idea of a miniature laptop would be so cool. honestly music, gps, mfa apps, texting and phone calls and im not quite certain i need much else. i explicitly left out email there cause email is just better and less stinky for your mentals when you've explicitly chosen to sit down and read it (ie im on my laptop). foldy iphone would be cool but i don't know i guess i'm just not creative enough to envision myself in scenarios where i want a bigger screen during my handset time anymore. if there was some sort of apple pencil as part of it that came with it, that actually changes the calculus just a smidge cause i enjoy doodling. i guess note taking "on the go" might mean something to some, but i supremely doubt apple is even remotely interested in bringing their pencil experience to the iphone.
    - somenameforme 4mo ago
      In my opinion, touch screens are themselves an example of what you're referencing. Sci-fi always showed them as being not only universal but opening possibilities one could only imagine. In reality they pretty much suck for everything except minimal input/passive consumption, or for doing a poor job of pretending to be a keyboard. I really wonder if they'll stand the test of time.
    - ncr100 4mo ago
      My Reality, not my idealism, with the '23 Pixel Fold: It makes the screen bigger, which is great for photograph viewing at a further distance from the device, and generally larger amounts of text on screen, at the cost of a 30% heavier and more delicate device. My eyes are 52 and they appreciate the larger characters, often times.
- Aperocky 4mo ago
  I thought exactly this until I used it for >2 hours.
  - duxup 4mo ago
    That doesn’t really answer the question.
- vidarh 4mo ago
  For me, it's entirely ended my tablet use, and now rarely reach for a laptop. I still have a desktop with two large screens, but I don't feel a need for anything in between any more. The screen is big enough for me that given it's always in my pocket it's far more convenient to grab my phone than getting up to grab my tablet or laptop.
  - duxup 4mo ago
    What are you doing on your fold device that works as well on a tablet but not a phone?
    - vidarh 4mo ago
      Everything. It's nice having more text and bigger images visible.
- NetMageSCW 4mo ago
  That would be an Android issue - Android tablets have the same issues. An iPhone foldable will have a much more cohesive ecosystem just like the iPad.
numbsafari 4mo ago
Exactly. Considering you could buy an iPhone and a MacBook Neo for roughly the same cost … will be very interesting to see this device in action. Can iOS replace MacOS for a user that doesn’t need a local Xcode? Can I spend $2k for the device I use in my pocket and on my desk… and put the rest of my money into cloud/server infrastructure if I have that need?
- garrickvanburen 4mo ago
  I worked a corporate job for 6yrs off an iPad Pro.
  - tohnjitor 4mo ago
    The iPad Pro is an amazing device for musicians.
jhbadger 4mo ago
A folding phone basically turns into a smallish tablet. That may have an attraction to some people, but even fewer people own or want a tablet than own or want a PC. And the people who do want tablets already have a better one than what a gimmicky folding phone can give them.
- ncr100 4mo ago
  I use my foldable as a phone until I want to see things bigger. Pretty straight forward to make it bigger, with a foldable.
somenameforme 4mo ago
As of 2021, 78.4% of households own a laptop or desktop, compared to 85.6% with a smartphone. [1] And it's likely driven more by economics than lifestyle choices. It's 50.9% for households earning less than $25k, and 96.1% for households earning > $150k. The reason PC purchases plummeted is not because people stopped using them, but because if you don't use your PC for high end gaming (or a tiny handful of other esoteric tasks) then one from a decade, or even more, ago will function 100% as well as a brand new one. [1] - https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2021/acs/acs-49.pdf https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publicatio...
- Aperocky 4mo ago
  Ownership isn't active usage though - My parents have their laptops (and probably 4+, since they do have retired ones stashed), but just don't use it, especially now that they retired.
  - wongarsu 4mo ago
    Exactly. I know people who own both phone and laptop, but the phone is used daily while the laptop is used a couple times a year. Mostly for writing letters, using some tax software, etc
- smallerize 4mo ago
  I don't know if the economic argument helps here, since you can buy 2-5 laptops for the price of a folding phone.
- makeitdouble 4mo ago
  > people stopped using them, I had many co-workers not owning a laptop outside of their work provided one. There is a mix of a workplace permissive enough of light use (browser/mail) for personal purposes, and most services having an app that can be better than their web site (banks in particular). Of course most people will have a laptop and just not use it for years, but there's definitely people just not buying one in the first place.
- alsetmusic 4mo ago
skissane 4mo ago
> I think discussion here are missing that most people do not own a PC/laptop and if they do barely ever opens one, and not because they can't afford it, but it just didn't fit into their daily lives. This is obviously entirely different from the HN crowd. This isn’t my experience. In our house: I’m a software engineer, and our 13yo son writes C++ code as a hobby, so of course we both have laptops and desktops. But my wife, and our 8 year old daughter, both have laptops too, and use them regularly, despite not being remotely technical; our daughter mainly uses her laptop for games-she also has a tablet and a Nintendo Switch, but for many games (The Sims, Minecraft, Roblox) she prefers her laptop; my wife plays The Sims too, but she also prefers a laptop to a phone or tablet for sending emails and general web browsing. Similarly my dad (a retired pharmaceutical company executive) is a lot less technical than he used to be (he hasn’t kept up to date and maybe some of these things get harder with advanced age), but he also prefers his laptop for some tasks (e.g. email, internet banking) despite also being a regular phone and tablet user
coldtea 4mo ago
>I think discussion here are missing that most people do not own a PC/laptop and if they do barely ever opens one, and not because they can't afford it, but it just didn't fit into their daily lives Anybody who works in an office job, employee or freelancer, (so 100s of millions in the US alone) both work with and own a PC/laptop. And that doesn't even count gamers and creatives. And many more that work blue collar jobs still own one, according to statistics. Some 16 year old might just use their smartphone, but most adults also use a laptop.
vidarh 4mo ago
I do have a laptop, and two large screens for my desktop, and my foldable is still a massive upgrade. I haven't used my tablet since I got it. I use my phone for things I'd often grab my laptop for etc. I hardly use the thing closed, even for things I easily could.

azan_ 4mo ago

Yeah, to support this point I'd also like to point that mobile gaming is larger market than both PC and console gaming.

harrouet 4mo ago

Especially in asian countries where PC penetration is lower.

kqp 4mo ago

To be fair, where this applies is specific countries outside the US, not just outside tech. Very few Americans own a smartphone and not a computer, and they are mostly poor and not in the market for an ultra-luxury phone. You’re describing affluent counties that became so recently, like China, South Korea, and Japan, and indeed that’s where foldables are currently doing well.

duxup 4mo ago

What's huge about it for someone who doesn't own a PC laptop? Every example I've seen or tried using a fold-able was just a regular smartphone with a screen that displayed apps that looked like the app doesn't fit on the phone very well. The few that did fit didn't seem to provide any real advantage. That and the fold-able users I know all run into reliability issues with screens breaking over time.

arikrahman 4mo ago
With my foldable, I find that I hardly use the full display and just use the main screen.
- trueno 4mo ago
  i think about how little i use my ipad mini and yeah, like. its so easy to idealize these pieces of tech in your head and dream up scenarios. reminded of my coworker when he got the surface duo and how much his meeting life was gonna change. he was back on an iphone in like a month, felt like at every corner he was trying to invent reasons to use it but i dont know. it's interesting, im a nerd and enjoy nerdy things... but computing experience in my pocket that's with me at all times straight up doesn't hit the same as i thought it would when i was a kid and thought calculator watches were going to change everything and the idea of a miniature laptop would be so cool. honestly music, gps, mfa apps, texting and phone calls and im not quite certain i need much else. i explicitly left out email there cause email is just better and less stinky for your mentals when you've explicitly chosen to sit down and read it (ie im on my laptop). foldy iphone would be cool but i don't know i guess i'm just not creative enough to envision myself in scenarios where i want a bigger screen during my handset time anymore. if there was some sort of apple pencil as part of it that came with it, that actually changes the calculus just a smidge cause i enjoy doodling. i guess note taking "on the go" might mean something to some, but i supremely doubt apple is even remotely interested in bringing their pencil experience to the iphone.
  - somenameforme 4mo ago
    In my opinion, touch screens are themselves an example of what you're referencing. Sci-fi always showed them as being not only universal but opening possibilities one could only imagine. In reality they pretty much suck for everything except minimal input/passive consumption, or for doing a poor job of pretending to be a keyboard. I really wonder if they'll stand the test of time.
  - ncr100 4mo ago
    My Reality, not my idealism, with the '23 Pixel Fold: It makes the screen bigger, which is great for photograph viewing at a further distance from the device, and generally larger amounts of text on screen, at the cost of a 30% heavier and more delicate device. My eyes are 52 and they appreciate the larger characters, often times.
Aperocky 4mo ago
I thought exactly this until I used it for >2 hours.
- duxup 4mo ago
  That doesn’t really answer the question.
vidarh 4mo ago
For me, it's entirely ended my tablet use, and now rarely reach for a laptop. I still have a desktop with two large screens, but I don't feel a need for anything in between any more. The screen is big enough for me that given it's always in my pocket it's far more convenient to grab my phone than getting up to grab my tablet or laptop.
- duxup 4mo ago
  What are you doing on your fold device that works as well on a tablet but not a phone?
  - vidarh 4mo ago
    Everything. It's nice having more text and bigger images visible.
NetMageSCW 4mo ago
That would be an Android issue - Android tablets have the same issues. An iPhone foldable will have a much more cohesive ecosystem just like the iPad.

numbsafari 4mo ago

Exactly. Considering you could buy an iPhone and a MacBook Neo for roughly the same cost … will be very interesting to see this device in action. Can iOS replace MacOS for a user that doesn’t need a local Xcode? Can I spend $2k for the device I use in my pocket and on my desk… and put the rest of my money into cloud/server infrastructure if I have that need?

garrickvanburen 4mo ago
I worked a corporate job for 6yrs off an iPad Pro.
- tohnjitor 4mo ago
  The iPad Pro is an amazing device for musicians.

jhbadger 4mo ago

A folding phone basically turns into a smallish tablet. That may have an attraction to some people, but even fewer people own or want a tablet than own or want a PC. And the people who do want tablets already have a better one than what a gimmicky folding phone can give them.

ncr100 4mo ago
I use my foldable as a phone until I want to see things bigger. Pretty straight forward to make it bigger, with a foldable.

somenameforme 4mo ago

As of 2021, 78.4% of households own a laptop or desktop, compared to 85.6% with a smartphone. [1] And it's likely driven more by economics than lifestyle choices. It's 50.9% for households earning less than $25k, and 96.1% for households earning > $150k. The reason PC purchases plummeted is not because people stopped using them, but because if you don't use your PC for high end gaming (or a tiny handful of other esoteric tasks) then one from a decade, or even more, ago will function 100% as well as a brand new one. [1] - https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2021/acs/acs-49.pdf https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publicatio...

Aperocky 4mo ago
Ownership isn't active usage though - My parents have their laptops (and probably 4+, since they do have retired ones stashed), but just don't use it, especially now that they retired.
- wongarsu 4mo ago
  Exactly. I know people who own both phone and laptop, but the phone is used daily while the laptop is used a couple times a year. Mostly for writing letters, using some tax software, etc
smallerize 4mo ago
I don't know if the economic argument helps here, since you can buy 2-5 laptops for the price of a folding phone.
makeitdouble 4mo ago
> people stopped using them, I had many co-workers not owning a laptop outside of their work provided one. There is a mix of a workplace permissive enough of light use (browser/mail) for personal purposes, and most services having an app that can be better than their web site (banks in particular). Of course most people will have a laptop and just not use it for years, but there's definitely people just not buying one in the first place.
alsetmusic 4mo ago

skissane 4mo ago

> I think discussion here are missing that most people do not own a PC/laptop and if they do barely ever opens one, and not because they can't afford it, but it just didn't fit into their daily lives. This is obviously entirely different from the HN crowd. This isn’t my experience. In our house: I’m a software engineer, and our 13yo son writes C++ code as a hobby, so of course we both have laptops and desktops. But my wife, and our 8 year old daughter, both have laptops too, and use them regularly, despite not being remotely technical; our daughter mainly uses her laptop for games-she also has a tablet and a Nintendo Switch, but for many games (The Sims, Minecraft, Roblox) she prefers her laptop; my wife plays The Sims too, but she also prefers a laptop to a phone or tablet for sending emails and general web browsing. Similarly my dad (a retired pharmaceutical company executive) is a lot less technical than he used to be (he hasn’t kept up to date and maybe some of these things get harder with advanced age), but he also prefers his laptop for some tasks (e.g. email, internet banking) despite also being a regular phone and tablet user

coldtea 4mo ago

>I think discussion here are missing that most people do not own a PC/laptop and if they do barely ever opens one, and not because they can't afford it, but it just didn't fit into their daily lives Anybody who works in an office job, employee or freelancer, (so 100s of millions in the US alone) both work with and own a PC/laptop. And that doesn't even count gamers and creatives. And many more that work blue collar jobs still own one, according to statistics. Some 16 year old might just use their smartphone, but most adults also use a laptop.

vidarh 4mo ago

I do have a laptop, and two large screens for my desktop, and my foldable is still a massive upgrade. I haven't used my tablet since I got it. I use my phone for things I'd often grab my laptop for etc. I hardly use the thing closed, even for things I easily could.