5 ms·
It’s the DMA regulation that forces Apple to give the same access as they have to other AI chat apps. Once it leaves the device Apple does not know what those
by peterspath 4mo ago
It’s the DMA regulation that forces Apple to give the same access as they have to other AI chat apps.
Once it leaves the device Apple does not know what those other ai chat apps will do with the gathered data.
> Siri AI is private by design and deeply integrated across Apple’s platforms using on-device processing and Private Cloud Compute, which extends the privacy and security of iPhone into the cloud. However, under EU regulators’ extreme interpretation of the DMA, Apple would have to give any virtual assistant direct access to users’ private data — and the ability to directly control other installed applications — as soon as Siri AI is made available in the EU, without the essential protections necessary to keep users and their data safe.
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/06/due-to-dma-siri-ai-delayed-in-eu-for-ios-27-and-ipados-27/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2026/06/due-to-dma-siri-ai-de...
- pjmlp 4mo agoBecause outsourcing to Google is so much trustworthy...
- another_kel 4mo agoI believe Google provides the weights, compute is apple owned
- pjmlp 4mo ago> Apple to use Google servers with Nvidia hardware for the new Siri https://www.macworld.com/article/3156959/apple-to-use-google-servers-with-nvidia-hardware-for-the-new-siri.html https://www.macworld.com/article/3156959/apple-to-use-google... People have to stop thinking Apple is somehow different.
- kube-system 4mo agoFrom your link: > Apple’s going to try to run as much of the new Siri as possible on-device Anthropic and OpenAI don't have edge models.
- pjmlp 4mo agoTry is a magic word.
- kube-system 4mo agoIt's not magic to those paying attention. The current model runs on device. And gemma e4b is already demonstrably capable on iPhone hardware, which is likely to be similar to what this is.
- kalleboo 4mo agoThe new model only runs on device on iPhone 17 Pro or M3 Macs or newer. Anyone else is getting server compute.
- coldtea 4mo agoFrom the link "Nvidia has its own “confidential computing” feature that encrypts data as it’s being processed, which will be used with other privacy and security measures to protect user data"
- speedgoose 4mo agoDo you know if it end to end encrypted or the keys are managed by Google?
- wmf 4mo agoI think the keys are directly from Nvidia and Intel.
- pjmlp 4mo agoYes, and how does the data get there?
- sterlind 4mo agoso to translate: - Apple has powerful capabilities in iOS to enable Siri AI. - EU's DMA requires them to allow users to install third-party AI backends. - Apple doesn't think parties other than themselves should be trusted with those iOS permissions. I guess it'd be like if Apple allowed a first-party screen reader for iOS, so they refused to allow third-party screen readers.
- Schiendelman 4mo agoI don't think they're "trusting Google" with anything. It's a Google model run by Apple, just like you download a model from Hugging Face to run when you want to.
- sterlind 4mo agoupdated my post to reflect this, thanks.
- Schiendelman 4mo agoYou bet! Also I appreciate your edit, a lot of people don't understand how much benefit they can bring to this community by doing that!
- usrnm 4mo ago> It's a Google model run by Apple Run by Apple where? Do they really have enough hardware to run it in-house?
- trollbridge 4mo agoYes, and if they don't, they can lease datacentre capacity like anyone else can. SpaceX seems to have plenty for rent.
- LearnYouALisp 4mo ago[flagged]
- t0mas88 4mo agoSounds like Apple PR bullshit. Unless Apple proves otherwise I'm more inclined to believe they're either 1. Using this to try and shape the DMA in their own interest (definitely not their users' interest) or 2. Doing something with the data that would not be allowed in the EU (also not in their users' interest at all) or both.
- aprilthird2021 4mo ago> Once it leaves the device Apple does not know what those other ai chat apps will do with the gathered data. It's the user's data. Not Apple's. And it should be the user's right to send it to whoever for whatever results, imo
- koolala 4mo agoMeta would probably start a massive ad campain to pay people money to install Meta iPhone AI.
- FridgeSeal 4mo agoThey wouldn’t even need to do that. It’s pretty easy to come up with any number of pernicious approaches they’d use: - “instagram is better with MetaAi: yes/ask-me-later”. - updated ToS which bundles a “we’ll use our own ai, and do whatever we waaaaant” Lying, gaslighting and underhanded “growth hacking” tricks are their bread-and-butter, and you can be sure that whatever they’d have you install would blindly slurp up as much as they possibly can with zero regard for user privacy.
- benoau 4mo agoMeta already did that, right under Apple's nose for three years! https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/
- Rohansi 4mo agoAnd that's exactly how it works for apps you download from the App Store. Apple even makes app publishers declare data collection and privacy practices on the App Store before you install apps. It's clearly just Apple not wanting to further open up their platform to competition.
- benoau 4mo agoNot only that but it's an honour system they aren't checking any of the privacy policies or labels for accuracy, just last year a whole bunch of high-profile apps like Candy Crush Saga and Clash of Clans got caught claiming suitability for all ages while their privacy policies banned under 13s so they could advertise and collect data indiscriminately.
- troupo 4mo agoTranslation: Since it's the user's device, not Apple's, EU correctly "interprets" this as the user has the right to do whatever they please, including installing third-party chat apps. Apple are just bulshitters when it comes to actual users, and not their corporate definition of a user. BTW, did you know that in Japan, and in Japan only, you can change the Siri shortcut button to start other voice assistants? https://mjtsai.com/blog/2025/11/18/ios-26-2-third-party-voice-assistants-in-japan/ https://mjtsai.com/blog/2025/11/18/ios-26-2-third-party-voic... Or that they wouldn't let you set default maps app outside of the EU: https://mjtsai.com/blog/2025/03/14/dma-compliance-default-maps-app-in-eu/ https://mjtsai.com/blog/2025/03/14/dma-compliance-default-ma...
- bigfudge 4mo agoThis is such a shallow take. There are obvious privacy and security tradeoffs here. The EU competition framework is good in many ways, but this is actually something I don’t think we have the regulatory frameworks in place to handle yet , or social norms and understanding about why giving any Tom dick and Harry root on all your data is a bad idea. It’s paternalistic, but I agree with Apple that free for all access to this kind of data is not a great idea. Ironically, before this could work we’d actually need much more EU style data regulation, and more consistently enforced.
- Maxion 4mo agoI dunno, I trust the EU regulators more than I'd trust any US based company.
- bigfudge 4mo agoI do too, but in this case the choice isn't between apple and the EU. It's between apple and the <random rapacious vc backed ai startup looking to hoover your data> your non-technical friends foolishly trust, without much understanding of the implications for them or society as a whole. Ultimately I think it's important for the EU to regulate companies like apple to ensure competition. But in this instance, it doesn't seem like we have all the other pieces in place that would be necessary for a sensible rollout of that.
- tom1337 4mo ago> It’s the DMA regulation that forces Apple to give the same access as they have to other AI chat apps. But why can Tesla ship Grok to their cars in the EU without any problems? Why aren't they required to let me choose between Grok, OpenAI etc or even a custom endpoint?
- dchest 4mo agoThe are not a "gatekeeper" under DMA (not enough users). Same as macOS.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- j_maffe 4mo agoBecause Tesla hasn't been classified as a gate-keeper in the DMA.
- mschuster91 4mo ago> But why can Tesla ship Grok to their cars in the EU without any problems? Simply because they are too small in user count. EU DMA, DSA etc. only apply at certain thresholds. Twitter for example falls under the scope, but Tesla is a distinct entity from Twitter and even if they were merged together, they would still be distinct services in the eye of the law.
- rahkiin 4mo agoTesla is not marked as a gatekeeper by the EU and thus the law does not apply.
- well_ackshually 4mo ago> Once it leaves the device Apple does not know what those other ai chat apps will do with the gathered data. Yeah, that's the whole fucking point.
- progbits 4mo ago> EU regulators’ extreme interpretation of the DMA It's not extreme interpretation, it's the intent. Just say it would break your vendor lock-in.
- quentindanjou 4mo agoI don't want my apps that have AI implemented to be able to read my messages because Europe mandates feature parity. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. For Apple it means building all the APIs that probably already exist but this time to be requested by apps, which would be a huge attack surface, even Apple's own apps suffers from security breaches (like Message before the switch to closed container execution). AI breaks the separation of concerns, which can lead to disastrous consequences. EU has great intentions, and of course, feature parity should be offered so that competition can exist, but I don't find it crazy that it is more complicated on a product like that. As tech people things are very obvious to us but we need to remember that we are talking about a product used by everyone.
- layer8 4mo agoIt’s not clear how it is significantly different from allowing apps access to your contacts, calendar, photos, and so on. And Apple doesn’t say that they merely need more time to properly implement it, the claim that they are unable to implement it without compromising privacy and security. And the latter I don’t really see, with the proper set of permissions presented in the way users are already used to. As an Apple user I feel more patronized than empowered here.
- dwaite 4mo ago> It’s not clear how it is significantly different from allowing apps access to your contacts, calendar, photos, and so on Those are allowed via contextual consent prompts, several of which are for specific contacts, specific photos you wish to share, and so on. Examples of the level of access an AI agent has include: 1. To read all indexed personal data from every app installed on the device 2. To perform actions in every supporting app on the device on the user's behalf 3. To read the current displayed apps for additional context as well as sensor data like current location If you were regulated such that you had to allow any organization this level of access, and if you were hand-tied in how much you could convey the seriousness of accepting that consent prompt to an ordinary end user, and felt that it would be you, not any legal authority, who would ultimately suffer the reputational and legal consequences for the results - what would your yes/no decision be on shipping the feature in that jurisdiction?
- bloppe 4mo agoApple loves to play dumb about this stuff. The EU imposes a pretty straightforward regulation regarding equality of access. Apple seems to come up with all sorts of "solutions" to this "problem", and each one never amounts to true equality of access. They could easily just allow users to decide "Do you want to give this app unfettered access to all your device data, including other apps' data?". Let users decide. 99% of Apple users in the EU will probably click "no". I'm sure they'll make the user warnings scary enough to ward off anybody who doesn't know what's going on. There are 2 potential outcomes: either the sky really does fall, and there's a meaningful uptick in bad things happening to iPhone users, in which Apple can easily point the finger at the EC and say "they made us do this". Apple looks like the good guys who put up a good fight for their users, but ultimately their hands were tied, and they'll probably get the revisions to EU law they're so desperately fighting for. The other possibility is that the sky does not fall, and Apple looks both silly and malicious at the same time for ever having suggested that it would, which was clearly in bad faith. Clearly, Apple cannot afford scenario #2, so I think they will probably never give their users the actual freedom that the MDA requires them to. They will just exit Europe entirely before allowing that to happen.
- FridgeSeal 4mo ago> Do you want to give this app unfettered access to all your device data, including other apps' data? Which Facebook and instagram will present as “tee hee updated terms of service” in the first 15 seconds, and people will tick it, because they’re not interested in reading T&C’s, just want to message their friend about dinner, and aren’t suddenly expected be deceived like that.
- Zagitta 4mo agoAh yes something a trillion dollar tech company definitely is too inept to solve!
- transcriptase 4mo agoWhy bother when some round-rimmed glasses wearing suit in Brussels named Klaus will immediately begin working on the next set of demands?