5 ms·

Doesn't visiting hacker news count as personal growth? Or am I supposed to grow professionally outside the work?

by p0w3n3d 5mo ago

chaosharmonic 5mo ago
Most of my knowledge of new tools comes from newsletters, forums, and content creators. I find things through passive media consumption (and, where I can get it, discourse with other enthusiasts) more often than I find them in the course of trying to solve specific problems. But not all managers think that your learning sources are valid, and care more that you spend time on their learning paths. Even if it's your off time. (Yes, there is a story attached to this haha... and more importantly, several different writeups[1][2][3] on how random internet wanderings have been more beneficial to my overall technological capability than people who insist on the importance of a CS background when building dashboards and client UIs. In practice, thanks to a dev box with insufficient RAM, and your typical tabbed-browsing problem, I used `pkill` over `ssh` -- something I picked up from toying with Over the Wire levels in my off time -- a lot more often than I used linked lists at that job.) [1] bhmt.dev/blog/scraping [2] bhmt.dev/blog/ctf [3] bhmt.dev/blog/feeds
Hamuko 5mo ago
Maybe? And yes.
chrismustcode 5mo ago
I once got told for an internal promotion I couldn't put anything regarding my current role, responsibilities and achievements in the role. I got told to put any volunteering or previous. Reason given was it's what is expected at work everything you do in your role, you need to show above and beyond.
- LiquidSky 5mo ago
  Seems like that'd just discourage people from going above and beyond at work. Why do more than the bare minimum to avoid being fired if nothing else you do counts?
  - Forgeties79 5mo ago
    >Look, we want you to express yourself, okay? Now if you feel that the bare minimum is enough, then okay. But some people choose to wear more and we encourage that, okay? You do want to express yourself, don't you? (This is from Office Space for those who don’t know. Hilarious scene with Jennifer Aniston)
    - eecc 5mo ago
      The Flair scene? Oh seriously than got me so much vicarious embarrassment, I feel uneasy just at the thought of it.
      - ProllyInfamous 5mo ago
        [Jennifer Anniston flips Mike Judge the bird, on-screen #inLove] >>"How's THIS for expression?!? I'm sick and TIRED of this ... job!" ---- I will never go above&beyond again – for any corporate entity – ever again. You can blame past corporate bullies, not yourselves.
taude 5mo ago
You're 100% supposed to grow professionally outside of work.
- 1121redblackgo 5mo ago
  pass
  - mh- 5mo ago
    This is such a curious POV for me - I'd genuinely like to hear your thoughts on this. Who owns your career growth if not.. you? (If you don't desire to grow your career, that's a viewpoint I can entirely understand.)
    - serf 5mo ago
      some people see 'career growth' as going to seminars and networking with manager types. some people see 'career growth' as opening up a new technical manual and acquainting themselves with new stuff. I think it's import to differentiate; networking with managers and going to industry-specific (or even company specific) seminars offers next to zero enticement for me, but I usually always have the time to read about a new language or tech. In other words: If a growth opportunity arises, i'd rather it be personal growth.
      - taude 5mo ago
        I don't think it matters how you define it. Engineering career growth is almost always going to be about understanding the new technologies, gaining communication skills in navigating an org. etc.... What you're calling personal growth is 100% related to career growth. And you sound like someone who does do things outside the hours of 9 to 5 that intellectually you find interesting, and likely makes you better at what you do 9 to 5... You're going to show up at that meeting someday, there's going to be a problem to solve, and you're going to have some ideas for things to try that are answers, because you read about that new tech. And someone's going to tap you on the shoulders to lead that or what not....
- 5mo ago
veber-alex 5mo ago
Yep. One time my manager did a hour long lecture for our team on how personal growth is important and that we all should expand our horizons and learn new stuff. When I tried to reserve 2 hours A WEEK for studying tasks I got push back that I should do it on my own time. It was a complete joke.
- consp 5mo ago
  This sounds like the "everything you create in your own time is company property since we cannot distinguish if what you do in your own time isn't company related" clause in some contracts. Under no circumstance is it actable where I live, but it can sure scare the hell out of people and presents a line of thought. Yes, some companies think they can own copyright on the things you write at home.
  - doubled112 5mo ago
    If my contract says that I must be available immediately at any time, do I have ANY personal time? Or is all of my time their time too?
    - daveshistory 5mo ago
      Absolutely. Your personal time is that time which, in retrospect, the company didn't need you for. It's strictly a backward-looking definition.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 5mo ago
    I call that the "shower clause," because the company claims ownership of any ideas you come up with, in the shower. I think, like noncompetes, there's limits to how far the company can actually enforce it, but they bank on the fact that they have lawyers on permanent retainer, and you don't. Even standing up for your rights, against blatant corporate overreach, is expensive.
    - cindyllm 5mo ago
javcasas 5mo ago
No. You should grow professionally outside of work by also following the work-mandated professional development plan. And you will be punished if you don't do it, or you do it at a pace that doesn't match expectations. You know, don't forget the details.
mikeyinternews 5mo ago
Or grow professionally during work hours using a personal device.
yoyohello13 5mo ago
One time my manager messaged me panicking about a big nextjs vulnerability. I told him, no worries, I saw it on HN and we patched weeks ago. He told me to use HN at work as much as I want.

Doesn't visiting hacker news count as personal growth? Or am I supposed to grow professionally outside the work?

by p0w3n3d 5mo ago

Doesn't visiting hacker news count as personal growth? Or am I supposed to grow professionally outside the work?

Most of my knowledge of new tools comes from newsletters, forums, and content creators. I find things through passive media consumption (and, where I can get it, discourse with other enthusiasts) more often than I find them in the course of trying to solve specific problems. But not all managers think that your learning sources are valid, and care more that you spend time on their learning paths. Even if it's your off time. (Yes, there is a story attached to this haha... and more importantly, several different writeups[1][2][3] on how random internet wanderings have been more beneficial to my overall technological capability than people who insist on the importance of a CS background when building dashboards and client UIs. In practice, thanks to a dev box with insufficient RAM, and your typical tabbed-browsing problem, I used `pkill` over `ssh` -- something I picked up from toying with Over the Wire levels in my off time -- a lot more often than I used linked lists at that job.) [1] bhmt.dev/blog/scraping [2] bhmt.dev/blog/ctf [3] bhmt.dev/blog/feeds

Hamuko 5mo ago

Maybe? And yes.

chrismustcode 5mo ago

I once got told for an internal promotion I couldn't put anything regarding my current role, responsibilities and achievements in the role. I got told to put any volunteering or previous. Reason given was it's what is expected at work everything you do in your role, you need to show above and beyond.

LiquidSky 5mo ago
Seems like that'd just discourage people from going above and beyond at work. Why do more than the bare minimum to avoid being fired if nothing else you do counts?
- Forgeties79 5mo ago
  >Look, we want you to express yourself, okay? Now if you feel that the bare minimum is enough, then okay. But some people choose to wear more and we encourage that, okay? You do want to express yourself, don't you? (This is from Office Space for those who don’t know. Hilarious scene with Jennifer Aniston)
  - eecc 5mo ago
    The Flair scene? Oh seriously than got me so much vicarious embarrassment, I feel uneasy just at the thought of it.
    - ProllyInfamous 5mo ago
      [Jennifer Anniston flips Mike Judge the bird, on-screen #inLove] >>"How's THIS for expression?!? I'm sick and TIRED of this ... job!" ---- I will never go above&beyond again – for any corporate entity – ever again. You can blame past corporate bullies, not yourselves.

taude 5mo ago

You're 100% supposed to grow professionally outside of work.

1121redblackgo 5mo ago
pass
- mh- 5mo ago
  This is such a curious POV for me - I'd genuinely like to hear your thoughts on this. Who owns your career growth if not.. you? (If you don't desire to grow your career, that's a viewpoint I can entirely understand.)
  - serf 5mo ago
    some people see 'career growth' as going to seminars and networking with manager types. some people see 'career growth' as opening up a new technical manual and acquainting themselves with new stuff. I think it's import to differentiate; networking with managers and going to industry-specific (or even company specific) seminars offers next to zero enticement for me, but I usually always have the time to read about a new language or tech. In other words: If a growth opportunity arises, i'd rather it be personal growth.
    - taude 5mo ago
      I don't think it matters how you define it. Engineering career growth is almost always going to be about understanding the new technologies, gaining communication skills in navigating an org. etc.... What you're calling personal growth is 100% related to career growth. And you sound like someone who does do things outside the hours of 9 to 5 that intellectually you find interesting, and likely makes you better at what you do 9 to 5... You're going to show up at that meeting someday, there's going to be a problem to solve, and you're going to have some ideas for things to try that are answers, because you read about that new tech. And someone's going to tap you on the shoulders to lead that or what not....
5mo ago

veber-alex 5mo ago

Yep. One time my manager did a hour long lecture for our team on how personal growth is important and that we all should expand our horizons and learn new stuff. When I tried to reserve 2 hours A WEEK for studying tasks I got push back that I should do it on my own time. It was a complete joke.

consp 5mo ago
This sounds like the "everything you create in your own time is company property since we cannot distinguish if what you do in your own time isn't company related" clause in some contracts. Under no circumstance is it actable where I live, but it can sure scare the hell out of people and presents a line of thought. Yes, some companies think they can own copyright on the things you write at home.
- doubled112 5mo ago
  If my contract says that I must be available immediately at any time, do I have ANY personal time? Or is all of my time their time too?
  - daveshistory 5mo ago
    Absolutely. Your personal time is that time which, in retrospect, the company didn't need you for. It's strictly a backward-looking definition.
- ChrisMarshallNY 5mo ago
  I call that the "shower clause," because the company claims ownership of any ideas you come up with, in the shower. I think, like noncompetes, there's limits to how far the company can actually enforce it, but they bank on the fact that they have lawyers on permanent retainer, and you don't. Even standing up for your rights, against blatant corporate overreach, is expensive.
  - cindyllm 5mo ago

javcasas 5mo ago

No. You should grow professionally outside of work by also following the work-mandated professional development plan. And you will be punished if you don't do it, or you do it at a pace that doesn't match expectations. You know, don't forget the details.

mikeyinternews 5mo ago

Or grow professionally during work hours using a personal device.

yoyohello13 5mo ago

One time my manager messaged me panicking about a big nextjs vulnerability. I told him, no worries, I saw it on HN and we patched weeks ago. He told me to use HN at work as much as I want.