7 ms·
Three Ways to Get Paid (2018)
- kuanbutts 4mo agoThere's got to be a variant that is a 2x2 matrix of this: Lie to others, lie to yourself (spiral together; either fantastically poor or spectacularly rich) Lie to others, tell yourself the truth (manipulation, morally broke, but materially rich) Tell others the truth, tell yourself the truth (integrity, barely scrape by) Tell others the truth, lie to yourself (be used by the system, usually end up poorly)
- jaxn 4mo agoI think the fourth would be "lie to those who want you to tell the truth". His father's saying may have been: "There are three honest ways to make a living". The fourth option is where scams and fraud live.
- nyeah 4mo agoSome might argue that lying to those who want to be lied to is still usually dishonest.
- zaphar 4mo agoIt's not really a rule of thumb that "Tell others the truth, tell yourself the truth" means you have to barely scrape by. Plenty of people make good money that way.
- badgersnake 4mo agoIt pays to be suspicious of those who tell you you can’t make an honest living.
- c22 4mo agoHuh, I've always been suspicious of folks claiming the opposite. For the downvoters, have you ever tried to explicitly map your externalities?
- zaphar 4mo agoWhat does mapping your externalities have to do with honesty? Is this a poor attempt to suggest that no one can actually be honest because no one has a full understanding of the entire universe? Because that's just a lazy excuse for not trying to be honest and not really worth being in the debate.
- cortesoft 4mo agoHaving externalities does not mean you are dishonest. Hell, you can even ignore your externalities and still be honest. You can even outright steal from people and still be honest.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- mock-possum 4mo agoYeah on the contrary, it’s been my experience that finding other truth tellers tends to lead to a supportive community, where everyone is relieved they don’t have to put up with bullshitters.
- sidewndr46 4mo agooh god it's the Rumsfeld quadrants for truth....
- AnthonyMouse 4mo agoThe missing quadrant on that one is interesting too: > "there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know." The fourth corner is unknown knowns, things that we don't know that we know. Bureaucracies have that one in spades.
- cindyllm 4mo ago[dead]
- k8sify 4mo agoLove it! https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/c85ca76f-bff7-4ff4-87e7-3d191e555b12 https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/c85ca76f-bff7-4ff4-87e7-3...
- quotemstr 4mo agoIs it me, or have HN submissions gotten shorter and shorter recently? At this rate, top-scoring articles will consist of a single word in a few years.
- darepublic 4mo agoThis title makes you want to click the article. Other titles that give away the lede influence people to just directly hit the comments section
- AndrewKemendo 4mo agoTo wit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48368059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48368059 There’s basically no content in that one At least this one has reasonable content
- wl 4mo agoWhat little content is in that one is a quote by a fraudster.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- toast0 4mo agoCould be worse. They could have padded this out a ton with emojis and dashes.
- officialchicken 4mo agoIt's already about 85%: (Look at) me - with charts. We can replace those with TikTok dances instead.
- hoppyhoppy2 4mo agoI'd rather have a short article than a short article that was fed into an LLM to be expanded into a long one that says very little. But yeah, when I seek truly "intellectually gratifying" material I usually log off of HN and read a book.
- ThrowawayTestr 4mo agoI wish I didn't have any scruples, I'd be so rich.
- Andrex 4mo agoThe scruple-to-dollar exchange rate is just the worst. Or the best. Whichever makes more sense in this analogy.
- claytongulick 4mo agoI was offered a project to develop a game for this sweet old lady once. She'd heard that if you made a video game and sold it, you would make a lot of money, so she'd decided to take her life savings, $200k, and hire someone to make a game. She didn't know what kind of game or anything, just "make a game". I was really worried about her and spent two hours on the phone with her trying to educate her and help her protect herself and her savings. At the end, she just got sort of mad at me and I could tell she was just going to get someone else to do it. Was so sad. Wish I could have helped her more.
- andai 4mo ago"A fool and his money are easily parted."
- AndrewKemendo 4mo agoI have a running tally of job offers that paid crazy money but I did not do because they were unethical Every spiritual tradition on the planet rejects material wealth as undignified and immoral https://genius.com/Wayne-wade-poor-and-humble-lyrics https://genius.com/Wayne-wade-poor-and-humble-lyrics
- neogodless 4mo agoThe "read the rest" button seems broken in Firefox on Windows... so that makes for a very short post.
- jmuguy 4mo agoSame in Firefox on Mac. Links are hard, I guess.
- jolmg 4mo agoThe URL: #replace-with-the-found-url From searching the text, it seems it hasn't been published on the WSJ.
- Gualdrapo 4mo agoSo the author lied and they are trying to get rich?
- Aperocky 4mo agoAuthor never told us what happens when one lies to those who seek the truth... is that on a different plane of reference?
- bigblind 4mo agoThen you become a poletician, though I guess that could also apply to lying to people who want to be lied to.
- prmph 4mo agoYou get paid, but it does not last
- sunrunner 4mo agoThat earns you a special position as one of a pair of guards in a labyrinth with two doors, one of which leads to freedom and the other to... ba-ba-ba-bum - certain death.
- jaggederest 4mo agoThere's also good money to be made telling people what they already know, usually in the form of a report and/or powerpoint deck
- groby_b 4mo agoAh, but you only tell them the things they already know and want to hear. That filter is crucial in any kind of advisory/consulting work. You're there to confirm biases, in 95% of the cases.
- cortesoft 4mo agoIt depends on who is paying you. Sometimes, people pay you to tell OTHER people things they know but don't want to hear.
- chasd00 4mo ago> report and/or powerpoint deck if you can sell someone on a second report to verify the first you can make a lot of money too. "a man with one watch always knows what time it is, a man with two watches is never quite sure"
- jaggederest 4mo agoThat implies the existence of reports 3 through N, so we should probably automate the process...
- joewhale 4mo agothese are what self help books are.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- tim-projects 4mo agoI can already think of 5 jobs this doesn't apply to in the slightest.
- tweakimp 4mo agoand they are?
- echelon_musk 4mo agoFruit picker.
- tim-projects 4mo agoDay trader Garbage collector Zoo keeper Tennis player Lifeguard
- apsurd 4mo agoThey're all making a living by telling people the truth that want the truth. The more money they make the more they deviate being solidly in camp #2. It's an aphorism. I enjoyed it. It's not a proof of the Universe.
- tim-projects 4mo agoI didn't realise this was Facebook
- xoxolian 4mo ago- Day traders: Usually get rich "lying" — as influencers. As I hear, very few successful traders have day trading as their only income (and very few are successful), so they supplement it with other income streams. And those income streams, when relevant to daytrading, tend not to inform audiences that they'll best earn maybe 20% per year, and maybe only be able to live off capital above $100-500k. - Garbage collector, zoo keeper, lifeguard: As honest jobs, you can hopefully make a living doing these. To leverage these skills to become rich.. I don't know, but would imagine there might be some big lies along the way. - Tennis player: How do they become rich, endorsements? Does associating yourself with a racket, shoe or energy drink count as telling truth or lying? Since ads aren't an analysis of the racket's technical properties, nor its contribution to your playing... I'd say it's lying.
- Forgeties79 4mo agoThere are very rich/powerful people that do #1 shocking well and I kind of wish I had figured it out sooner. Having a moral compass apparently set me back irreparably. I could've been somebody!
- hootz 4mo agoOoooooooh, so that's how sociopathic CEOs and directors of big companies get rich!
- whalesalad 4mo agoMy first thought was "cash, grass, or ass" but this works as well.
- Ccecil 4mo agoMight not get you far in life...but it'll get you to the next town.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- jubilanti 4mo agoApparently if you're a YC alum you can get to the top of the front page of HN posting an advertisement to go read someone's paywalled Wall Street Journal op ed, with a broken link when you click "read the rest".
- tiffanyh 4mo agoThis is spelled out on the FAQ page: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
- gghh 4mo agoCan you please spell out the spell out? You're linking 1300 words.
- dewey 4mo agoCmd +F "Paywall" > Are paywalls ok? It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds. In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic. More here.
- gghh 4mo agoThanks
- anon7725 4mo agoIt’s Jason Zweig, the Wall Street Journal personal finance columnist, not a YC alum.
- waqarjaved 4mo ago[flagged]
- andai 4mo agoIn this thread: dang, I wish I was evil too!
- officialchicken 4mo agoHe's done some absolutely god-tier moderation around here over the years and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he actually possessed the power to grant that kind of wish.
- nowittyusername 4mo agoI had often thought about how far I could get in life if I had no scruples or morals. And I think I could get really, really far.... But alas I don't like to lie, cheat or any of that jazz. I actually do care. Honestly it feels like a form of brainwashing. As a kid you are taught all of these things that cripples your growth in adulthood while the other guy uses that as an opportunity to enrich himself.
- riazrizvi 4mo agoThanks. I keep doing 3. I needed this.
- js2 4mo agoCopy/pasta of the entire post: My father, who died in 1981, was an inexhaustible font of wisdom and wit. I don’t know when he told me this particular three-part rule, but I’ve never forgotten it. I tweeted it three years ago, but people keep asking for it in one place, so here it is. There are three ways to make a living: 1) Lie to people who want to be lied to, and you’ll get rich. 2) Tell the truth to those who want the truth, and you’ll make a living. 3) Tell the truth to those who want to be lied to, and you’ll go broke. The rest is commentary. --- That last line is undoubtedly a reference to: > When someone challenged Hillel the Elder (b. 110 BCE) to teach the entire Torah while his listener stood on one foot, he famously replied, “That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the entire Torah, and the rest is commentary. Now go and study.” https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/5410546/jewish/Is-Hillels-Teaching-the-Same-as-the-Golden-Rule.htm https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/5410546/jewis... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder Aside, I've always seen it spelled "fount of wisdom", but either spelling is acceptable and this seems to mostly be an American/British spelling difference: https://www.cjr.org/language_corner/font-knowledge-fount-wisdom.php https://www.cjr.org/language_corner/font-knowledge-fount-wis...
- sp1nningaway 4mo agoI like the Hebrew syntax of the golden rule! I've never seen it before. I've always like the idea of taking it a step further and trying to do unto others as they would like done unto them. However, the current state of the world has made me realize that lying to people that want to be lied to creates a flywheel of negative outcomes. I guess the better way to improve the golden rule is to use empathy to internalize and understand the things other people are looking for, that way you can keep the golden rule simple, while not assuming that others want the same as you. ...we find that we may misjudge a man's attitude, his background knowledge, his aims, his standards ; and we may learn from our mistakes and take care even beyond the golden rule. (Karl Popper)
- tombert 4mo agoI've told this story before, but it's relevant. When I worked at BigCo [1], we were interviewing a candidate for a position. He was pretty good, and we were in the process of making him an offer, but he was asking for more money and trying to negotiate his salary higher. I don't have an issue with this, BigCo has plenty of money, but other people, including a manager, were complaining. They felt that this is a good job and he shouldn't be doing this for the money. I, not realizing that this was controversial, said "yeah, but come on, we all do this for the money." Some people got defensive, explaining that they love the job. I responded "sure, it's good to like your job and your coworkers, I'm not trying to discourage that, but if BigCo stopped paying you then you'd probably stop showing up for work. At least I would hope so." They kind of begrudgingly agreed, and the day went on as normal. The next day, I have an impromptu meeting scheduled with my manager's manager, explaining that I have a "bad attitude" and he mentioned that specific comment as a reason that this meeting was being called. Now, to be fair, at the time I did have a bad attitude (in no small part due to at-the-time-undiagnosed sleep apnea), but the fact that I got in trouble for mentioning something that is objectively true really confused me. We weren't working for a charity, we weren't trying to cure cancer, we were working for a for-profit corporation. Of course we were doing it for the money, just like the corporation hired us so that they could make more money. But I guess people just like to believe a collective lie. [1] I'm sure you might be able to go through history and find the specific BigCo, and that is fine, but I politely ask that you don't post it here in relation to this comment.
- wrs 4mo agoI've been at BigCos in times past where there was some plausibility to this, but in the current BigCo workplace climate, anybody who tries to claim it's not about the money has a long row to hoe!
- tombert 4mo agoThis would have been 2019. Even then, I feel like anyone who had been in the industry long enough should have developed some level of cynicism.
- allenu 4mo agoIt sounds like another way to put it: tell people what they want to hear and you'll go far. Most people want their beliefs confirmed, whether what they believe is true or fiction. Unfortunately it can lead to an echo chamber-y world where people only associate themselves with others who have the same core beliefs, which is even easier when communities are online.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- mlhpdx 4mo agoThe wisdom from my Mom was “it’s better to be paid for what you know than what you do”. I’ve found it’s a bit more subtle than that, and enjoyed and learned a lot from piece work labor. But the sweet spot seems to be getting paid for what you do that uses what you know. AI notwithstanding, of course.
- 1234letshaveatw 4mo agoMy Mamma says that alligators are so ornery because they got all them teeth but no toothbrush
- beej71 4mo agoWhen I was a dev working with my business-oriented business partner, I had to get used to sitting in meetings where we promised the client the world having no idea if I could accomplish it or not. Made a lot more money than I could have on my own. "Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say 'YES'!!"
- apprentice7 4mo agoThis is often the advice given by senior folks and I think it is somewhat similar to say that you have to "lie a bit on your CV". Still, I always wonder what would I do if I make these big promises to clients/bosses/management and I fail to deliver. Wouldn't that be worse than having said "no, I won't be able to make it in time" from the beginning? For context, I'm early in my career (3 YOE) and I don't deal with management that much yet (I'm still shielded by my tech lead and PM), so I'm always looking for advice on how to navigate these things. I really can't just say "YES, YES, YES" when I know *very well* that something won't be possible. Maybe it is just a sign of being too junior?
- 4lx87 4mo agoNobody wants to hear "no". The way you say "no" without saying it is by turning "no" into an option, and attaching costs to options. "no, I won't be able to make it in time" would be "I can confidently deliver in time if I have X, and we save Y and Z for later."
- sublinear 4mo agoWell said, and on the flip side the strongest signal that your management sucks is their absurd sense of entitlement and inability to handle "no" correctly. Their lack of curiosity and ambition will cause the business to miss out on so many opportunities. A naive junior shouldn't stump them, but it really does happen all the time. If all they have to do is ask what it takes to flip it to a "yes", the same information is communicated. The only thing ever truly at stake was someone's ego.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4mo ago
- WorkerBee28474 4mo agoFor a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4 (NLT), circa 65 Anno Domini
- greenhearth 4mo ago"Time is coming"? Pretty sure this always happened
- AndrewKemendo 4mo agoIt’s a pretty old quote
- greenhearth 4mo agoIt's relatively not
- LeifCarrotson 4mo agoYeah, but even when it was a new quote, it was inaccurate: People have always wanted to follow their own desires, always wanted to be told what they want to hear, and always disliked listening to harsh truths. Even in 64CE.
- greenhearth 4mo agoI think they meant "fount" of wisdom
- cjs_ac 4mo ago'Font' and 'fount' are synonyms, although they tend to be used in different contexts nowadays. Even in the sense of a font for setting text, there are older works that discuss 'founts of type'.
- greenhearth 4mo agoWhat a bunch of complete sociopathic crap this is
- vcarrico 4mo agoSo there are two ways? xD
- calmbonsai 4mo agoWatching our (newly hired) CTO lie to the entire company regarding the capabilities of a new feature I was hired to build was a brutal education in money-politics.
- game_the0ry 4mo agoIts also very telling who takes the blame when things fail.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- tchock23 4mo agoThis hits home. I started my career in market research after someone told me that it was the only part of the business world where you’re paid to tell the unvarnished truth, which I thought was cool. It wasn’t until many years later that I realized the clients actually wanted to be lied to, and that if you weren’t willing to do that you wouldn’t succeed.
- ProjectVader 4mo ago[flagged]
- nunez 4mo agoSales in a nutshell. The world is a pyramid of lying and incentives.
- Wowfunhappy 4mo agoThese ways to get paid could be represented as a table: They Want Lies They Want Truth +--------------+---------------+ You Tell Lies | become rich | ??? | +--------------+---------------+ You Tell Truth | go broke | make a living | +--------------+---------------+ Notice how the upper right quadrant is left out of TFA. If you end up there, I don't think things go well for you. By which I mean, like, you could end up in jail. Maybe telling lies isn't such a great business idea after all?