6 ms·
New Beam Spring Keyboards
- recursivedoubts 5mo agoHi HN, I know many of you are keyboard aficionados and I wanted to let you know that the Model F keyboard guy is making a 2nd generation of his Beam Spring keyboards. I got one and it is unlike any other keyboard I have ever used: the tactile feedback is precise like a buckle spring but louder and with a more pronounced break. Travel feels longer and obviously the keyboard sits very high compared to modern board. But it's a heck of a typing experience if you are interested. I've you've never heard of beam spring keyboards, this was the IBM keyboard before buckle-springs (same guy, Richard Harris) took over. It uses a very different mechanism than buckle-spring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFYoh5VcZvg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFYoh5VcZvg Very cool that someone is working to bring back these older key switches! From the page: > What is a Beam Spring Keyboard? Before the Model F keyboard was the Beam Spring keyboard, a keyboard that was designed to be like the IBM Selectric electric typewriters but made to work with IBM’s mainframe terminals. Originals regularly sell for over $1,000 to $2,000 but now you can get one in various “normal” modern layouts and various color options for a fraction of that cost. The new beam spring keyboards are also compatible with MX keycaps (see below for details).
- MengerSponge 5mo ago"Like a Model F, but louder" is a heck of a pitch. I'm interested!
- porknubbins 5mo agoAre mechanical keyboards becoming a way to show off like the programmer equivalent of loud truck exhaust? The sound is satisfying yes, but with other people in mind I am looking for the quietest mechanical keyboard I can find these days. I have become self conscious about typing quietly during phone calls or meetings in case I am unmuted.
- __s 5mo agoI had to switch to low force choc couple years ago over tendon pain. Ended up on totem for day to day & bad wings for travel. 20g silent nocturnal switches. Silencing mechanism also gives bottom out a rubber feel, worth it just for that
- MengerSponge 5mo agoTotem and bad wings are gorgeous, but I'm here to thock. I'm actually a Topre purist.
- moepstar 5mo agoI could probably $searchengine this, but not being into keyboards: none of that made any sense to me :D
- MengerSponge 5mo agohttps://youtu.be/-C-eYnqeBuk?si=18nyv86uYKu74gi0&t=242 https://youtu.be/-C-eYnqeBuk?si=18nyv86uYKu74gi0&t=242 It's a weird hybrid keyswitch that isn't widely used because it's expensive. It has a distinctive sound and a fantastic feel.
- ihateolives 5mo ago20g? How do you use it? I'm light typist, I'm not hammering on keys at all and even 32g is too nervous for me, I can't rest my fingers on keyboard without typing a novel. Can't imagine 20g keys.
- __s 5mo agoYou get used to it quickly. Low force useful for combos
- bschwindHN 5mo agoI have loud keyboards for selfish fun typing when no one is around, and a silent one for working near others. I use a switch called Akko Penguins, but there are tons of silent switches out there that people like. Topre keyboards also have a strong following and I think are pretty quiet.
- atriarch 5mo agoIt's nice to see human-centered computing making a comeback with the older, robust, and hefty tactile interfaces - and I hope to see more like this as token factories eat wallets and jobs.
- recursivedoubts 5mo ago100% agree, gives me hope
- aetherspawn 5mo agoThese are definitely not robust. The product description mentions about 5 times that it will most likely be broken when it arrives to you, and will definitely break again in months or years so recommends buying extra first aid kits with spare parts so you can tinker it and keep it working.
- rbanffy 5mo agoI understand they are restarting production from scratch for a product that no longer exists and that nobody actually knows how to make, but being openly unreliable is a significant problem at this price point.
- Applejinx 5mo agoNah. It's a british sports car, but a keyboard. At this price point the idea that you can have a little pile of parts and take it apart on weekends to fiddle with the springs is its own selling point. I'm typing this on a Das that's been completely reliable and, to some extent, clackety and 'special' in its own right. There's five other keyboards that came with computers not thirty feet away including an older Das that I wore out: the keycaps are unreadable on that one, the current one's hanging in there. I'm not in a position to randomly splurge on this new beam spring monster but I understand exactly what it is, and admit to craving it something fierce :) it's exactly the sort of thing I'd get.
- rbanffy 5mo ago
- sleepybrett 5mo agoI have his model-f, and while i like it setting it up to flash firmware to it was a bitch and a half and his docs read like a 4th grader wrote it. He should invest some money in cleaning up that side of his business.
- ModelFKeyboards 5mo agoThe manual was redone recently - folks tell me now that they were new to these keyboards but were able to easily follow along the manual to set up their keyboard.
- sleepybrett 5mo agoWell I should revisit then, I was pretty early in the process but the docs initial provided were utter dogshit. Would have been nice if you had sent out even an email to your customers to let them know.
- sleepybrett 5mo agoI just went and looked at your manual: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/manual/#10 https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/manual/#10 This is still dogshit. This document is poorly formatted, is your intent to make the website look like it was written in the era when the original keyboards were introduced? Pay a designer/tech writer/information architect and get the job done.
- rbanffy 5mo agoIn the meantime, I would remind the people who would like to experience a vintage keyboard to take a look at the Unicomp model M keyboards. They are not Model Fs or beam spring, but are rock solid, reliable, and sensibly priced considering their quality.
- WesolyKubeczek 5mo agoMy Endura Pro started having issues three months in after arriving to me in 2013; I remember how it was $99 and shipping was $98, and then I had to pay VAT on it. It died quite quickly after and become parts donor for old IBM Model Ms I bought out from people’s attics. It was a wonderfully repair-unfriendly thing, too.
- jaggederest 5mo agoContrariwise, my unicomp model M has been going strong as a daily driver for at least 18 years. They may have lowered the quality more recently, and I'd recommend something in the cherry mx brown ballpark over it perhaps.
- WesolyKubeczek 5mo agoMany people swear by Unicomp, but I had that bad luck that I first paid for the thing, got the thing, and then read that as of recently, there had been problems. Problems with quality, problems with output. Then they went so quiet people thought they had gone out of business, then they resurfaced. By that time, I've had an original Model M and two different OG Model Fs. When I buy old stuff from eBay, at least I have my expectations calibrated to the fact that this shit is real old. Your unit must have been a couple years older than mine, so it just might be of that more legendary quality. Yours is from at least 2008, right? You may even had got it before markets went bonkers!
- jaggederest 5mo agoYeah I believe it's a 2006 model shipped in May 2007
- WesolyKubeczek 5mo agoMine is now at customs. Wondering how fucked it’s going to arrive. But I guess I like pain. The 104-key model F I’ve got has a dead spring in numpad delete, and I can’t carve out enough time to disassemble and fix it. Mind you, I did disassemble, put in DIY foam, and reassemble a Model F XT, so I’m not afraid to do it. Between me ordering the beam spring one and getting it, I managed to change my citizenship, name, and house. But it was only a two year wait, the first Model F remake (60%) took three years and I was quite late to that party.
- Our_Benefactors 5mo ago> This keyboard is not for you if you do not want to spend an hour or more to set it up and time in the future to adjust a key that stops working well. Do not use any beam spring keyboard in a mission-critical environment. Yeah, I’ll pass
- userbinator 5mo agoSome keys won’t work right away – you are responsible for making this keyboard work Do not use any beam spring keyboard in a mission-critical environment. I can say this is the first time I've seen this in the sales description for a keyboard. Are these assembled from NOS parts?
- appplication 5mo agoI’m not going to call it dumb, but I will will say… reading that bit, I don’t understand this product at all and could not be further from their target market.
- chongli 5mo agoI don’t understand it either and I know people who are in it. Super expensive keyboards are one of the strangest hobbies I’ve heard of!
- userbinator 5mo agoI'd understand it more if super expensive keyboards actually improved typing speed and accuracy, but I think they just like the sound and feeling of the keys. I have a rare board with Blue Alps switches, from when most keyboards were mechanical; it's definitely very clicky and tactile, but I rarely use it because I can type much faster on a generic low-profile one with soft and cushy rubber domes.
- amelius 5mo agoThese are keyboards for users of LLMs. Every time their keyboard falls apart they are reminded that LLMs can make mistakes.
- momopoco 5mo agoHaving dealt with this vendor in the past he uses verbiage like this to weasel out of INAD claims (eg. if something is defective he’ll just point to this and deny your return) - I wouldn’t trust him with a $400 keyboard
- 5mo ago
- ndiddy 5mo agoNote that Ellipse/modelfkeyboards is notorious in the keyboard community for poor quality control and support. The keyboards often come misaligned or damaged in shipping, and it's up to you to fix them. I'm not sure about their beam spring keyboards, but their Model F keyboards come without keycaps installed, meaning that the keys haven't even been tested to actuate properly before the keyboard is shipped. If you have the money and free time, you can usually turn what you receive into a working product with enough tweaking. You just have to keep in mind that you'll be paying over $400 for a keyboard that may arrive broken, and if it does you will have as close to no warranty as what's legally possible. If you dig around on forums and in comments you can find a bunch of examples of this, but here's a decent summary: https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Model_F_Labs https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Model_F_Labs
- fooqux 5mo agoThanks for posting this. I've been looking at getting one but this has made me pause.
- ndiddy 5mo agoYeah it's a shame because his keyboards are genuinely good, I just find it strange that he operates like this. If he charged an extra $100 or whatever and acted like a normal company (fully assembling and testing prior to shipping out products, packaging things properly so they don't get damaged in shipping, having a mail-in warranty service, that sort of thing) I think he'd have better sales.
- TylerE 5mo agoAll of those things would cost a hell of a lot more than $100 unit. Probably closer to doubling the price.
- recursivedoubts 5mo agoSee my sibling comment: the v2 beam spring keyboard (metal version) worked immediately out of the box and all I had to do was but key caps on. This is an enthusiast producing these and the beam spring mechanism is entirely redone with modern touches (e.g. support for mx style keycaps) so there is risk, but mine works great. I think that the fully enclosed beam spring mechanism should hold up better during shipping than the spring-and-barrel mechanism on the model F. Of course YMMV and it is an expensive and rare keyboard, but my experience has been good.
- xwhatsit 5mo agoAwesome! I'm happy I have a future option in case my 3727 ever wears out (which I somehow can't see ever happening...). I'm not associated with this project in any way, but I'm excited to see the Beamspring (and Model F capsense stuff) is still ticking along. I keep meaning to redesign my controller for the 2020s but the original crappy design keeps working perfectly for my needs and I can't justify the time to update it. I'd love to do something dumb like throw an FPGA at the problem or try and use the RP2350 PIO. I don't think we ever matched what IBM's original ASIC achieved.
- ModelFKeyboards 5mo agoNice to hear from you xwhatsit! Project coordinator here. Your contributions to the mechanical keyboard community are still well-regarded as probably the one who single-handedly saved thousands of original IBM keyboards and gave them a second life. Not sure if you've been following but forum member Rico recently created a new controller based on your original: an RP2040-based controller that runs on Vial. Check out Rico's github for the "Leyden Jar Controller"
- asmodeuslucifer 5mo agoI had a model F, I loved it. Then the H key stopped working. I knew from previous experience that trying to fix them never went well, so it went to the shelf and eventually to the garbage. They were only about $100 on ebay at the time though.
- poopsmithe 5mo agoWhat's the solenoid option used for? Sorry I'm young and don't know any better.
- gedy 5mo agoIt's a solenoid that actuates each key press, for the sound and tactile feedback. It's something else, lol.
- GuB-42 5mo agoThe problem with clicky keyboards like this one is that they annoy everyone sharing the same workspace, but the boss in his office may not hear it. The solenoid fixes that problem.
- redlewel 5mo agoGlad to have an original IBM Unsaver so I don't have to rely on sussy reproductions
- recursivedoubts 5mo agoAmazing keyboard. This one is good to, and takes MX key caps.
- recursivedoubts 5mo agoSome people have mentioned quality control issues with this keyboard vendor, particularly with the Model F. I have the Model F and it is a bit finicky admittedly. I support the vendor based on their hard work to bring back these classic keyboard mechanisms, but if you want one that "just works" the Model M from Unisys is probably a better bet. As far as the beam spring goes, this is the second revision of these switches. These switches are a complete modern re-imagination of the original beam spring switches and support Cherry-style key caps. Unlike the Model F, the switches are self-contained and setup just involved putting key-caps on. The keyboard worked flawlessly and immediately. This is an enthusiast trying to bring back classic keyboard switches that have been out of production for decades, so I am willing to grant him some slack in general, but I'm extremely happy with my board. It's a very different typing experience, but I love it. I understand many people aren't willing to risk $400 on a keyboard, but I also want to let people know about my great experience with it.
- ModelFKeyboards 5mo agoHello, project coordinator here. If you haven’t been following the project recently, I am happy to report that more than 7,000 Brand New Model F and Beam Spring keyboards have shipped since 2019, and the very first Round 2 classic style Beam Spring B104 keyboards started shipping this month, as noted here. If you want to see current comments about the project, please do check out the recent user feedback on the current production boards on the Deskthority forum - Beam Spring project thread linked to on the project web site - About page. You are seeing discussion of issues in these HN comments and in the project thread in recent years due to me preparing and shipping a few thousand keyboards over that time, not because a high percentage of boards are permanently nonrepairable. If you can follow what’s in the manual, you are guaranteed to have a working keyboard, period. It’s nice to receive a note that all is well, but most folks only email/post if there is an issue. If several dozen out of 7,000+ folks are posting with issues that does not indicate mass quality control improvements needed. Almost all of the negative discussion stems from the same half-dozen people who posted again and again on one of the now-ghost town mechanical keyboard forums a couple years ago, whereas I have exchanged thousands of emails with folks, many of whom let me know privately that they followed the manual and are happy with the setup. And almost all of their reports centered on one product that ended production years ago, instead of the dozens of variations of keyboards that have been released since then. Apologies in advance for my long-windedness. To quote Oscar Wilde: “The truth is rarely pure and never simple.” Regarding the warranty - nonworking parts are replaced for free under the limited warranty. If someone is saying otherwise, they didn't read the project or did not contact me to ask for a replacement. You don't have to live with a broken keycap. Regarding paint wear - the main complaint - this was with the original production keyboards that started shipping over 6 years ago. 5 years ago, the paint formulation changed to a more modern, tough powdercoating that has received zero complaints of premature wear. Bottom line, if you want tough powdercoating, pick a model besides the classic style F62/F77. That’s the only one with the paint-wear issues. The originals still have some stock remaining (with full disclosure of this, and now sold at a hefty discount), which is why it’s still brought up every now and then that these two old models can be bought today and will have the old coating because they were made a long time ago. Regarding firmware - the project switched to Vial several years ago. To change a key you can now use the Vial GUI. Additionally, a new controller has been made that is based on the RP2040; it also uses Vial firmware. Many changes since the old days of original xwhatsit firmware and QMK. With the new Leyden Jar controller you literally click a key combination to enter the bootloader, an empty drive appears in the file manager, and you copy and paste the firmware file to that folder. Regarding the manual, keys getting stuck etc. - the manual has recently been rewritten and reorganized into easy to follow, step-by-step instructions. I think the main complaint is that many folks believe that all products should arrived fully assembled and never require maintenance or adjustments; they think if they have to adjust something as a normal part of setup that it is somehow broken. I explain below why that's just not possible for a small project like this one. Additionally, someone else wrote their own ultra short manual which can be found as a link on the manual page on the project website. It’s normal to spend a couple hours to setup the keyboard and then a few minutes to adjust keys and springs every now and then. The manual is designed to cover every possible step to setup and maintain these keyboards in the decades to come; not every action is needed as part of normal setup. The manual will enable even beginners to have a fully working keyboard by following the step-by-step instructions there. As I mention there, the last step is to email me if you are having trouble after following the manual and I can help. Regarding the project philosophy (customer service, etc.): The project philosophy has always been about teaching folks how to maintain their keyboard for life, not to rely on others for help. The setup guide is there to walk you through everything, from adjusting springs to reseating keycaps, so that even if you aren’t naturally inclined to use tweezers and a screwdriver, you can keep your board running long after the project has shut down. For ten years now, the priority has been clear: pass along the lowest possible cost to everyone. The project rejects the modern product philosophy of essentially “renting” a device for its warranty duration and then discarding it because it can’t be repaired. To keep these keyboards affordable, the responsibility falls on the end user to learn the basics, such as reseating springs and keys. The alternative would be adding several hundred dollars to the cost of every keyboard to cover “free” repairs, salaried customer service representatives, and shipping charges (due to the heavy keyboard weight) for simple things that only require a screwdriver and tweezers, or to reduce the quality and production cost substantially. That would completely defeat the goal of making these boards accessible to as many folks as possible. Making these boards that much more expensive with friendly service and dedicated phone support would reduce the possible number of new Model F’s shipping each year by half or more. There’s a reason why IBM charged $800, plus annual maintenance contract fees, for what the project charges $200 to $400 (without service contracts). At those prices and with IBM’s economies of scale, one can afford generous customer service with a no questions asked full replacement of the keyboard even if one key stops working, instead of fixing it yourself. Always a tradeoff in small business - more one-on-one service and freebies that big companies offer, higher cost or cheaper product. There are no margins to cover these extras. The businesses that can afford concierge service have a large enough margin and economies of scale to support it, whether one is aware that they charge many times the cost of the product/service or not. For example Apple’s average selling price is $900 to $1000 for an iPhone and their gross margin is estimated at 50% to 60% for each iPhone, with other products as well contributing to their overall profit margin of close to 50%. Given their scale that margin comfortably allows for retail stores with Genius Bars and walk-in support, but with products that are not economically repairable outside the warranty period. While a small but vocal group might post online wanting personalized customer service for every issue and for a rep to never tell someone to read the manual, the vast majority of the thousands of users simply follow the manual and are perfectly happy typing away. Taking an hour or two to read the guide almost always addresses the expected adjustments required as part of the initial setup. If a part actually fails prematurely during the warranty, it gets replaced for free, but realistically, I just can’t be the first line of defense for simple operations that are already clearly detailed in the manual. I need to focus on working with the factories and mailing out all the orders. These kinds of small projects require balancing the desires for more against the need to keep the keyboard cost as affordable as possible without sacrificing quality. In summary and to directly respond to several commenters here, according to the thousands of emails I’ve sent and received over the past several years, these keyboards have held up well for those who have bought during that timeframe. If they didn’t, then you’d see thousands of complainers, not dozens of the same folks who post the same things again and again, and you’d see hundreds of folks each year trying to sell broken new Model F keyboards on eBay. (I track these sales and estimate that more than 97% of the project’s keyboards have not been resold). Every part of the Model F and Beam Spring keyboard is repairable or replaceable, which is one of the main draws to these keyboards being truly Buy It For Life and against the planned obsolescence movement. The only reason the keyboard would stop working is if someone did not follow the manual to set it up and maintain it when needed. I wouldn’t ruminate on comments based on products made 6 years ago (two specific old models you’re likely not buying), which the bulk of the few negative comments are about. It’s easy to be negative on social media, especially when the algorithms reward controversy to maximize engagement, but it takes a rare courage to put your (online) reputation towards stating something positive, in public, when you know that others may disagree with you and then personally attack you for your beliefs if you speak up.
- LAC-Tech 5mo agoI'm a bit of a clicky switch enthusiast. I use gateron melodics, which have a click leaf, meaning the click sound directly corresponds to actuation, unlike most modern clickies. So I am very curious about beam springs. I doubt I would ever use one every day (I am pretty set on split ortholinears that sit low on the desk with short keycaps) but would love to try one.
- ModelFKeyboards 5mo agoIf you are curious, I recommend Chyrosran22's excellent overview of IBM Beam Spring keyboards on YouTube.
- dangus 5mo agoI have used similar retro keyboards to this. I think it was that company that got the machinery from IBM. This stuff has cool factor but it’s pretty terrible compared to the incredibly varied and fully customizable modern mechanical keyboard market. It was a nice novelty for me to have an “IBM keyboard” but outside the novelty it wasn’t anywhere close to being a competitive keyboard. Someone interested in this should just buy real vintage equipment as the novelty factor on that is way higher.
- globular-toast 5mo agoDo they have to look like this and use up way more desk space than normal keyboards, or is it part of the "aesthetic"?
- ModelFKeyboards 5mo agoThere are ultra compact modern design keyboards also available, that are the smallest possible designs that can accommodate what's needed for these old switch designs.
- WhereIsTheTruth 5mo ago> $438.00 Must be alien tech.
- haritha-j 5mo ago> Custom/Low Serial/Birthday? : Single Digit (0 through 9) ($149) Jinkies!
- Natfan 5mo ago403 Forbidden Access to this resource on the server is denied great!
- lelanthran 5mo agoThat black+white key keyboard gives off serious VIC20/C64 breadbin vibes.
- cednore 5mo agosystem76's Launch is my favorite, when it comes to retro keyboard. https://system76.com/keyboards/launch https://system76.com/keyboards/launch