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[flagged]

SpicyLemonZest 4mo ago
I just don't see how it's possible to construct a classroom environment that can simultaneously serve an 8th grader who's ready to start learning algebra and an 8th grader with dyscalculia who struggles with basic arithmetic. (I'd be sympathetic to "let's try our best", except that people often propose to try our best by declaring that first kid isn't actually ready.)
- actionfromafar 4mo ago
  But maybe they don't need to attend completely different schools, either.
  - SpicyLemonZest 4mo ago
    I agree, but I don't think that's what's being proposed. Many special ed programs today work on that principle: try to mainstream everyone in the classes they can be, run separate classes for the cases where that won't work, and everyone kinda understands that the participants in special ed aren't expected to be as successful in their educational pursuits.
- MattGrommes 4mo ago
  I've always thought we should get rid of grades altogether. There should be curricula that builds upward but if a kid masters 4th grade math, they should move on up right then, not wait for half a year to join 5th grade or have to retake 4th grade. Obviously there are operational challenges with this but it's got to be better than having bored advanced kids, the shame of being "left behind", etc. The kid with dyscalculia should be able to move at their own pace.
tracker1 4mo ago
Do you want to get rid of "advanced" course options and push every student into the same bucket?
- throwaway27448 4mo ago
  I'd be fine with that. It would provide an incentive to care about the bottom 75th percentile along with the spoiled rich kids
  - ajsnigrutin 4mo ago
    That's horrible. Smarter kids could get a better education, but they can't, because the teachers have to deal with illiterate kids that don't want to learn in the first place.
    - throwaway27448 4mo ago
      Maybe if we tried to educate all our kids instead of just the rich ones they wouldn't be illiterate
      - ajsnigrutin 4mo ago
        Some kids are just stupid, and it doesn't matter if they're rich or poor, there's nothing you can do about it. No need to keep everyone at the stupidest kids level.
        throwaway27448 4mo ago
        Half of them are in AP classes. let's not pretend our methods of sorting kids into castes makes any sense. Let's be honest: this is about money and attention, and you want to grind the poor kids into dust
        ajsnigrutin 4mo ago
        It's not about money, you're the one who just thinks about money. Maybe, by your logic, if someone gave you $100 now, you'd become smarter and look wider... but probably not. Sorting into better highschools and worse ones, and better classes and worse was done even back in my times, in what used to be yugoslavia, with communism, red stars and a dictator. You want better kids to excell as much as they can, and you want the stupid kids to at least learn to read and write for their boring communist factory jobs for the next 40 years, even if they never get to learn how to solve differential eqations... if you keep the kids together, the stupid ones still won't be able to do basic math and there would be no time left over for the smarter ones to learn more. There was no correlation between money and stupidity of kids. Some kids are smart enough to become engineers, some can barely read, there's no need for them to be in the same classroom.
Bratmon 4mo ago
> What sad place do you come from? The American public education system
bmn__ 4mo ago
> What sad place do you come from? Do you have an actual argument? Shaming tactics are ineffective on HN. Reality check: in most countries, if you made a public demand of effectively depriving the disabled of the proper care they want and deserve, they would regard you as an inhumane monster, and the education ministry would refer you to state prosecution for violating the constitution.
- throwaway27448 4mo ago
  > Shaming tactics are ineffective on HN. Regrettably. A place where money rules and brains die
tash9 4mo ago
As a parent of a kid that has special needs (at a minor level), there really is a separate set of skills needed to teach to these kids, as well as needing a better student teacher ratio. It made a huge difference for my kid.
sieabahlpark 4mo ago
[dead]

[flagged]

I just don't see how it's possible to construct a classroom environment that can simultaneously serve an 8th grader who's ready to start learning algebra and an 8th grader with dyscalculia who struggles with basic arithmetic. (I'd be sympathetic to "let's try our best", except that people often propose to try our best by declaring that first kid isn't actually ready.)

actionfromafar 4mo ago
But maybe they don't need to attend completely different schools, either.
- SpicyLemonZest 4mo ago
  I agree, but I don't think that's what's being proposed. Many special ed programs today work on that principle: try to mainstream everyone in the classes they can be, run separate classes for the cases where that won't work, and everyone kinda understands that the participants in special ed aren't expected to be as successful in their educational pursuits.
MattGrommes 4mo ago
I've always thought we should get rid of grades altogether. There should be curricula that builds upward but if a kid masters 4th grade math, they should move on up right then, not wait for half a year to join 5th grade or have to retake 4th grade. Obviously there are operational challenges with this but it's got to be better than having bored advanced kids, the shame of being "left behind", etc. The kid with dyscalculia should be able to move at their own pace.

tracker1 4mo ago

Do you want to get rid of "advanced" course options and push every student into the same bucket?

throwaway27448 4mo ago
I'd be fine with that. It would provide an incentive to care about the bottom 75th percentile along with the spoiled rich kids
- ajsnigrutin 4mo ago
  That's horrible. Smarter kids could get a better education, but they can't, because the teachers have to deal with illiterate kids that don't want to learn in the first place.
  - throwaway27448 4mo ago
    Maybe if we tried to educate all our kids instead of just the rich ones they wouldn't be illiterate
    - ajsnigrutin 4mo ago
      Some kids are just stupid, and it doesn't matter if they're rich or poor, there's nothing you can do about it. No need to keep everyone at the stupidest kids level.
      - throwaway27448 4mo ago
        Half of them are in AP classes. let's not pretend our methods of sorting kids into castes makes any sense. Let's be honest: this is about money and attention, and you want to grind the poor kids into dust
        ajsnigrutin 4mo ago
        It's not about money, you're the one who just thinks about money. Maybe, by your logic, if someone gave you $100 now, you'd become smarter and look wider... but probably not. Sorting into better highschools and worse ones, and better classes and worse was done even back in my times, in what used to be yugoslavia, with communism, red stars and a dictator. You want better kids to excell as much as they can, and you want the stupid kids to at least learn to read and write for their boring communist factory jobs for the next 40 years, even if they never get to learn how to solve differential eqations... if you keep the kids together, the stupid ones still won't be able to do basic math and there would be no time left over for the smarter ones to learn more. There was no correlation between money and stupidity of kids. Some kids are smart enough to become engineers, some can barely read, there's no need for them to be in the same classroom.

Bratmon 4mo ago

> What sad place do you come from? The American public education system

bmn__ 4mo ago

> What sad place do you come from? Do you have an actual argument? Shaming tactics are ineffective on HN. Reality check: in most countries, if you made a public demand of effectively depriving the disabled of the proper care they want and deserve, they would regard you as an inhumane monster, and the education ministry would refer you to state prosecution for violating the constitution.

throwaway27448 4mo ago
> Shaming tactics are ineffective on HN. Regrettably. A place where money rules and brains die

tash9 4mo ago

As a parent of a kid that has special needs (at a minor level), there really is a separate set of skills needed to teach to these kids, as well as needing a better student teacher ratio. It made a huge difference for my kid.

sieabahlpark 4mo ago

[dead]