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The Erin Brockovich page itself repeats the canard, on the front page, that these sites endanger ecosystems with their water consumption.
by tptacek 5mo ago
The Erin Brockovich page itself repeats the canard, on the front page, that these sites endanger ecosystems with their water consumption.
- kennywinker 5mo agoBecause they do.
- BenFranklin100 5mo agoNot inherently they don’t.
- kennywinker 5mo agoSure, but we don’t live in theory, we live in reality. Here in reality, they usually do.
- alterom 5mo agoInherently, they don't. The way they are operated, they do.
- cryptoegorophy 5mo agoIf water is the problem then why are we ignoring how much water beef needs? If we measure per person use it is hundreds times more than data center usage in comparison if we measure in per person consumption
- jmye 5mo agoIs this a serious comment? No one, in an environmental discussion, ignores how much water beef needs. It’s a central part of most vegan/vegetarian commentary. But this is a conversation about data centers. It would be great if you had the capability of staying even vaguely on topic instead of spinning off into “what about” bullshit.
- no-name-here 5mo ago1. Beef uses trillions of gallons of water per year, while data centers use billions - data center water use is nowhere remotely as much as beef. 2. Despite beef using far more water, is it getting anywhere remotely as much coverage as data center water use? 3. Senators like Sanders proposed stopping data center construction nationwide - have senators proposed similar nationwide bans for beef?
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- hunterpayne 5mo agoYou can go ahead and try to do that. Politically, to say its a DOA bill, is the understatement of the century. Also, water is renewable. This entire discussion is absurd and scientifically illiterate. There is a reason why nobody says, "party of science" anymore.
- kennywinker 5mo ago> Also, water is renewable. Tell that to the aquafers we’re emptying that won’t refill for generations. Water is renewable, but not necessarily in the right place or in timely manner. Using treated potable water to cool servers is just taxpayers subsidizing server cooling.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- etchalon 5mo agoCows don't steal people's jobs.
- DoctorOetker 5mo agoThe loss of income of people displaced by AI may end up eating less meat to survive.
- tptacek 5mo agoRight, see, again, giving away the game. It's not about the water (if it was, the objection would be easy to dismiss). Everything is downstream of a populist argument against AI progress.
- kennywinker 5mo agoBeef uses water, but you can eat beef. Ai uses water, but you can’t eat ai. Can you see the difference?
- tptacek 5mo agoNo, that logic does not make any sense whatsoever.
- no-name-here 5mo ago>> If water is the problem then why are we ignoring how much water beef needs? If we measure per person use it is hundreds times more than data center usage > Ai uses water, but you can’t eat ai. Almost all other foods don't use trillions of gallons of water like beef does. If someone's goal was to reduce water use, then shouldn't they be making at least as much noise about the non-necessary thing using far more water compared to data center's billions, not trillions, of gallons?
- cryptoegorophy 5mo agoPoint I am making is if we need to tackle the water issue then we need to do it via 80/20 rule, focus on the elephant in the room first. Data centers are a fly in a room with an elephant in this case.
- Gormo 5mo agoWas anyone proposing to eat AI? Was anyone proposing to do data processing with a pot roast? Why is the difference in what specific use case the consumers of these products are serving with them one that's relevant to the discussion?
- insane_dreamer 5mo agoyou quickly went from "AI water consumption isn't a problem", to "it's okay because cows consume water too"
- fc417fc802 5mo agoUnfortunately the entire situation is quite confusing because in addition to spanning a wide range of geographies and local utility situations there's also a wide variance in the care taken by the different players. For example I was surprised to learn of a recent ~300 MW buildout with entirely closed loop cooling (I had erroneously believed all cooling at that scale to be evaporative). Meanwhile we've got whatever xAI is doing with "mobile" generators.
- petre 5mo agoThe heat has to go somewhere and that is the environment. 300 MWh is enough energy to boil over 3k metric tons of water. That's 107 medium fuel trucks for perspective.
- hunterpayne 5mo agoLuckily AI data centers produce nowhere near that amount of heat. Remember the heat is waste and 300 MWh is the total draw. Some of that energy becomes heat. That ratio is somewhere like 100:1 though. Also, the waste water is only like 10F hotter than the intake. We build GW sized PP all the time and they will leak far more heat (as like on the order of 100x) than a 300 MWh AI data center. Thought there were supposed to be engineers on this site.
- dantillberg 5mo ago> Some of that energy becomes heat. I'm neither for nor against, but on the physics here: basically all of the energy input as electricity is transformed to heat leaving a datacenter. Only a tiny tiny fraction is emitted as radiation (eg floodlights outside or light in fiber optics) or as kinetic energy (air moving away from fans/vents). Computers are machines for turning electric energy into heat energy, plus some small useful side effects.
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- ajross 5mo agoI mean, the wastewater issues can be real in some environments. It's not a completely insane idea and like all things can be reasonably discussed and mitigated. It's not like these things have the ecological impact of steel foundries or fruit orchards, but they're not parks either. I do think the tech industry would be wise to do more outreach and less sneering, though. Freakouts about AI (which ultimately is what this is) aren't "rational" but they're eminently "reasonable". This isn't like electrification or aviation or the internet or whatnot (technologies that had clear, tangible benefits that everyone could see and understand), there is real discussion happening, by real experts, about essentially all non-physical labor being replaced! And... what do regular folks get from that? Talking to robots doesn't look like a quality of life improvement! Basically we in the upper stands here are having a "Let Them Eat Cake" moment, and we should stop. Things are getting ugly.
- tptacek 5mo agoI don't see it that way at all, but then I'm a housing activist, and I've seen fiercer opposition to a 4-story apartment building than to some of these data centers. People just like opposing development. It's very satisfying! When I see a protest over a golf course opening, I'll take data center water use concerns seriously. The data centers the industry wants are all going to get built. People are being hypnotized by concentrated minority interests in specific spots in the country. The only big picture thing about it is the left-populist sideshow it's created.
- no-name-here 5mo ago> The data centers the industry wants are all going to get built. That seems very untrue - multiple areas have already banned data centers, and senators like Bernie Sanders have proposed stopping data centers nationwide. This is just the next phase of NIMBY-ism. Alternatively, source that the "data centers the industry wants are all going to get built"? > I've seen fiercer opposition to a 4-story apartment building than to some of these data centers. I'm guessing you're referring to rather cherry-picked data? I've seen data center opposition making even the national news, but I don't recall any '4-story apartment buildings' opposition doing so? And senators like Bernie Sanders are proposing halting data centers nationwide - are there any similar proposals to similarly outlaw such housing construction nationwide? > People just like opposing development.… When I see a protest over a golf course opening, I'll take data center water use concerns seriously. Agreed.
- cratermoon 5mo ago[flagged]
- smegma2 5mo agoWhat ecosystem is it endangering? Is using the land a problem? Utah has 10.5 million acres of farmland that I would think has some impact on the ecosystem too, should we stop doing that too?
- cootsnuck 5mo agoHeat. 9 GW puts off a staggering amount of heat. In an already arid environment. What's the worst that can happen? https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2026/05/07/utahs-data-center-could-create/ https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2026/05/07/utahs-dat...
- mmmeff 5mo agoYou're right, we should build it in a third world country instead!
- cootsnuck 5mo agoI'd argue we don't need to build a 9 GW data center anywhere. But that's just me.
- hparadiz 5mo agoThis new flavor of NIMBY is pretty funny.
- wallst07 5mo agoThere is very little we do that is "needed" if you break it down to actual necessities (basic needs pyramid).
- Gormo 5mo agoWhy do you presume yourself to be part of the "we" in question? This seems like it's a case of other people using their own resources to do things that don't involve you; what's your stake in it? And given your correct acknowledgement that it's "just you" expressing subjective normative opinions about things you're not involved in, what valid basis do you have for assessing what anyone who is involved actually needs?
- SilverElfin 5mo agoIs it a canard? In Florida a data center drew water in an unauthorized way and the surrounding community had issues with brown water and had to go into water rationing. Even if datacenters are highly efficient, if the water supply is strained, you can pollute people’s supply by drawing wells down too far and things like that.
- hparadiz 5mo agoThis happened to me in the middle of the city of Philadelphia when construction of a new apartment building caused a water main collapse. Took them three days to repair. It wasn't anyone's fault. The pipe was simply very old. My water had soil in it and basically I had to run the water until all the soil was flushed. Could have been a lot worse and thankfully I was renting. A lot of these situations are simple construction issues and old pipes. It's not like a data center is pushing gray water into the system. When AOC is waving a jar of brown water in congress she's being disengenous. Just like the killed Amazon office in NYC it's just gonna kill jobs.
- jml7c5 5mo ago>In Florida a data center drew water in an unauthorized way and the surrounding community had issues with brown water and had to go into water rationing. Can you cite a source for this? I can't find it anywhere.
- culi 5mo ago[dead]
- SilverElfin 5mo agoThe other comment is correct. I meant QTS in Georgia
- jml7c5 5mo agoI thought that might be what you were referring to. As far as I know the issues there were construction causing turbidity, and water used for construction accidentally going metered. Neither are really relevant to it being a datacenter. Apparently it'll use closed-loop cooling, so it's not going to draw much water in operation either. It does seem like a canard. https://dustinrhone.substack.com/p/on-fayetteville-georgia https://dustinrhone.substack.com/p/on-fayetteville-georgia
- culi 5mo agoData centers are massive consumers of water. There are closed loop designs that technically use less water but they: A) Make up less than 10% of data centers; B) Cost much more upfront; C) Require massive investment in waste water treatment. These designs still need to "bleed the lines" once a month and get rid of sludge that is now full of anti-freeze, anti-fungals, and PFAS It is not at all inaccurate to say data center consumption of water is a huge concern. Too many on HN seem to be puppetting industry lines without realizing it. Closed loop systems are still uncommon and come with their own problems.
- expedition32 5mo agoYep companies are cheap bastards. Sure you can make environmentally sound data centers. Those are not the ones they want to build. Trump has been neutering the EPA for a reason. I don't know if HN is really naive or just pretending.
- tptacek 5mo agoWe know how much water all data centers put together consume, and it's not even close to what we spend on golf courses.
- culi 5mo agoYes golf courses use an absurd amount of water. About 2.5b/day. Data centers are about 450m/day so about a fifth of that. But golf courses are about 2.1 to 2.2 million acres while data centers are between between 340,000 and 840,000. But I agree with your point. We should be closing both down. They are both water guzzlers and polluting our environment
- tptacek 5mo agoWait, are you thinking this through carefully? Because your mitigating issue for golf courses, that they also use way more land, makes them worse, not better.
- 5mo ago