4 ms·

I am immediately reminded of my favourite quote from the Jewish book Pirkei Avot (‘Ethics of the Fathers’): > It is not your duty to finish the work [of perfec

by bradrn 5mo ago

I am immediately reminded of my favourite quote from the Jewish book Pirkei Avot (‘Ethics of the Fathers’): > It is not your duty to finish the work [of perfecting the world], but neither are you at liberty to neglect it. [https://www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.2.16?ven=english|Mishnah_Yomit_by_Dr._Joshua_Kulp&lang=bi https://www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.2.16?ven=english|Mishnah...]

jfengel 5mo ago
I grew up Jewish. I have lost my faith, but that quote is still fundamental to how I see my place in the world.
- kuerbel 5mo ago
  I'm an atheist but I really like: >Therefore man was created single in the world to teach that for anybody who destroys a single life it is counted as if he destroyed an entire world, and for anybody who preserves a single life it is counted as if he preserved an entire world. (Directly from the Mishna in the Talmud Yerushalmi)
- michaelchisari 5mo ago
  I'm not Muslim (an agnostic Catholic if anything) but I love the Hadith | If the final hour comes while one of you has a seed in his hand, if he can plant it before it takes place, let him do so. I take it to mean it is never too late to do something good, even (or especially) something you will never benefit from.
  - lukan 5mo ago
    To me that never made sense. If the world is really ending, there is no point in planting a tree. It only made sense as in, you never know if the world is really ending. So assume it is not and do the right thing, even if things seem dark. Everything we do matters. Always.
    - deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
    - michaelchisari 5mo ago
      | Everything we do matters. Always. Yeah you get it.
- jimbokun 5mo ago
  So maybe you didn’t lose your faith as thoroughly as you suppose.
weitendorf 5mo ago
A formative moment for me was reading Richard Stallman's writing on the GNU website and seeing him quote [0] Rabbi Hillel [1]: "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" This inspired me to seek out more about Rabbinic Judaism and its theology more deeply, and I found the language and analogies concerning the idea of "repairing the world" (which you referenced, but which I think at first glance aren't necessarily something most people would identify as a specific core doctrinal theme) particularly inspiring [2]. To me it's frankly beautiful and something I recommend anybody interested in metaphysics or ethics/morality looking into; it also ties into the Kabbalah. IMO this aspect of Jewish theology deserves to be more widely known because it's something all of us can learn from. [0] https://www.gnu.org/gnu/thegnuproject.html https://www.gnu.org/gnu/thegnuproject.html [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikkun_olam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikkun_olam
jimbokun 5mo ago
EVERY progressive needs to read this quote. It’s my biggest frustration with so many expressing progressive beliefs. I’ve lost count of the times a progressive expresses unwillingness to address problems at a smaller, local or personal level. Instead there is a demand to fix everything forever and at once at the highest levels, or do nothing at all.
- consumer451 5mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism The world would likely be a better place if people of all political stripes could internalize this concept.
  - pdonis 5mo ago
    But how do you judge the consequences? Either you have an infinite regress, or you end up declaring by fiat that some things are good and others are bad, just because. Which is...deontology--what "consequentialism" was supposed to be opposed to and an improvement on. The concept that I think the world would be a better place if people of all political stripes could internalize is that nobody knows for sure what is good. We all have to make moral and ethical choices with incomplete knowledge. So when people make choices that you disagree with, the default presumption, at least, should not be that they're evil, but that they have different information than you do. That information can include different judgments about what is good and what is not. There is no single moral or ethical system that has all the right answers--including "consequentialism".
    - khafra 5mo ago
      Neither Deontology, Virtue Ethics, nor Consequentialism describe the ends; only the tradeoffs. You could have a deontological commitment to never giving a sucker an even break. You could have a virtue ethicist who considers the Joker a paragon--I think some of them are in politics. Consequentialism just says that deontology is too myopic, and locally following the correct rules is sometimes less good than maximizing long-term gains. Consequentialism is ceteris paribus correct; but ceteris is often not paribus for humans, so pure consequentialism has a lot of footguns in it.

by bradrn 5mo ago

jfengel 5mo ago

I grew up Jewish. I have lost my faith, but that quote is still fundamental to how I see my place in the world.

kuerbel 5mo ago
I'm an atheist but I really like: >Therefore man was created single in the world to teach that for anybody who destroys a single life it is counted as if he destroyed an entire world, and for anybody who preserves a single life it is counted as if he preserved an entire world. (Directly from the Mishna in the Talmud Yerushalmi)
michaelchisari 5mo ago
I'm not Muslim (an agnostic Catholic if anything) but I love the Hadith | If the final hour comes while one of you has a seed in his hand, if he can plant it before it takes place, let him do so. I take it to mean it is never too late to do something good, even (or especially) something you will never benefit from.
- lukan 5mo ago
  To me that never made sense. If the world is really ending, there is no point in planting a tree. It only made sense as in, you never know if the world is really ending. So assume it is not and do the right thing, even if things seem dark. Everything we do matters. Always.
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
  - michaelchisari 5mo ago
    | Everything we do matters. Always. Yeah you get it.
jimbokun 5mo ago
So maybe you didn’t lose your faith as thoroughly as you suppose.

weitendorf 5mo ago

A formative moment for me was reading Richard Stallman's writing on the GNU website and seeing him quote [0] Rabbi Hillel [1]: "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" This inspired me to seek out more about Rabbinic Judaism and its theology more deeply, and I found the language and analogies concerning the idea of "repairing the world" (which you referenced, but which I think at first glance aren't necessarily something most people would identify as a specific core doctrinal theme) particularly inspiring [2]. To me it's frankly beautiful and something I recommend anybody interested in metaphysics or ethics/morality looking into; it also ties into the Kabbalah. IMO this aspect of Jewish theology deserves to be more widely known because it's something all of us can learn from. [0] https://www.gnu.org/gnu/thegnuproject.html https://www.gnu.org/gnu/thegnuproject.html [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikkun_olam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikkun_olam

jimbokun 5mo ago

EVERY progressive needs to read this quote. It’s my biggest frustration with so many expressing progressive beliefs. I’ve lost count of the times a progressive expresses unwillingness to address problems at a smaller, local or personal level. Instead there is a demand to fix everything forever and at once at the highest levels, or do nothing at all.

consumer451 5mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism The world would likely be a better place if people of all political stripes could internalize this concept.
- pdonis 5mo ago
  But how do you judge the consequences? Either you have an infinite regress, or you end up declaring by fiat that some things are good and others are bad, just because. Which is...deontology--what "consequentialism" was supposed to be opposed to and an improvement on. The concept that I think the world would be a better place if people of all political stripes could internalize is that nobody knows for sure what is good. We all have to make moral and ethical choices with incomplete knowledge. So when people make choices that you disagree with, the default presumption, at least, should not be that they're evil, but that they have different information than you do. That information can include different judgments about what is good and what is not. There is no single moral or ethical system that has all the right answers--including "consequentialism".
  - khafra 5mo ago
    Neither Deontology, Virtue Ethics, nor Consequentialism describe the ends; only the tradeoffs. You could have a deontological commitment to never giving a sucker an even break. You could have a virtue ethicist who considers the Joker a paragon--I think some of them are in politics. Consequentialism just says that deontology is too myopic, and locally following the correct rules is sometimes less good than maximizing long-term gains. Consequentialism is ceteris paribus correct; but ceteris is often not paribus for humans, so pure consequentialism has a lot of footguns in it.