29 ms·

What Gets Kept

68 points by lermontov 5mo ago

ouked 5mo ago
https://archive.ph/2026.05.23-110154/https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-weekend-essay/what-jack-kerouac-left-behind https://archive.ph/2026.05.23-110154/https://www.newyorker.c...
ktallett 5mo ago
Jack Kerouac has always felt like a gateway for early 20 year old guys looking to be seen as literary explorers. Similar to how Orwell seems to be commonly found around your mid teens (15-17) and many are seem reading 1984. I guess it's almost a right of passage. I know many will say those are stereotypes or tropes but having worked with people from 15-28 over the course of many years in a range of roles, it's very much an observation at this point. Orwell especially I suspect comes from required reading.
- y-curious 5mo ago
  OTR is also required reading in the US. I remember a lot of my peers being very inspired by living that sort of beat life, although none of them actualized on that
- iammjm 5mo ago
  Orwell is an absolute master of both fiction and non-fiction. This dude lived and got dirty on purpose just to be able to report about it: far-away colonies, lower-class slums, foreign wars against fascists; in the end it even cost him his life. I am SO happy he is an obligatory lecture in many schools and countries; it's probably the best thing kids could be reading. He's been my hero ever since I've read him, and still is now even as I am approaching 40. And I've read many other good things too, but rarely something comes close to Orwell's dedication and authenticity. The man speaks universal truths in a way that sticks. If you only know 1984 and Animal Farm, do yourself a favor and check out The Road to Wigan Pier, for example.
  - bloak 5mo ago
    Yes! "Of the five pay-checks I mentioned above, no less than three are rubber-stamped with the words 'death stoppage'. When a miner is killed at work it is usual for the other miners to make up a subscription, generally of a shilling each, for his widow, and this is collected by the colliery company and automatically deducted from their wages. The significant detail here is the rubber stamp."
  - ktallett 5mo ago
    I've read all his works and I was a big fan. But I do still believe it does attract a specific age. Orwell had some excellent work, and I didn't insult him. However I am wary of romanticising a way of life. His early works were based on his real experiences but I can't promote essays or books based on a brief entrance into that life for research as it's not quite the same. I believe all forms of media are best when they are based on your real lived experience and not roleplayed. Especially music and literature. Oasis are a particularly great example of this; you can't really write songs about a life of poverty and hope when you no longer live that.
    - AdamN 5mo ago
      In Down and Out in Paris and London he is very clear that he comes from some privilege and also that he actually lived the experiences he wrote about. He can't write it from the pov of somebody doing it for decades with no other option but he is explicit that he can't do that.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- AdamN 5mo ago
  1984 in particular is well worth a read right now. I read it at age 47 and it's not in the same vein as On the Road.
fergie 5mo ago
Can't not read stuff like this. Fascinating.
- tclancy 5mo ago
  Yeah, this led me to the author’s other pieces in The New Yorker this weekend. I generally dislike short stories but really liked both of those. Both her fiction and non-fiction prose style appeal to me. I think there’s a leanness to it while still conveying what you need to know that I love.
huhkerrf 5mo ago
Maybe it's because I never had my On the Road phase, but this review on Kerouac I always found really strong: > On the Road is a terrible book about terrible people. Jack Kerouac and his terrible friends drive across the US about seven zillion times for no particular reason, getting in car accidents and stealing stuff and screwing women whom they promise to marry and then don’t. > Jack Kerouac’s relationship with Dean can best be described as “enabler”. He rarely commits any great misdeeds himself. He’s just along for the ride [usually literally, generally in flagrant contravention of all applicable traffic laws] with Dean, watching him destroy people’s lives, doing nothing about it, and then going into rhapsodies about how free-spirited and unencumbered and holy and mad and visionary it all is. https://readscottalexander.com/posts/ssc-book-review-on-the-road https://readscottalexander.com/posts/ssc-book-review-on-the-...
- cassepipe 5mo ago
  I have had my on the road phase when I was around 18 when I read the book but I did not vibe at all with it. I found all the characters highly unlikeable and couldn't help to think that I much better friends, even my wildest ones. But I wasn't wild enough I guess because I actually managed to finish the book, like a well behaved schoolboy.
  - cassepipe 5mo ago
    Also it's terribly boring
- keiferski 5mo ago
  It must be so exhausting to go through life only enjoying things that match one’s up-to-the-minute current moral views. I guess all biographies of influential people are basically out, as being successful in 1000BC or 1500AD required one to do things considered unethical today. It feels a bit like religious fundamentalism with a different veneer.
  - saagarjha 5mo ago
    Ok but you do realize that he was alive in the 1900s, not 1000 BC.
torben-friis 5mo ago
I wonder why Keruoac-like personalities are so magnetic, I never felt it click. Maybe it's that people wish they would dare share that freedom? Escapism from boredom? The lifestyle does not at all feel pleasant, at least to me. I don't mean it in the sense of regular comfort; these lines describe a tortured man more than they do a 'happy beggar'. And then there's the chaos the trainwreck leaves behind. I don't believe a man that's truly passionate would have so little empathy for others. If anything, it feels egotistical and self infatuated.
- ikr678 5mo ago
  I find the magnetism from these types of people is seeing someone violate your social norms (usually for gain) in ways you had never considered, and getting a tantalising glimpse of what might be possible if only you weren't so timid/proper/responsible/considerate/whatever.
  - sfRattan 5mo ago
    > getting a tantalising glimpse of what might be possible if only you weren't so timid/proper/responsible/considerate/whatever. I think that glimpse is only tantalizing, and Kerouac's types only magnetic, when the reader lacks a well developed theory of mind for other humans and only obeys laws and social conventions for fear of punishment and ostracism. If you can empathize with others, shedding that capacity is more a strange nightmare than it is desirable. On the other hand, if you are fearful of social and legal consequences, freedom from that fear is absolutely a seductive fantasy.

68 points by lermontov 5mo ago

ouked 5mo ago

https://archive.ph/2026.05.23-110154/https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-weekend-essay/what-jack-kerouac-left-behind https://archive.ph/2026.05.23-110154/https://www.newyorker.c...

ktallett 5mo ago

Jack Kerouac has always felt like a gateway for early 20 year old guys looking to be seen as literary explorers. Similar to how Orwell seems to be commonly found around your mid teens (15-17) and many are seem reading 1984. I guess it's almost a right of passage. I know many will say those are stereotypes or tropes but having worked with people from 15-28 over the course of many years in a range of roles, it's very much an observation at this point. Orwell especially I suspect comes from required reading.

y-curious 5mo ago
OTR is also required reading in the US. I remember a lot of my peers being very inspired by living that sort of beat life, although none of them actualized on that
iammjm 5mo ago
Orwell is an absolute master of both fiction and non-fiction. This dude lived and got dirty on purpose just to be able to report about it: far-away colonies, lower-class slums, foreign wars against fascists; in the end it even cost him his life. I am SO happy he is an obligatory lecture in many schools and countries; it's probably the best thing kids could be reading. He's been my hero ever since I've read him, and still is now even as I am approaching 40. And I've read many other good things too, but rarely something comes close to Orwell's dedication and authenticity. The man speaks universal truths in a way that sticks. If you only know 1984 and Animal Farm, do yourself a favor and check out The Road to Wigan Pier, for example.
- bloak 5mo ago
  Yes! "Of the five pay-checks I mentioned above, no less than three are rubber-stamped with the words 'death stoppage'. When a miner is killed at work it is usual for the other miners to make up a subscription, generally of a shilling each, for his widow, and this is collected by the colliery company and automatically deducted from their wages. The significant detail here is the rubber stamp."
- ktallett 5mo ago
  I've read all his works and I was a big fan. But I do still believe it does attract a specific age. Orwell had some excellent work, and I didn't insult him. However I am wary of romanticising a way of life. His early works were based on his real experiences but I can't promote essays or books based on a brief entrance into that life for research as it's not quite the same. I believe all forms of media are best when they are based on your real lived experience and not roleplayed. Especially music and literature. Oasis are a particularly great example of this; you can't really write songs about a life of poverty and hope when you no longer live that.
  - AdamN 5mo ago
    In Down and Out in Paris and London he is very clear that he comes from some privilege and also that he actually lived the experiences he wrote about. He can't write it from the pov of somebody doing it for decades with no other option but he is explicit that he can't do that.
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
AdamN 5mo ago
1984 in particular is well worth a read right now. I read it at age 47 and it's not in the same vein as On the Road.

fergie 5mo ago

Can't not read stuff like this. Fascinating.

tclancy 5mo ago
Yeah, this led me to the author’s other pieces in The New Yorker this weekend. I generally dislike short stories but really liked both of those. Both her fiction and non-fiction prose style appeal to me. I think there’s a leanness to it while still conveying what you need to know that I love.

huhkerrf 5mo ago

Maybe it's because I never had my On the Road phase, but this review on Kerouac I always found really strong: > On the Road is a terrible book about terrible people. Jack Kerouac and his terrible friends drive across the US about seven zillion times for no particular reason, getting in car accidents and stealing stuff and screwing women whom they promise to marry and then don’t. > Jack Kerouac’s relationship with Dean can best be described as “enabler”. He rarely commits any great misdeeds himself. He’s just along for the ride [usually literally, generally in flagrant contravention of all applicable traffic laws] with Dean, watching him destroy people’s lives, doing nothing about it, and then going into rhapsodies about how free-spirited and unencumbered and holy and mad and visionary it all is. https://readscottalexander.com/posts/ssc-book-review-on-the-road https://readscottalexander.com/posts/ssc-book-review-on-the-...

cassepipe 5mo ago
I have had my on the road phase when I was around 18 when I read the book but I did not vibe at all with it. I found all the characters highly unlikeable and couldn't help to think that I much better friends, even my wildest ones. But I wasn't wild enough I guess because I actually managed to finish the book, like a well behaved schoolboy.
- cassepipe 5mo ago
  Also it's terribly boring
keiferski 5mo ago
It must be so exhausting to go through life only enjoying things that match one’s up-to-the-minute current moral views. I guess all biographies of influential people are basically out, as being successful in 1000BC or 1500AD required one to do things considered unethical today. It feels a bit like religious fundamentalism with a different veneer.
- saagarjha 5mo ago
  Ok but you do realize that he was alive in the 1900s, not 1000 BC.

torben-friis 5mo ago

I wonder why Keruoac-like personalities are so magnetic, I never felt it click. Maybe it's that people wish they would dare share that freedom? Escapism from boredom? The lifestyle does not at all feel pleasant, at least to me. I don't mean it in the sense of regular comfort; these lines describe a tortured man more than they do a 'happy beggar'. And then there's the chaos the trainwreck leaves behind. I don't believe a man that's truly passionate would have so little empathy for others. If anything, it feels egotistical and self infatuated.

ikr678 5mo ago
I find the magnetism from these types of people is seeing someone violate your social norms (usually for gain) in ways you had never considered, and getting a tantalising glimpse of what might be possible if only you weren't so timid/proper/responsible/considerate/whatever.
- sfRattan 5mo ago
  > getting a tantalising glimpse of what might be possible if only you weren't so timid/proper/responsible/considerate/whatever. I think that glimpse is only tantalizing, and Kerouac's types only magnetic, when the reader lacks a well developed theory of mind for other humans and only obeys laws and social conventions for fear of punishment and ostracism. If you can empathize with others, shedding that capacity is more a strange nightmare than it is desirable. On the other hand, if you are fearful of social and legal consequences, freedom from that fear is absolutely a seductive fantasy.