6 ms·

Time-lapse video: How Japan handles long shopping lines

120 points by hirokitakeuchi 14y ago

brazzy 14y ago
It certainly looks a lot more interesting from up high than from inside those blocks of people. But it's not really a queue, more a buffer that prevents the entrances to the exhibition halls to be overwhelmed at opening time (with possibly lethal consequences). There are some much more queue-like arrangements inside - I remember rope barriers guiding people in a spiral pattern towards an escalator representing a bottleneck. And the once you're in the actual exhibition halls, there are streams of people moving into various directions, but so crammed that you have to navigate by finding the stream that eventually reaches the place you want to go to. Ah yes, here's some photos: http://imgur.com/a/E6Aw6 http://imgur.com/a/E6Aw6
jcr 14y ago
In the TFA is linked the Japanese version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwfZZG4Q_FE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwfZZG4Q_FE There is also an Enlgish version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ermNqkUUiJw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ermNqkUUiJw The caption of the English version gives some useful details on how the video was created: The footage, which was compiled from photographs taken at intervals of 5 seconds, was filmed on the last day of Comiket from around1:30 AM to 2:30 PM from the balcony of the nearby Washington Hotel.
dhughes 14y ago
I like at the end some sort of busker thing going on.
tomjen3 14y ago
That is not really handling long lines -- that is people standing nicely in queues. What would be interesting would be to compare how long these people stood in line to how long they would stand in western systems. Given that western people are famously impatient (and that shopping centers know this), I am guessing that ours are better optimized. But, yeah, its a strange feeling looking down on all those humans -- almost as if you were looking at a bunch of really well trained sheep.
- gwern 14y ago
  > What would be interesting would be to compare how long these people stood in line to how long they would stand in western systems. Given that western people are famously impatient (and that shopping centers know this), I am guessing that ours are better optimized. It's an apples and oranges thing: this is of Comiket, so everyone involved has different motivations from shoppers desperate to grab the doorbusters. You'd have to compare to another convention or event.
  - neruson 14y ago
    It's not that different, as Comiket is first and foremost a marketplace. The popular publishing circles sell out quickly, so people are motivated to line up early in order to get what they want. Their FAQ mentions that if you come on the first train, you'll have to wait for 5 hours, but if you come at the opening time of 10:00, you only have to wait approximately one hour. The fact that people are willing to spend those extra 4 hours to get in early seems to indicate that it provides an advantage to be one of the first. Incidentally, they expressly prohibit waiting in line overnight. I bet plenty of people would do so if they could.
    - Danieru 14y ago
      > I bet plenty of people would do so if they could. They still do. Every year its a big issue and the organization committee makes a press release. The night before the most recent Comiket there were reports of several thousand overnighters. The 徹夜組 (overnight group) cause so much trouble and garbage that it endangers Comiket's hosting arraignment, or so is claimed.
      - mguillemot 14y ago
        It's interesting to note that to prevent this behaviour in such crowded events, they still organize the overnight groups in lines, and they are usually allowed to enter the premises only AFTER a few thousand of the ones who respected the rules have done so. So it's really a matter of hiding well enough from the staff until the "legal" hour of lining and find the first "real" line, if you want to go in first.
Evbn 14y ago
Looks like a line for a ride at Disney World, or cars at ferry terminal. Don't like the chauvinism in the title. It is one location in Japan, not "how Japan does it".
- veidr 14y ago
  OK, you are right, but this really is how Japan does it. See po's answers above for more background.
lampe 14y ago
i think this is a very cool system and why western lines are better? i dont get this? or was this sarcastic? i would wish that more people her would be so patient like they are! and i dont stand in lines i order it on the internet ;)
po 14y ago
I've been living in Japan for a few years now and I think maybe people are missing one of the key features of this video. It's easy to look at a video like this and attribute it to stereotypes of the behavior of crowds in different countries. I think the overlooked thing is that lines in Japan are very often actively managed. If a new line opens up, very often there is a person standing by the ropes guiding people to the new opening in a fair way. If the ropes are too long (causing you to go back and forth unnaturally) there is a peson there who removes them and creates a short-cut. Similarly, they will add ropes or move the line into a better position or manage a 'cut' in the line when it passes in front of a doorway or path (like in the video). This puts you at ease since you know there is an authority figure watching out for fairness. Its no longer a "me first" attitude. It also trains people on how to behave when in a line. When that authority figure is not there, people still adopt the conventions of when they are. In summary, this kind of behavior is taught and socialized into people because it's valued. In America (where I'm from) it is considered inefficent to have a person standing by a line telling people what to do. People are expected to self-manage. This also means when you're waiting on a line in Japan, you're not really thinking about the line very much. You're free to talk, read or daydream without worrying about your place in line.
- patio11 14y ago
  Yeah, if you pay attention to the video you can spot the fire cones and staffers (there are approximately a dozen on hand each time one of the lines move, just at the front of it).
- rm999 14y ago
  I've never been to Japan so I may not fully understand what you mean, but cutting in line isn't at all acceptable in the USA. The Black Friday riots that get press attention this time of the year are an exception, and usually involve a rare mix of retail incompetence and customer malice. As far as managing lines of a few thousand people, I've seen many examples of everything functioning totally fine in the USA.
  - po 14y ago
    I agree it's not acceptable in the US and there are plenty of times/places where huge lines work well. I'm not making any statement about black friday Free-for-all footage which in my opinion is rare and usually caused by bad policies chosen by store staff. My point is more about who is in charge of enforcing the social norms. In the US, it is up to the people in line to enforce the norms with other people in line. In Japan, there is usually an 'authority figure' nearby. This person may have no legal authority (other than a store uniform) but people defer to them. Huge lines can work well in any country. If they do, they are usually well attended by staff. An exception to this would be theme parks where extremely rigid pathways and geography of the line as well as distractions prevent any kind of disputes between line-waiters. Some US stores like Whole Foods use a single line and have staff/technology to help enforce fairness. In Japan, even small lines of 3-5 people at banks or stores are well-attended by staff who have an eye for fairness. This small-line behavior then tends to leak into situations where there is no attendant staff. Line-waiting behavior is one of the most fascinating things to look at when travelling. It teaches you a lot about your own culture. Other places where the culture caught me off guard were Russia, Italy, China and India.

120 points by hirokitakeuchi 14y ago

It certainly looks a lot more interesting from up high than from inside those blocks of people. But it's not really a queue, more a buffer that prevents the entrances to the exhibition halls to be overwhelmed at opening time (with possibly lethal consequences). There are some much more queue-like arrangements inside - I remember rope barriers guiding people in a spiral pattern towards an escalator representing a bottleneck. And the once you're in the actual exhibition halls, there are streams of people moving into various directions, but so crammed that you have to navigate by finding the stream that eventually reaches the place you want to go to. Ah yes, here's some photos: http://imgur.com/a/E6Aw6 http://imgur.com/a/E6Aw6

jcr 14y ago

In the TFA is linked the Japanese version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwfZZG4Q_FE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwfZZG4Q_FE There is also an Enlgish version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ermNqkUUiJw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ermNqkUUiJw The caption of the English version gives some useful details on how the video was created: The footage, which was compiled from photographs taken at intervals of 5 seconds, was filmed on the last day of Comiket from around1:30 AM to 2:30 PM from the balcony of the nearby Washington Hotel.

dhughes 14y ago

I like at the end some sort of busker thing going on.

tomjen3 14y ago

That is not really handling long lines -- that is people standing nicely in queues. What would be interesting would be to compare how long these people stood in line to how long they would stand in western systems. Given that western people are famously impatient (and that shopping centers know this), I am guessing that ours are better optimized. But, yeah, its a strange feeling looking down on all those humans -- almost as if you were looking at a bunch of really well trained sheep.

gwern 14y ago
> What would be interesting would be to compare how long these people stood in line to how long they would stand in western systems. Given that western people are famously impatient (and that shopping centers know this), I am guessing that ours are better optimized. It's an apples and oranges thing: this is of Comiket, so everyone involved has different motivations from shoppers desperate to grab the doorbusters. You'd have to compare to another convention or event.
- neruson 14y ago
  It's not that different, as Comiket is first and foremost a marketplace. The popular publishing circles sell out quickly, so people are motivated to line up early in order to get what they want. Their FAQ mentions that if you come on the first train, you'll have to wait for 5 hours, but if you come at the opening time of 10:00, you only have to wait approximately one hour. The fact that people are willing to spend those extra 4 hours to get in early seems to indicate that it provides an advantage to be one of the first. Incidentally, they expressly prohibit waiting in line overnight. I bet plenty of people would do so if they could.
  - Danieru 14y ago
    > I bet plenty of people would do so if they could. They still do. Every year its a big issue and the organization committee makes a press release. The night before the most recent Comiket there were reports of several thousand overnighters. The 徹夜組 (overnight group) cause so much trouble and garbage that it endangers Comiket's hosting arraignment, or so is claimed.
    - mguillemot 14y ago
      It's interesting to note that to prevent this behaviour in such crowded events, they still organize the overnight groups in lines, and they are usually allowed to enter the premises only AFTER a few thousand of the ones who respected the rules have done so. So it's really a matter of hiding well enough from the staff until the "legal" hour of lining and find the first "real" line, if you want to go in first.

Evbn 14y ago

Looks like a line for a ride at Disney World, or cars at ferry terminal. Don't like the chauvinism in the title. It is one location in Japan, not "how Japan does it".

veidr 14y ago
OK, you are right, but this really is how Japan does it. See po's answers above for more background.

lampe 14y ago

i think this is a very cool system and why western lines are better? i dont get this? or was this sarcastic? i would wish that more people her would be so patient like they are! and i dont stand in lines i order it on the internet ;)

po 14y ago

I've been living in Japan for a few years now and I think maybe people are missing one of the key features of this video. It's easy to look at a video like this and attribute it to stereotypes of the behavior of crowds in different countries. I think the overlooked thing is that lines in Japan are very often actively managed. If a new line opens up, very often there is a person standing by the ropes guiding people to the new opening in a fair way. If the ropes are too long (causing you to go back and forth unnaturally) there is a peson there who removes them and creates a short-cut. Similarly, they will add ropes or move the line into a better position or manage a 'cut' in the line when it passes in front of a doorway or path (like in the video). This puts you at ease since you know there is an authority figure watching out for fairness. Its no longer a "me first" attitude. It also trains people on how to behave when in a line. When that authority figure is not there, people still adopt the conventions of when they are. In summary, this kind of behavior is taught and socialized into people because it's valued. In America (where I'm from) it is considered inefficent to have a person standing by a line telling people what to do. People are expected to self-manage. This also means when you're waiting on a line in Japan, you're not really thinking about the line very much. You're free to talk, read or daydream without worrying about your place in line.

patio11 14y ago
Yeah, if you pay attention to the video you can spot the fire cones and staffers (there are approximately a dozen on hand each time one of the lines move, just at the front of it).
rm999 14y ago
I've never been to Japan so I may not fully understand what you mean, but cutting in line isn't at all acceptable in the USA. The Black Friday riots that get press attention this time of the year are an exception, and usually involve a rare mix of retail incompetence and customer malice. As far as managing lines of a few thousand people, I've seen many examples of everything functioning totally fine in the USA.
- po 14y ago
  I agree it's not acceptable in the US and there are plenty of times/places where huge lines work well. I'm not making any statement about black friday Free-for-all footage which in my opinion is rare and usually caused by bad policies chosen by store staff. My point is more about who is in charge of enforcing the social norms. In the US, it is up to the people in line to enforce the norms with other people in line. In Japan, there is usually an 'authority figure' nearby. This person may have no legal authority (other than a store uniform) but people defer to them. Huge lines can work well in any country. If they do, they are usually well attended by staff. An exception to this would be theme parks where extremely rigid pathways and geography of the line as well as distractions prevent any kind of disputes between line-waiters. Some US stores like Whole Foods use a single line and have staff/technology to help enforce fairness. In Japan, even small lines of 3-5 people at banks or stores are well-attended by staff who have an eye for fairness. This small-line behavior then tends to leak into situations where there is no attendant staff. Line-waiting behavior is one of the most fascinating things to look at when travelling. It teaches you a lot about your own culture. Other places where the culture caught me off guard were Russia, Italy, China and India.