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Spanish court declines to fine NordVPN over LaLiga piracy blocking order
- swiftcoder 5mo ago> “Inside Spain, the consequences of indiscriminate IP blocking have become almost impossible to ignore,” NordVPN writes Too fucking right. It is beyond tiresome to fire up the laptop and wonder whether I'll need a VPN to access GitHub today
- embedding-shape 5mo agoWhen the blocks happen, does it take GitHub with it for you? I'm on Vodafone (in Spain) and it's just a few Cloudflare IPs that get blocked during the matches, never had GitHub unavailable, as Microsoft doesn't use Cloudflare for GitHub, AFAIK.
- swiftcoder 5mo agoCloudflare seems to be the most common victim, but I've seen Fastly get banned out as well (which seems to be what GitHub uses as their CDN in the EU)
- embedding-shape 5mo agoAFAIK, it's literally exclusively Cloudflare for me, never seen anything else (IP) banned, just the good old DNS-based blocking for some other crap, but maybe it's because of my ISP. What ISP are you on? They all seem to be responding and doing this differently.
- swiftcoder 5mo agoMovistar, masmovil, and orange. From what I can tell they all tend to implement slightly different overlapping blocks. I wouldn't be nearly as annoyed if the blocking actually worked - my neighbour happily watches pirate futbol streams over the internal while my dev tools get blocked
- embedding-shape 5mo agoHuh, where is the court order about the Fastly stuff? Also funny that the only major one you seem to be missing is Vodafone, which is the ISP I have, and Fastly never been blocked here, although Vodafone is more than eager to add things to their block-list. > while my dev tools get blocked What dev tools are you talking about here, that depends on remote Cloudflare IPs? Maybe I got used to the overall crap internet service here in Spain, but I couldn't imagine basing anything I need for my day-to-day job on something remote/on the internet that I couldn't use just because I wasn't online.
- swiftcoder 5mo ago> What dev tools are you talking about here, that depends on remote Cloudflare IPs? It's never just been Cloudflare. There's even a blogpost from Vercel[1] about it when they had their exit nodes banned during the biggest outage last year: > This issue isn’t isolated to Vercel. Cloudflare, GitHub Pages, and BunnyCDN are also affected. [1] https://vercel.com/blog/update-on-spain-and-laliga-blocks-of-the-internet https://vercel.com/blog/update-on-spain-and-laliga-blocks-of...
- embedding-shape 5mo agoAgain, what dev tool are you using that get blocked because of these blocks? Is it Vercel you're unable to use during the blocks? Because my local Vercal installations keeps working just as well with no internet as with internet, so I'm guessing some Cloudflare IPs going offline won't have any effect either. You again reference blog posts from more than a year ago, the situation here in Spain isn't the same today as it was back then, it isn't blocking as much as it used to, and surely if you're personally impacted by these blocks, like I am, then you'd notice the difference today compared to before?
- iamnothere 5mo ago“But how does it affect you PERSONALLY?”
- pigggg 5mo agoCan confirm they've null routed various cloud providers IPs - with no notification and when folks reached out to the telecoms it took them 2 weeks of impact before they responded (even when provided with sufficient data of specific IPs getting dropped in their network).
- embedding-shape 5mo agoYes, IT infrastructure been a mess for a long time in Spain, even some regions TLDs been raided over bullshit and more before, no question about it. Never noticed any other cloud provider than Cloudflare being affected by these "La Liga" blocks though, all the others seems to open collaborate with La Liga directly, instead of having a judge enact ISPs to act against the CDNs, but maybe I missed some announcement?
- isodev 5mo agoI hope there is a secondary effect to all this - that websites, operators and web apps look for alternatives instead of always using Cloudflare (who themselves are a kind of LaLiga just in a different vertical).
- embedding-shape 5mo agoThe blocks been going on for around/almost two years now, the ones who cared about remaining online for their users during the La Liga matches they do the blocks (not all of them anymore it seems) already moved, the only ones left on Cloudflare seems to be some people that refuse to move away regardless of how their users are impacted by it. I think it's the same group of people who experience AWS downtime while having all their infrastructure there then go "Well, we're tried nothing and we're all out of ideas, guess we'll blame upstream".
- happymellon 5mo ago> I think it's the same group of people who experience AWS downtime while having all their infrastructure there Weird flex.
- anonzzzies 5mo agoI do not say it is not true because too many cases pop up here, however, I live in Spain and so does my company and we had this 0 times. Provider dependent? We have domestic fiber in Malaga.
- wolvoleo 5mo agoPossibly. I'm on Orange fiber and I haven't noticed anything weird either. However all my torrent traffic already goes through VPN and I don't watch football or any kind of live Spanish TV, I have zero interest in any sport.
- troad 5mo agoI just permanently live on a US VPN these days. [0] Not Spanish, but my own country has started overregulating the web, and it seems prudent to develop a long track record of appearing as a US based user to the various online fiefdoms, rather than needing to do it all at once once they pass some digital ID mandate or other nonsense. Not that there's any complete guarantee that the US web will forever remain open and free (no such guarantee is possible), but it's significantly more likely there than here. The state of the open web worldwide is pretty depressing. :( [0] Mullvad, not the bad ones. Though with mandatory ISP-level retention of browser history here, pretty much anything is an improvement for privacy.
- rollulus 5mo agoMullvad is Swedish, right?
- troad 5mo agoI believe so! Though with a healthy set of global endpoints to route through, naturally.
- embedding-shape 5mo ago> Though with mandatory ISP-level retention of browser history here Huh, how would that even work? At most they get the host, at least unless you're still mostly using http sites, only the Host header should be visible to your ISP.
- troad 5mo agoYes, I mean hosts, not literal browser history. I should've been clearer.
- nubinetwork 5mo agoI'll repeat what I said the last time about laliga... > Foot egg is so ingrained into the countrymen that nothing else matters. > There wouldn't be so much of a forced monopoly if more people would stop watching games and stand up to laliga. > Complaining on the internet every time laliga shuts down github etc isn't going to change anything, we can't solve your problems, the change has to come from within. Props to the court for telling laliga to go away.
- JrProgrammer 5mo agoRefering to football as foot egg when it’s actually a ball as opposed to the hand egg in the US is weird to me. OT: La Liga shouldn’t have this kind of power and it’s good to see the court take a stance
- nubinetwork 5mo agoThey call American football handegg, we should be able to do the opposite. :P
- louthy 5mo agoWhich is foot ball. Not foot egg.
- Yiin 5mo agothat just sounds petty for the sake of pettiness, surely you can do better in terms of mocking
- ktallett 5mo agoThe opposite would be foot ball. Although both are petty as anyway both are called it because it is played on foot with a ball. Not because you use your foot to kick a ball.
- AndrewDucker 5mo agoThe opposite of "hand egg" is not "foot egg". And the point is that the object played in "American Football" is not a ball. Balls are round. It is egg shaped. The object played in "Football" is a ball. Describing the ball in football as an egg just makes you look like you can't see properly.
- breppp 5mo ago[flagged]
- ktallett 5mo agoYou mean other than Berlin, Malmö, Paris, London, Munich, and many others. Europe doesn't have so many huge companies but that's not a bad thing. We do have a lot of companies doing key work that may benefit society as a whole.
- breppp 5mo agoWhile there are outliers, most of the European economy is Spain rather than Sweden The European economy is still largely the same as pre-WW2, heavy machineries, cars, chemicals and these are becoming less relevant with Chinese competition. However, the move to tech never materialized like in the US, so no surprise when soccer becomes more important than anything else, it's the only long term viable export in bleak places like Spain
- bromuro 5mo agoIn Spain soccer is culturally important - not economically central. Everyone in the world knows teams like Real Madrid or Barcelona. On the other side Spain is home of major telecom and banking multinationals, high-speed rail networks, renewable energy... the startup ecosystem is strong in many cities. Also european countries are deeply competitive in areas like industrial automation, aerospace, pharmaceuticals, semiconductors, telecommunications infrastructure, renewable energy systems, scientific instrumentation, petrochemicals etc. Tourism is strong because the immense cultural heritage.
- SpaceNugget 5mo ago> Everyone in the world knows teams like Real Madrid or Barcelona I promise you that if you go canvas a random selection of North Americans you would be astonished at how many do not recognize "Barcelona" as anything but a city. Football is really not very popular there. Though in recent years it is slowly becoming a bit more watched.
- ktallett 5mo agoConsidering web addresses are easily changed, it was a futile suggestion to say block LaLiga streams. Good on Nordvpn. As a football fan, the owners of the leagues have too much power. Like in the UK people have gone to jail for piracy, which should never happen.
- chadgpt3 5mo agoThat is why they blocked the whole internet. You can't avoid a block by changing your address if the whole internet is blocked.
- ktallett 5mo agoThey didn't mean to, just they were incompetent. Also considering Spanish league is spread over the full long weekend a waste of time. However this is why infrastructure and connection method is needing to be removed from the government by creation and adoption of alternatives such as mesh.
- embedding-shape 5mo agoWho blocked the whole internet? Doesn't happen here in Spain, which is the context for this submission, is "blocked the whole internet" what they do in the UK?
- swiftcoder 5mo ago> Doesn't happen here in Spain Yeah, it does. They banned an unreasonably large range of Cloudflare CDN IPs pretty regularly during LaLiga matches, effectively blocking big chunks of the internet from Spain. It has gained fairly broad notice across the world in the last year[1] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-geGEYEw7g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-geGEYEw7g
- embedding-shape 5mo agoHaha, what? Are you going in circles? We're talking about the La Liga matches, that's the context of this conversation :P And no, "the whole internet" does not get blocked, a handful of Cloudflare IPs get blocked, so any neighbors using those IPs too, are also unavailable. Maybe it's just me, but some IPs on Cloudflare being blocked isn't "blocked the whole internet" and if you it is, I suggest you start visiting more websites than the 1-2 American ones you're stuck in seemingly.
- anthk 5mo agoSue the courts for telecomms interruption and tampering from LaLiga.
- chadgpt3 5mo agoYou can't sue a court in a court for doing court stuff. Courts are superuser. They can do anything they want to. The recourse is vetting people before they become judges.
- picsao 5mo agoThis seems dysfunctional and a API for institutional subversion. If you can subvert the machinery that creates judges, you can basically take over a democracy without having any way to fix that except for institutional repair and waiting out the working lifespan of judges (which can be 1.5 generations)
- chadgpt3 5mo agoThat is correct. It's why the Republican party went so hard to prevent any non-Republican judges from joining the supreme court over the last 1.5 generations.
- embedding-shape 5mo agoReally confusing to talk about "Republicans" in a thread about Spain and not making it clear if you're talking about Republicans-Republicans or the modern Faux-Republican, AKA US-Republican :)
- tempaccountabgd 5mo ago[dead]
- radiator 5mo agoWhat do you mean "if you can"? It has already happened in several democratic countries.
- mdlxxv 5mo agoFinally, some common sense in this utterly absurd situation. I'm so glad this year's "fútbol" season ends this weekend. AFAIK, they don't break the Internet for Segunda División matches (yet!).
- embedding-shape 5mo agoOh boy do I have news for you; they're thinking of doing the same for other sports now too, not just football :) At least the blocks only been for a small amount of Cloudflare IPs, but still sucks big time.
- mdlxxv 5mo agoSigh. As if I had not enough reasons to hate professional sports ...
- thomastraum 5mo agofantastic work. PSA: if you still think its not the time to fight for your rights for the status quo in privacy you will come to regret it. If you are the type of person who reads this type of news and thinks: "cool the system is working, it'll sort itself out" you will come to regret it. you will need to become more active or it will be taken away
- embedding-shape 5mo agoLiterally it'll sort itself out, as the bans are unconstitutional and more, law just takes long time and we have other shit to sort out before starting to panic about 3-5 Cloudflare IPs getting banned for 2 hours a week...
- swiftcoder 5mo ago> about 3-5 Cloudflare IPs getting banned You missed a few zeroes there buddy > According to LaLiga itself, around 3,000 IP addresses are blocked every weekend[1] [1] https://cybernews.com/news/cloudflare-spain-laliga-piracy-blocking/ https://cybernews.com/news/cloudflare-spain-laliga-piracy-bl...
- embedding-shape 5mo agoWhich IPs that you use daily are actually affected by this though? I've been trying to keep track myself and so far in my months of collecting, I've noted down one service which is unavailable during the matches for me, Docker Hub, everything else seems to work today. Keep in mind, when they first started the blocks, a lot more was taken offline than what gets taken down when a match happens today, as they seem to continuously adjust it. The article you linked is from almost exactly a year ago, fwiw.
- dbbk 5mo ago> Which IPs that you use daily are actually affected by this though? My own company would get taken down.
- lifestyleguru 5mo agoFuck European football and everything about it. Hopefully this year's world cup will be absolute unpopular failure.
- regexorcist 5mo agoNo, fuck LaLiga. UCL always delivers for us fans and so does the world cup. It'll be extremely popular as always, for good reason.
- Ylpertnodi 5mo ago$3k to go to the WC to see portugal play. $799 to see portugal. Throw in ice, trump, border controls, socials exposed, the fifa peace prize... Who's going?
- theendisney 5mo agoIf any unrelated ip is blocked they are in violation of the EU common market regulations. Its simply not allowed.
- bamboozled 5mo agoFootball would be way more popular if it wasn’t so exclusive. f1 is same.