3 ms·

The problem with public policy is that it allows other countries to get ahead of you. 'AI' isn't just a tool, it's also a race.

iAMkenough 5mo ago
The bigger race is education, which some countries are really falling behind on.
- itsalwaysgood 5mo ago
  That is always going to be a personal race. You can get in the currents of education, but your success will always depend on your own paddling.
  - iAMkenough 5mo ago
    I don’t personally set education standards for today’s youth or budgets to invest in the country’s youth. The United States is falling behind in both.
beepbooptheory 5mo ago
Why should we care about that? Even if you wanted to argue our individual fates are tied to our country's, we don't all live in the same country, so how, actually, could we all care? Are you really convinced its so zero sum like this? We collectively spend decades and decades creating a sophisticated global capitalism, huge networks and infrastructures of trade and travel, just to find ourselves in some dark forest-esque race with everyone else anyway? Is this really consistent to you? What was the point of anything in the last, like 40 years to you if we just need to act like we are still in a cold war, except this time its a war with everyone?
- itsalwaysgood 5mo ago
  We're you around for the space race? It's a world prestige thing, and also a competitive edge, for better or worse.
- ToValueFunfetti 5mo ago
  "Other countries" means China here, I think. China got a little on board with the global capitalism (and lifted 800 million people out of extreme poverty along the way, if we're looking for the point), but never really embraced Liberalism and so ideally isn't the one aligning superintelligence. It would be lousy if Russia or North Korea or Somalia was in that position and it would be fine if the UK or Denmark or Brazil or Ghana was, but none of that matters because none of them will be in that position. Only the US and China are playing the game.
  - itsalwaysgood 5mo ago
    And it's a pretty big game
  - beepbooptheory 5mo ago
    If this speculated intelligence is so "super" why would it matter what its host country's commitments are? I would hope it would at least be intelligent enough to sort things out there? How can something be so potentially threatening, so "super," but also be like a baby, where we need to worry how its raised? Its super intelligent about everything except ideology? That doesn't really sound like (super)intelligence to me.. But ok, even granting that framing, if the issue is China's placement on the spectrum of "liberal", what would it take for them to be the good enough guys here?
    - itsalwaysgood 5mo ago
      I think it's more of a prestige discussion. Who leads, who follows, between countries. Not whose super intelligence is better. Who got their first, and how are they using it?
    - ToValueFunfetti 5mo ago
      A supervillain is nevertheless super. Intelligence doesn't correlate with morality- most probably there doesn't exist a 'true ideology' that can be solved for in absolute terms. Do you imagine a superintelligence could calculate how beauty 'ought to' be traded off against truth? When I say China is a bad choice because it's not as liberal as ~the west, I do imagine a reader in China thinking the opposite. I don't think they're dumb and I don't think they've been duped; they have a coherent ideology that fits their values. I just don't want it to stomp out mine. Maybe I'm wrong and you can solve for morality or at least the meta-morality of Liberalism/pluralism where you permit various moralities to coexist. Hopefully so. Maybe the value system in China is closer to mine than I imagine and it's just operating under different constraints. But I don't want to gamble on that when winning is within reach and is a guarantee given alignment to any human values is achieved at all.
butlike 5mo ago
What do you win at the end of the race? I've never heard it concisely put. 'Dominance' is the word that comes to my mind, but I don't want to put words in your mouth and don't really know why that would inherently be a valuable trophy, so that's probably not what you were thinking of, right?
- itsalwaysgood 5mo ago
  As always, influence for the future
  - iAMkenough 5mo ago
    Not if you don’t set your country’s children up for success. Top of the line AI without educated, healthy, economically-stable children means no future for the country or our society.
    - itsalwaysgood 5mo ago
      You are right. I'm not saying I like the way things are trending. But I also think setting up our children means making sure they're prepared for the future. I don't think AI will ever replace the importance of education.

iAMkenough 5mo ago

The bigger race is education, which some countries are really falling behind on.

itsalwaysgood 5mo ago
That is always going to be a personal race. You can get in the currents of education, but your success will always depend on your own paddling.
- iAMkenough 5mo ago
  I don’t personally set education standards for today’s youth or budgets to invest in the country’s youth. The United States is falling behind in both.

beepbooptheory 5mo ago

Why should we care about that? Even if you wanted to argue our individual fates are tied to our country's, we don't all live in the same country, so how, actually, could we all care? Are you really convinced its so zero sum like this? We collectively spend decades and decades creating a sophisticated global capitalism, huge networks and infrastructures of trade and travel, just to find ourselves in some dark forest-esque race with everyone else anyway? Is this really consistent to you? What was the point of anything in the last, like 40 years to you if we just need to act like we are still in a cold war, except this time its a war with everyone?

itsalwaysgood 5mo ago
We're you around for the space race? It's a world prestige thing, and also a competitive edge, for better or worse.
ToValueFunfetti 5mo ago
"Other countries" means China here, I think. China got a little on board with the global capitalism (and lifted 800 million people out of extreme poverty along the way, if we're looking for the point), but never really embraced Liberalism and so ideally isn't the one aligning superintelligence. It would be lousy if Russia or North Korea or Somalia was in that position and it would be fine if the UK or Denmark or Brazil or Ghana was, but none of that matters because none of them will be in that position. Only the US and China are playing the game.
- itsalwaysgood 5mo ago
  And it's a pretty big game
- beepbooptheory 5mo ago
  If this speculated intelligence is so "super" why would it matter what its host country's commitments are? I would hope it would at least be intelligent enough to sort things out there? How can something be so potentially threatening, so "super," but also be like a baby, where we need to worry how its raised? Its super intelligent about everything except ideology? That doesn't really sound like (super)intelligence to me.. But ok, even granting that framing, if the issue is China's placement on the spectrum of "liberal", what would it take for them to be the good enough guys here?
  - itsalwaysgood 5mo ago
    I think it's more of a prestige discussion. Who leads, who follows, between countries. Not whose super intelligence is better. Who got their first, and how are they using it?
  - ToValueFunfetti 5mo ago
    A supervillain is nevertheless super. Intelligence doesn't correlate with morality- most probably there doesn't exist a 'true ideology' that can be solved for in absolute terms. Do you imagine a superintelligence could calculate how beauty 'ought to' be traded off against truth? When I say China is a bad choice because it's not as liberal as ~the west, I do imagine a reader in China thinking the opposite. I don't think they're dumb and I don't think they've been duped; they have a coherent ideology that fits their values. I just don't want it to stomp out mine. Maybe I'm wrong and you can solve for morality or at least the meta-morality of Liberalism/pluralism where you permit various moralities to coexist. Hopefully so. Maybe the value system in China is closer to mine than I imagine and it's just operating under different constraints. But I don't want to gamble on that when winning is within reach and is a guarantee given alignment to any human values is achieved at all.

butlike 5mo ago

What do you win at the end of the race? I've never heard it concisely put. 'Dominance' is the word that comes to my mind, but I don't want to put words in your mouth and don't really know why that would inherently be a valuable trophy, so that's probably not what you were thinking of, right?

itsalwaysgood 5mo ago
As always, influence for the future
- iAMkenough 5mo ago
  Not if you don’t set your country’s children up for success. Top of the line AI without educated, healthy, economically-stable children means no future for the country or our society.
  - itsalwaysgood 5mo ago
    You are right. I'm not saying I like the way things are trending. But I also think setting up our children means making sure they're prepared for the future. I don't think AI will ever replace the importance of education.