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> and after over a year of debate There was no "year of debate". You came to the mailing list and announced it for the first time as a finalized decision alre

> and after over a year of debate There was no "year of debate". You came to the mailing list and announced it for the first time as a finalized decision already, without any prior debate with the original team. The "board" you cited as the body which allegedly discussed it did neither join the mailing list discussion, nor were you willing to hand out their contact info. It's all public for anyone to see on the mailing list archive: https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55262.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526... https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/ https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/

sanity 5mo ago
> There was no "year of debate". Incorrect, I raised the issue with the lead maintainer over a year prior to that announcement. > You came to the mailing list and declared it as a finalized decision. As the project's architect I'm entitled to make decisions about the project's future direction. > It's all public for anyone to see on the mailing list archive: > https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526 https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526... I stand by every word I said in that mailing list thread.
- abno525 5mo ago
  For anyone confused, link is cited badly and mail did not get deleted. https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55262.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526...
  - itsthecourier 5mo ago
    seems freenet is not free after all, maybe a rebrand to ianet would be more appropriate
- qcl820DV34 5mo ago
  > Incorrect, I raised the issue with the lead maintainer over a year prior to that announcement. The previous lead maintainer, Steve, voiced their frustration with your decision here: https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55263.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526... To which you sent a brash reply, which sounds like you don't know Steve's position in the community: https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55264.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526... To which the current lead maintainer, Arne, said he agrees with the sentiment of Steve: https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55265.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526... So if you discussed this with Arne for a year, then why does he agree with the frustration of Steve? And even if the discussion with Arne happened, it still was a backroom decision: Two people are not representative on a project with plenty of developers and an active community. > As the project's architect I'm entitled to make decisions about the project's future direction. A sense of entitlement is not a leadership quality. A leadership quality would be to admit a mistake: That repurposing the name was not only bad for the original project, but also for the new one (because these discussions will haunt it forever), and to then rename the new project to a fresh name which no other software used before.
  - sanity 5mo ago
    As the FAQ explains, the existing maintainers didn't agree with my decision, but I stand by it - particularly in light of the fact that we now have a working decentralized group chat on the new Freenet, something that the old architecture could never have supported. Whether or not it was the right decision will be determined by the outcomes, which so far are promising, because we have a working network that does things that the old architecture could never do.
  - 16bitvoid 5mo ago
    I also like how his first response to a reply to the announcement (and multiple others) was "who do you speak for?" while simultaneously framing a discussion with a single person, in private, as a good faith effort to hear from the community with the implicit assumption that that one person spoke for the community.
    - sanity 5mo ago
      Endeavors that make decisions based on what will please the loudest people in the near term normally run into the ground pretty quickly. There was never any obligation to obtain the approval of "the community", whatever that is. Nothing about the name change prevented existing users from continuing to use the software just as they had been doing, and many of them said they agreed with the decision. I honestly only ever hear about this drama on HN, it's a non-issue anywhere else we get attention.
      - 16bitvoid 5mo ago
        And endeavors, which are supposedly for the benefit of everyone, that listen to no one run into the ground even quicker. That's beside the point though. I was pointing out the hypocrisy. This sidestepping and deflection seems to be a trend with you, both here and in the mailing list. No point in responding to me though if it's just to grandstand. You've made it apparent to me that I want nothing to do with your project. Cheers.
        5mo ago
kstrauser 5mo ago
WTF. These are some of the first things I clicked through on that page: - https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55341.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5534... - https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55345.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5534... Gee, I can't imagine how that mailing list could ever be toxic.
- sanity 5mo ago
  Not sure what you mean but I stand by every word I said in that thread.
  - angoragoats 5mo ago
    Holy shit. I’m a long-time admirer of freenet and you just single handedly destroyed any positive view of the project I may have held. Get a fucking grip and seek help if you can’t.
    - sanity 5mo ago
      [flagged]
      - angoragoats 5mo ago
        What? I don’t understand.
        DaSHacka 5mo ago
        He's telling you to go and touch grass
        outside1234 5mo ago
        Touching grass is woke mind virus /s
        5mo ago
ArneBab 5mo ago
There was no public debate, but he did start to talk to devs 18 months before, and the devs told him quite clearly that they strongly object to repurposing the name. And that repurposing the name would cause lots of damage.
DANmode 5mo ago
A correction, based on the text as written: they were saying they debated with themselves, before making the decision.

sanity 5mo ago

> There was no "year of debate". Incorrect, I raised the issue with the lead maintainer over a year prior to that announcement. > You came to the mailing list and declared it as a finalized decision. As the project's architect I'm entitled to make decisions about the project's future direction. > It's all public for anyone to see on the mailing list archive: > https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526 https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526... I stand by every word I said in that mailing list thread.

abno525 5mo ago
For anyone confused, link is cited badly and mail did not get deleted. https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55262.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526...
- itsthecourier 5mo ago
  seems freenet is not free after all, maybe a rebrand to ianet would be more appropriate
qcl820DV34 5mo ago
> Incorrect, I raised the issue with the lead maintainer over a year prior to that announcement. The previous lead maintainer, Steve, voiced their frustration with your decision here: https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55263.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526... To which you sent a brash reply, which sounds like you don't know Steve's position in the community: https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55264.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526... To which the current lead maintainer, Arne, said he agrees with the sentiment of Steve: https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55265.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5526... So if you discussed this with Arne for a year, then why does he agree with the frustration of Steve? And even if the discussion with Arne happened, it still was a backroom decision: Two people are not representative on a project with plenty of developers and an active community. > As the project's architect I'm entitled to make decisions about the project's future direction. A sense of entitlement is not a leadership quality. A leadership quality would be to admit a mistake: That repurposing the name was not only bad for the original project, but also for the new one (because these discussions will haunt it forever), and to then rename the new project to a fresh name which no other software used before.
- sanity 5mo ago
  As the FAQ explains, the existing maintainers didn't agree with my decision, but I stand by it - particularly in light of the fact that we now have a working decentralized group chat on the new Freenet, something that the old architecture could never have supported. Whether or not it was the right decision will be determined by the outcomes, which so far are promising, because we have a working network that does things that the old architecture could never do.
- 16bitvoid 5mo ago
  I also like how his first response to a reply to the announcement (and multiple others) was "who do you speak for?" while simultaneously framing a discussion with a single person, in private, as a good faith effort to hear from the community with the implicit assumption that that one person spoke for the community.
  - sanity 5mo ago
    Endeavors that make decisions based on what will please the loudest people in the near term normally run into the ground pretty quickly. There was never any obligation to obtain the approval of "the community", whatever that is. Nothing about the name change prevented existing users from continuing to use the software just as they had been doing, and many of them said they agreed with the decision. I honestly only ever hear about this drama on HN, it's a non-issue anywhere else we get attention.
    - 16bitvoid 5mo ago
      And endeavors, which are supposedly for the benefit of everyone, that listen to no one run into the ground even quicker. That's beside the point though. I was pointing out the hypocrisy. This sidestepping and deflection seems to be a trend with you, both here and in the mailing list. No point in responding to me though if it's just to grandstand. You've made it apparent to me that I want nothing to do with your project. Cheers.
      - 5mo ago

kstrauser 5mo ago

WTF. These are some of the first things I clicked through on that page: - https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55341.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5534... - https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55345.html https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg5534... Gee, I can't imagine how that mailing list could ever be toxic.

sanity 5mo ago
Not sure what you mean but I stand by every word I said in that thread.
- angoragoats 5mo ago
  Holy shit. I’m a long-time admirer of freenet and you just single handedly destroyed any positive view of the project I may have held. Get a fucking grip and seek help if you can’t.
  - sanity 5mo ago
    [flagged]
    - angoragoats 5mo ago
      What? I don’t understand.
      - DaSHacka 5mo ago
        He's telling you to go and touch grass
        outside1234 5mo ago
        Touching grass is woke mind virus /s
        5mo ago

ArneBab 5mo ago

There was no public debate, but he did start to talk to devs 18 months before, and the devs told him quite clearly that they strongly object to repurposing the name. And that repurposing the name would cause lots of damage.

DANmode 5mo ago

A correction, based on the text as written: they were saying they debated with themselves, before making the decision.