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The Expanse also was (for me) the first to introduce the concept of a braking burn. Star Wars ships just stop without turning around - can’t unsee it. I think t

by manmal 5mo ago

The Expanse also was (for me) the first to introduce the concept of a braking burn. Star Wars ships just stop without turning around - can’t unsee it. I think the way X-wing fighters “fly” also wouldn’t work at all, I don’t see any reaction mass coming out the sides.

QuercusMax 5mo ago
Babylon 5 was the only show in the 90s that actually had any sort of physics based space combat (as opposed to Star Wars-style "they're really just airplanes but we're pretending it's space").
- the_af 5mo ago
  I really missed on watching Babylon 5 (it was during my time, but I unfortunately dismissed it as just another Star Trek wannabe, and only learned later this was unfair). I wish I had given it a chance. I cannot watch it now because of several reasons, and I'm not sure it would stand the test of time anyway, after having watched The Expanse.
  - joemi 5mo ago
    I was in a kind of similar situation. Didn't watch it when it was originally airing, though I could have. I eventually watched it decades later and absolutely loved it. That said, it was pre-The Expanse. But I still think it holds up pretty well, even if the special effects aren't as good.
  - pmontra 5mo ago
    Babylon 5 is at the beginning of the uncanny valley of computer graphics so it looks funny (I think they used Amigas) but if you pretend that those effects are of current cinema quality, everything else is good. They travel with hyperspace portals (maybe you saw Cowboy Bebop) so they don't have to perform many unphysical motions in normal space. It's still a great show. Less of a space opera compared to the Expanse, more like a Star Trek DS9 with ETs way more powerful than earthlings.
  - bugufu8f83 5mo ago
    I personally think B5 is a better show than The Expanse, but I don't mind the dated visuals or the occasional bit of campy acting or whatever. The storytelling is absolutely first-rate.
grey-area 5mo ago
Biggest thing they all still get wrong for reasons of drama is showing humans wrestling with controls and flying like a fighter pilot. Real spaceships do not and will not have humans in the control loop except to specify a destination or target.
- krger 5mo ago
  >Real spaceships do not and will not have humans in the control loop except to specify a destination or target. Jim Lovell would like a word.
  - cwillu 5mo ago
    Present and future tense, not past tense.
  - dwd 5mo ago
    As would Neil Armstrong.
  - trothamel 5mo ago
    After the accident, Apollo 13 had 4 burns. The DPS-1 burn which restored the free return trajectory was done using the Apollo guidance computer. The PC+2 burn which sped up the return from earth was done using the Apollo guidance computer. The MCC-5 mid-course correction burn was done by hand. The MCC-7 mid-course correction burn was done by hand, but used the Apollo guidance computer to integrate the accelerometer to let everyone know when the burn was done. (All the burns on Apollo 8 were computer controlled. I'd assume Gemini 7 and 12 were hand flown, though I don't know for sure.)
- hbarka 5mo ago
  Would dead-reckoning work or using some galactic sextant?
  - shagie 5mo ago
    Maybe? Ultima (Proxima Book 2) by Stephen Baxter: “Oh, come on. This is just great. An imperial Roman starship! . . . We know they lack sophisticated electronics, computers. I wonder how the hell they navigate that thing.” “The drive isn’t always on,” said Titus. Stef realized that a more precise translation of his words might have been, *The vulcans do not always vomit fire.* “Every month they shut it down, and turn the ship.” He mimed this with his one good hand, like aligning a cannon. “The surveyors take sightings from the stars. Then they swivel the ship to make sure we’re on the right track, and fire up the drive again. It’s like laying a road, on the march. You lay a stretch, and at the end of the day the surveyors take their sightings to make sure you’re heading straight and true where you’re supposed to go, and the next day off you go. Works like a dream. Why, I remember once on campaign—” “Navigation by dead reckoning,” said the ColU. “Taking sightings from the stars—simply pointing the craft at the destination. They have no computers here, Colonel Kalinski, nothing more complex than an abacus. And they have astrolabes, planispheres, orreries, sextants, and very fine clocks—all mechanical, mechanical, and remarkably sophisticated. But, Colonel, this starship is piloted using clockwork! However, if you have the brute energy of the kernels available, you don’t need subtlety, you don’t need fine control. You need only aim and fire.”
mr_toad 5mo ago
Lucas wanted to make a swords and sorcery epic in space, and that’s what he did. And he wanted to make space battles look like WWII dogfights, so he did that too. There’s no point trying to compare Star Wars with any sort of realism.

by manmal 5mo ago

QuercusMax 5mo ago

Babylon 5 was the only show in the 90s that actually had any sort of physics based space combat (as opposed to Star Wars-style "they're really just airplanes but we're pretending it's space").

the_af 5mo ago
I really missed on watching Babylon 5 (it was during my time, but I unfortunately dismissed it as just another Star Trek wannabe, and only learned later this was unfair). I wish I had given it a chance. I cannot watch it now because of several reasons, and I'm not sure it would stand the test of time anyway, after having watched The Expanse.
- joemi 5mo ago
  I was in a kind of similar situation. Didn't watch it when it was originally airing, though I could have. I eventually watched it decades later and absolutely loved it. That said, it was pre-The Expanse. But I still think it holds up pretty well, even if the special effects aren't as good.
- pmontra 5mo ago
  Babylon 5 is at the beginning of the uncanny valley of computer graphics so it looks funny (I think they used Amigas) but if you pretend that those effects are of current cinema quality, everything else is good. They travel with hyperspace portals (maybe you saw Cowboy Bebop) so they don't have to perform many unphysical motions in normal space. It's still a great show. Less of a space opera compared to the Expanse, more like a Star Trek DS9 with ETs way more powerful than earthlings.
- bugufu8f83 5mo ago
  I personally think B5 is a better show than The Expanse, but I don't mind the dated visuals or the occasional bit of campy acting or whatever. The storytelling is absolutely first-rate.

grey-area 5mo ago

Biggest thing they all still get wrong for reasons of drama is showing humans wrestling with controls and flying like a fighter pilot. Real spaceships do not and will not have humans in the control loop except to specify a destination or target.

krger 5mo ago
>Real spaceships do not and will not have humans in the control loop except to specify a destination or target. Jim Lovell would like a word.
- cwillu 5mo ago
  Present and future tense, not past tense.
- dwd 5mo ago
  As would Neil Armstrong.
- trothamel 5mo ago
  After the accident, Apollo 13 had 4 burns. The DPS-1 burn which restored the free return trajectory was done using the Apollo guidance computer. The PC+2 burn which sped up the return from earth was done using the Apollo guidance computer. The MCC-5 mid-course correction burn was done by hand. The MCC-7 mid-course correction burn was done by hand, but used the Apollo guidance computer to integrate the accelerometer to let everyone know when the burn was done. (All the burns on Apollo 8 were computer controlled. I'd assume Gemini 7 and 12 were hand flown, though I don't know for sure.)
hbarka 5mo ago
Would dead-reckoning work or using some galactic sextant?
- shagie 5mo ago
  Maybe? Ultima (Proxima Book 2) by Stephen Baxter: “Oh, come on. This is just great. An imperial Roman starship! . . . We know they lack sophisticated electronics, computers. I wonder how the hell they navigate that thing.” “The drive isn’t always on,” said Titus. Stef realized that a more precise translation of his words might have been, *The vulcans do not always vomit fire.* “Every month they shut it down, and turn the ship.” He mimed this with his one good hand, like aligning a cannon. “The surveyors take sightings from the stars. Then they swivel the ship to make sure we’re on the right track, and fire up the drive again. It’s like laying a road, on the march. You lay a stretch, and at the end of the day the surveyors take their sightings to make sure you’re heading straight and true where you’re supposed to go, and the next day off you go. Works like a dream. Why, I remember once on campaign—” “Navigation by dead reckoning,” said the ColU. “Taking sightings from the stars—simply pointing the craft at the destination. They have no computers here, Colonel Kalinski, nothing more complex than an abacus. And they have astrolabes, planispheres, orreries, sextants, and very fine clocks—all mechanical, mechanical, and remarkably sophisticated. But, Colonel, this starship is piloted using clockwork! However, if you have the brute energy of the kernels available, you don’t need subtlety, you don’t need fine control. You need only aim and fire.”

mr_toad 5mo ago

Lucas wanted to make a swords and sorcery epic in space, and that’s what he did. And he wanted to make space battles look like WWII dogfights, so he did that too. There’s no point trying to compare Star Wars with any sort of realism.