10 ms·

There are three things I want to do with PC technology: store stuff, run programs (which may mean consuming the things I've stored), and stay connected with fri

There are three things I want to do with PC technology: store stuff, run programs (which may mean consuming the things I've stored), and stay connected with friends. None of these should be dependent on location, hardware, or my personal affiliations. Geesh, it's almost 2013 folks. I should be able to walk up to a panel at a store, have it recognize me, and have all of my stuff available. Do whatever I would do at home using my PC if I like. Walk away from the panel and it resets. There's no clue or trail that I was even there. We keep trying to use these metaphors about how the internet should work. It's a walled garden. It's a bazzar. It's a type of newspaper subscription. It's a club for friends. Each metaphor works okay -- for a while. But then the people making money off the metaphor start trying to make sure that we never grow past their little idea of happiness. The tech community is smarter than this. Location-free, hardware-free, non-walled technology is the goal. Let's start going there.

meaty 14y ago
The tech community is cleverer than this yes, but the consumers aren't and businesses still will use any tactic possible to milk their accumulated crop of consumers dry and protect them from other wolves. Better start listening to stallman if you want all that (I certainly do).
- crusso 14y ago
  Better start listening to stallman if you want all that Why? Stallman has written some software and posited some interesting ideas, but his philosophical bent lacks any kind of holistic approach to problem solving in the real world. When Stallman tries to extend his ideas to larger contexts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Hurd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Hurd), he fails because he's not a big picture guy. He's a laser-focused ideologue. If you want that Star Trekky future, you're better off listening to the words of those who built business models (Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Walt Disney, etc.), not operating system libraries and software licenses.
  - meaty 14y ago
    I think you missed his point, and mine. His solution is simply that the real world is broken and needs fixing, which it sorely does. If you want that Star Trekky future, throw the corporations out who want to partition everyone into markets like cattle. Then build stuff for the good of humanity, not for cash. Oh wait - there's GNU already in that space. Jobs, Bezos, Disney just worked out how to sell shit, not respect our freedoms or improve the world.
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      That is a tricky issue and comes down to financing riskier innovation. It is worth remembering that GNU originally existed as a way to clone a non free system in a way that made it free. A lot of open source development is also done or funded by corporations to help build commoditize the parts they need in order to create platforms for software and media that are in many cases fairly walled garden. Stallman and the like may have produced fine C compilers and text editors but it would seem unlikely for them to come up with something like the iPhone.
      - meaty 14y ago
        I think you overestimate the importance of the smartphone. A free smartphone is still tied to a non free network and to be honest, isn't required for humanity to function. It's an accessory, not a necessity. If they disappeared overnight, the world would still turn. The same is not true for the text editor and compiler.
        jiggy2011 14y ago
        The same could be said about most pieces of technology. If emacs disappeared tomorrow the HN server would probably be crushed under the weight of angsty developers but stuff would still keep happening. It's not like GNU developed the first C compiler or text editor either, Stallman seems to believe the priority should be on developing free alternatives to things that have already been made (i.e the risk taken) by a proprietary company. This is reflected in the FSF "high priority" list: http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/ http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/ If you want a Star Trek future you need to develop all the little pieces of technology that are required incrementally.
- nicholassmith 14y ago
  Even Stallman wants you to live in an ecosystem, it's just his vision of an ecosystem.
  - pjscott 14y ago
    Stallman's vision of an ecosystem is one in which you're not locked in by your data, since it's all in open formats and under your control. That makes his ideology very easy to get along with.
    - zem 14y ago
      easy for us; not so easy for people aligned with the "lock your customers in as a revenue stream" model.
- crag 14y ago
  "tech community is cleverer than this yes, but the consumers aren't " I think consumers "can" be smarter. Given a chance. Right now they (we) are inundated with marketing. It's everywhere. So much so, that's hard to make an informed decision (this is especially true in politics). Corporations (and many politicians) aren't interested in "truth". They're interested in making the sale. And the best way to do that is emphasized the good of the product and ignore the bad. Every "product" in the world does this. From Coke to a credit cards.
mbesto 14y ago
I should be able to walk up to a panel at a store, have it recognize me, and have all of my stuff available. Do whatever I would do at home using my PC if I like. Walk away from the panel and it resets. There's no clue or trail that I was even there. How is it supposed to recognize you, but then have no clue or trail that you were even there? The tech community is smarter than this. Location-free, hardware-free, non-walled technology is the goal. Let's start going there. And who's going to pay for the platform to do all of that? How do you keep the weeds out of your garden? Simple, build a wall. There is a reason walled gardens work.
- freehunter 14y ago
  Like a Linux LiveCD when you sign into Chrome. You authenticate, but when you close the session everything is gone and its back to default.
  - thedrbrian 14y ago
    But that's google's garden. What is stopping them from getting bored of reading penis enhancement spam and shuttering gmail or reader?
    - freehunter 14y ago
      I said "like this" not "exactly this". Just a demonstration of how it could work.
      - chongli 14y ago
        That's called wishful thinking.
        freehunter 14y ago
        Which is what the parent was engaging in. The next guy then asked how it would work. I gave an example of how it could work. I'm not sure what the disagreement is here.
DanBC 14y ago
The only problem with your scenario is malware. That's not insurmountable, but people have spent so long concentrating on building the walls that the reasonable vision you present will probably never happen. I agree that's a great shame.
netcan 14y ago
I'm not sure I agree. I definitely agree with the latter part about broken metaphors. I'm just not sure how well that agrees with the first part. In my opinion, the broken metaphor that the blog is being chaffed by most is the metaphor of "owning content." We've never owned "content" before. Not as consumers. Labels & licensing companies owned "content" or "rights" or somesuch. Consumers owned records, books or video tapes. When you own a video tape the rules are dictated (or at least suggested) by reality. You can watch it as often as you want. If you (and your equipment) take care of it, it will last a long time. You can loan it, you can sell it , you can give it away. These days, "owning a song" is a metaphor. A broken one. These "ecosystems" are largely systems for maintaining this metaphor. I have hope that most of the problems with roots in realities (eg controlling your Apple TV with an android phone) will be dulled over time. The ugly problems being caused by broken metaphors trying to simulate the past when we owned CDs will have ugly solutions.
ctdonath 14y ago
Any sophisticated large-population demographic is going to require some form of governance, and a subset of that demographic will resent being governed. Just being able to walk up to that panel will require rules regarding business zoning, construction codes, traffic organization and enforcement, etc. Once you've arrived at the panel, there's all the standardization and regulation and coordination and infrastructure just to identify the face as you, securely transfer your data, standardized operating system to run on, etc. Much of what you do leaves traces - to your desirable benefit. Anarchy is not conducive to sophisticated lifestyle.
freshhawk 14y ago
The tech community is smart enough to know that removing your ability to do these things in order to improve user retention is a net win. Because most users might complain but will still use it anyway as long as your marketing is good. You don't want a smarter tech community, you want a more altruistic or socially conscious tech community. I completely agree but ... HN is not a place where that message is well received in general.

meaty 14y ago

The tech community is cleverer than this yes, but the consumers aren't and businesses still will use any tactic possible to milk their accumulated crop of consumers dry and protect them from other wolves. Better start listening to stallman if you want all that (I certainly do).

crusso 14y ago
Better start listening to stallman if you want all that Why? Stallman has written some software and posited some interesting ideas, but his philosophical bent lacks any kind of holistic approach to problem solving in the real world. When Stallman tries to extend his ideas to larger contexts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Hurd http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Hurd), he fails because he's not a big picture guy. He's a laser-focused ideologue. If you want that Star Trekky future, you're better off listening to the words of those who built business models (Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Walt Disney, etc.), not operating system libraries and software licenses.
- meaty 14y ago
  I think you missed his point, and mine. His solution is simply that the real world is broken and needs fixing, which it sorely does. If you want that Star Trekky future, throw the corporations out who want to partition everyone into markets like cattle. Then build stuff for the good of humanity, not for cash. Oh wait - there's GNU already in that space. Jobs, Bezos, Disney just worked out how to sell shit, not respect our freedoms or improve the world.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    That is a tricky issue and comes down to financing riskier innovation. It is worth remembering that GNU originally existed as a way to clone a non free system in a way that made it free. A lot of open source development is also done or funded by corporations to help build commoditize the parts they need in order to create platforms for software and media that are in many cases fairly walled garden. Stallman and the like may have produced fine C compilers and text editors but it would seem unlikely for them to come up with something like the iPhone.
    - meaty 14y ago
      I think you overestimate the importance of the smartphone. A free smartphone is still tied to a non free network and to be honest, isn't required for humanity to function. It's an accessory, not a necessity. If they disappeared overnight, the world would still turn. The same is not true for the text editor and compiler.
      - jiggy2011 14y ago
        The same could be said about most pieces of technology. If emacs disappeared tomorrow the HN server would probably be crushed under the weight of angsty developers but stuff would still keep happening. It's not like GNU developed the first C compiler or text editor either, Stallman seems to believe the priority should be on developing free alternatives to things that have already been made (i.e the risk taken) by a proprietary company. This is reflected in the FSF "high priority" list: http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/ http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/ If you want a Star Trek future you need to develop all the little pieces of technology that are required incrementally.
nicholassmith 14y ago
Even Stallman wants you to live in an ecosystem, it's just his vision of an ecosystem.
- pjscott 14y ago
  Stallman's vision of an ecosystem is one in which you're not locked in by your data, since it's all in open formats and under your control. That makes his ideology very easy to get along with.
  - zem 14y ago
    easy for us; not so easy for people aligned with the "lock your customers in as a revenue stream" model.
crag 14y ago
"tech community is cleverer than this yes, but the consumers aren't " I think consumers "can" be smarter. Given a chance. Right now they (we) are inundated with marketing. It's everywhere. So much so, that's hard to make an informed decision (this is especially true in politics). Corporations (and many politicians) aren't interested in "truth". They're interested in making the sale. And the best way to do that is emphasized the good of the product and ignore the bad. Every "product" in the world does this. From Coke to a credit cards.

mbesto 14y ago

I should be able to walk up to a panel at a store, have it recognize me, and have all of my stuff available. Do whatever I would do at home using my PC if I like. Walk away from the panel and it resets. There's no clue or trail that I was even there. How is it supposed to recognize you, but then have no clue or trail that you were even there? The tech community is smarter than this. Location-free, hardware-free, non-walled technology is the goal. Let's start going there. And who's going to pay for the platform to do all of that? How do you keep the weeds out of your garden? Simple, build a wall. There is a reason walled gardens work.

freehunter 14y ago
Like a Linux LiveCD when you sign into Chrome. You authenticate, but when you close the session everything is gone and its back to default.
- thedrbrian 14y ago
  But that's google's garden. What is stopping them from getting bored of reading penis enhancement spam and shuttering gmail or reader?
  - freehunter 14y ago
    I said "like this" not "exactly this". Just a demonstration of how it could work.
    - chongli 14y ago
      That's called wishful thinking.
      - freehunter 14y ago
        Which is what the parent was engaging in. The next guy then asked how it would work. I gave an example of how it could work. I'm not sure what the disagreement is here.

DanBC 14y ago

The only problem with your scenario is malware. That's not insurmountable, but people have spent so long concentrating on building the walls that the reasonable vision you present will probably never happen. I agree that's a great shame.

netcan 14y ago

I'm not sure I agree. I definitely agree with the latter part about broken metaphors. I'm just not sure how well that agrees with the first part. In my opinion, the broken metaphor that the blog is being chaffed by most is the metaphor of "owning content." We've never owned "content" before. Not as consumers. Labels & licensing companies owned "content" or "rights" or somesuch. Consumers owned records, books or video tapes. When you own a video tape the rules are dictated (or at least suggested) by reality. You can watch it as often as you want. If you (and your equipment) take care of it, it will last a long time. You can loan it, you can sell it , you can give it away. These days, "owning a song" is a metaphor. A broken one. These "ecosystems" are largely systems for maintaining this metaphor. I have hope that most of the problems with roots in realities (eg controlling your Apple TV with an android phone) will be dulled over time. The ugly problems being caused by broken metaphors trying to simulate the past when we owned CDs will have ugly solutions.

ctdonath 14y ago

Any sophisticated large-population demographic is going to require some form of governance, and a subset of that demographic will resent being governed. Just being able to walk up to that panel will require rules regarding business zoning, construction codes, traffic organization and enforcement, etc. Once you've arrived at the panel, there's all the standardization and regulation and coordination and infrastructure just to identify the face as you, securely transfer your data, standardized operating system to run on, etc. Much of what you do leaves traces - to your desirable benefit. Anarchy is not conducive to sophisticated lifestyle.

freshhawk 14y ago

The tech community is smart enough to know that removing your ability to do these things in order to improve user retention is a net win. Because most users might complain but will still use it anyway as long as your marketing is good. You don't want a smarter tech community, you want a more altruistic or socially conscious tech community. I completely agree but ... HN is not a place where that message is well received in general.