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Take it up with Anthropic. It's actually their billion-dollar TUI product you're commenting on. The problem with being such a naysayer is that you're entirely

Take it up with Anthropic. It's actually their billion-dollar TUI product you're commenting on. The problem with being such a naysayer is that you're entirely disconnected from what's going on. You haven't tried an agent like Claude Code and experienced it for yourself, so you don't recognise what it looks like when it's in front of you.

Philip-J-Fry 5mo ago
I have tried Claude code. It doesn't look like that! I don't know what the project is. All I see is a TUI that looks completely broken. Go and use Claude Code right now. Does it look like that? Random underscores all over the page. No it doesn't.
- walthamstow 5mo ago
  It can look like that in certain conditions. The question is why are you so eager to give critique on unrelated work, appearing in a demo screencap, to someone who didn't produce it?
  - Philip-J-Fry 5mo ago
    I don't know what you're talking about. His tool wraps Claude and breaks the TUI. What's so hard to understand? That's valid critique. What world have I woke up in today?
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    - walthamstow 5mo ago
      To be honest I assumed it was the screencap software running a basic terminal env without bells and whistles that CC needs, which I've seen before. If the actual tool functions like that too, that's not great. That said, it works for them, it works for them.
      - gilrain 5mo ago
        But earlier: > The question is why are you so eager to give critique on unrelated work, appearing in a demo screencap, to someone who didn't produce it? I guess the question was actually, why were you so eager to critique a critique based on a false assumption? I wish people would be careful what they support with their rhetoric.
  - albedoa 5mo ago
    > The question is why are you so eager to give critique on unrelated work That is not the question. The topic of discussion had been defined multiple times before you commented!
embedding-shape 5mo ago
> Take it up with Anthropic. It's actually their billion-dollar TUI product you're commenting on. That's like blaming the company making hammers because you're unable to build a lasting house with the hammer, it really isn't up to Anthropic, but all about how you use the tool you're holding.
- malfist 5mo ago
  This analogy was trotted out every time someone complained about PHP. It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now.
  - embedding-shape 5mo ago
    I don't see how it cannot be true. Are you claiming that every developer who uses the same LLM harness + model would produce equal code, regardless of the prompt? That's clearly not true in my experience, and I cannot understand how it could be either. And if that's not true, then it's quite literally about how you're holding this hammer.
    - malfist 5mo ago
      There's a cowboy artist that paints with his penis and does amazing work. If I tried that it'd turn out incredibly poorly, I prefer to paint with paintbrushes. Just because the naked cowboy can paint well with just his penis, doesn't mean a penis is the right tool for painting. It doesn't matter how you hold your penis, it's not the right tool.
      - freedomben 5mo ago
        > There's a cowboy artist that paints with his penis and does amazing work. If I tried that it'd turn out incredibly poorly, I prefer to paint with paintbrushes. I can't decide which joke to make, either (little dick joke) "well yeah you'd have to be able to see your paintbrush in order to use it" or (big dick joke) "well yeah, if you can't even hold it in two hands, how are you supposed to paint with it?" so I'll just make both :-D
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SlinkyOnStairs 5mo ago
There are two possibilities here: 1) This tool breaks the Claude TUI. Exactly as described by the comment. 2) The Claude TUI itself is broken. The comment is wrong, but assuming the "billion dollar TUI product" is capable of basic rendering and it's the wrapper that broke it, that is an entirely reasonable assumption The fun here is that both of these softwares were made extensively using AI. No matter which of our options is the case here, the point stands. An AI-built product was shown, it looks obviously ass.
- kstenerud 5mo ago
  The issue is likely that the tmux session being generated is for some reason not propagating all term caps. Most likely it's an interop issue between tmux and docker and the image running under docker - possibly even something with the terminal client that the pipeline doesn't like somewhere. Claude Code correctly reduces its display to 7-bit ASCII in response (still functional, although less pretty). Once I get around to fixing this, it will probably result in another section in https://github.com/kstenerud/yoloai/blob/main/docs/dev/backend-idiosyncrasies.md https://github.com/kstenerud/yoloai/blob/main/docs/dev/backe... Edit: Looks like it's the terminal. That's a rabbit hole for another day. Running through VS Code's terminal via VSCode tunnel, it looks like it normally does. https://freeimage.host/i/BySkkDN https://freeimage.host/i/BySkkDN
  - oooyay 5mo ago
    What's really interesting in this comment chain is an observation I've expressed a lot more lately. When someone knows an LLM was involved they raise their expectations. I do it too in my own work and I have to remind myself things like "this bug would've also likely occurred with a human working at this level of complexity." The real question is did the operator arbitrarily and knowingly increase the level of complexity or is it appropriate for the task.
    - draftsman 5mo ago
      And there’s good reason for that. Anthropic, OpenAI, Salesforce, and so on have aggressively marketed LLMs as better than humans at working. It’s no surprise when we find out something is build using an LLM, we expect it to match the marketing.
gcr 5mo ago
They’re talking past each other. For some, “high quality” is a comment about implementation elegance. For others, “high quality” is about duct-taping crude implementations together to fashion a kickass user experience. To most, quality probably involves some convex combination of these.
my-next-account 5mo ago
I have used those tools, I don't think they're THAT good tbh :P
godelski 5mo ago
I use claude every single day at work. I've burned hundreds of dollars a week in tokens. But I still think you're being too defensive while attacking Philip. I'm sorry, but you need to look yourself in the mirror. You didn't like what they said so you jumped to the assumption that they must not have used CC (or any other agent). That if they had, they would have the same experience as you did/do. But this whole thread is exactly that conversation, that those experiences aren't shared. That this assumption is baseless. And you know what? That's okay. We're not robots. We're human. Each of us has our own unique world we live in. It's okay that people don't have the same experience as you. It's okay that their favorite color, food, activity, or whatever isn't the same as yours. I'm glad that we live in that kind of world. That's what makes things like culture. I don't want to live in a hive mind, and I don't think anyone else does either.

Philip-J-Fry 5mo ago

I have tried Claude code. It doesn't look like that! I don't know what the project is. All I see is a TUI that looks completely broken. Go and use Claude Code right now. Does it look like that? Random underscores all over the page. No it doesn't.

walthamstow 5mo ago
It can look like that in certain conditions. The question is why are you so eager to give critique on unrelated work, appearing in a demo screencap, to someone who didn't produce it?
- Philip-J-Fry 5mo ago
  I don't know what you're talking about. His tool wraps Claude and breaks the TUI. What's so hard to understand? That's valid critique. What world have I woke up in today?
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
  - walthamstow 5mo ago
    To be honest I assumed it was the screencap software running a basic terminal env without bells and whistles that CC needs, which I've seen before. If the actual tool functions like that too, that's not great. That said, it works for them, it works for them.
    - gilrain 5mo ago
      But earlier: > The question is why are you so eager to give critique on unrelated work, appearing in a demo screencap, to someone who didn't produce it? I guess the question was actually, why were you so eager to critique a critique based on a false assumption? I wish people would be careful what they support with their rhetoric.
- albedoa 5mo ago
  > The question is why are you so eager to give critique on unrelated work That is not the question. The topic of discussion had been defined multiple times before you commented!

embedding-shape 5mo ago

> Take it up with Anthropic. It's actually their billion-dollar TUI product you're commenting on. That's like blaming the company making hammers because you're unable to build a lasting house with the hammer, it really isn't up to Anthropic, but all about how you use the tool you're holding.

malfist 5mo ago
This analogy was trotted out every time someone complained about PHP. It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now.
- embedding-shape 5mo ago
  I don't see how it cannot be true. Are you claiming that every developer who uses the same LLM harness + model would produce equal code, regardless of the prompt? That's clearly not true in my experience, and I cannot understand how it could be either. And if that's not true, then it's quite literally about how you're holding this hammer.
  - malfist 5mo ago
    There's a cowboy artist that paints with his penis and does amazing work. If I tried that it'd turn out incredibly poorly, I prefer to paint with paintbrushes. Just because the naked cowboy can paint well with just his penis, doesn't mean a penis is the right tool for painting. It doesn't matter how you hold your penis, it's not the right tool.
    - freedomben 5mo ago
      > There's a cowboy artist that paints with his penis and does amazing work. If I tried that it'd turn out incredibly poorly, I prefer to paint with paintbrushes. I can't decide which joke to make, either (little dick joke) "well yeah you'd have to be able to see your paintbrush in order to use it" or (big dick joke) "well yeah, if you can't even hold it in two hands, how are you supposed to paint with it?" so I'll just make both :-D

deleted 5mo ago

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SlinkyOnStairs 5mo ago

There are two possibilities here: 1) This tool breaks the Claude TUI. Exactly as described by the comment. 2) The Claude TUI itself is broken. The comment is wrong, but assuming the "billion dollar TUI product" is capable of basic rendering and it's the wrapper that broke it, that is an entirely reasonable assumption The fun here is that both of these softwares were made extensively using AI. No matter which of our options is the case here, the point stands. An AI-built product was shown, it looks obviously ass.

kstenerud 5mo ago
The issue is likely that the tmux session being generated is for some reason not propagating all term caps. Most likely it's an interop issue between tmux and docker and the image running under docker - possibly even something with the terminal client that the pipeline doesn't like somewhere. Claude Code correctly reduces its display to 7-bit ASCII in response (still functional, although less pretty). Once I get around to fixing this, it will probably result in another section in https://github.com/kstenerud/yoloai/blob/main/docs/dev/backend-idiosyncrasies.md https://github.com/kstenerud/yoloai/blob/main/docs/dev/backe... Edit: Looks like it's the terminal. That's a rabbit hole for another day. Running through VS Code's terminal via VSCode tunnel, it looks like it normally does. https://freeimage.host/i/BySkkDN https://freeimage.host/i/BySkkDN
- oooyay 5mo ago
  What's really interesting in this comment chain is an observation I've expressed a lot more lately. When someone knows an LLM was involved they raise their expectations. I do it too in my own work and I have to remind myself things like "this bug would've also likely occurred with a human working at this level of complexity." The real question is did the operator arbitrarily and knowingly increase the level of complexity or is it appropriate for the task.
  - draftsman 5mo ago
    And there’s good reason for that. Anthropic, OpenAI, Salesforce, and so on have aggressively marketed LLMs as better than humans at working. It’s no surprise when we find out something is build using an LLM, we expect it to match the marketing.

gcr 5mo ago

They’re talking past each other. For some, “high quality” is a comment about implementation elegance. For others, “high quality” is about duct-taping crude implementations together to fashion a kickass user experience. To most, quality probably involves some convex combination of these.

my-next-account 5mo ago

I have used those tools, I don't think they're THAT good tbh :P

godelski 5mo ago

I use claude every single day at work. I've burned hundreds of dollars a week in tokens. But I still think you're being too defensive while attacking Philip. I'm sorry, but you need to look yourself in the mirror. You didn't like what they said so you jumped to the assumption that they must not have used CC (or any other agent). That if they had, they would have the same experience as you did/do. But this whole thread is exactly that conversation, that those experiences aren't shared. That this assumption is baseless. And you know what? That's okay. We're not robots. We're human. Each of us has our own unique world we live in. It's okay that people don't have the same experience as you. It's okay that their favorite color, food, activity, or whatever isn't the same as yours. I'm glad that we live in that kind of world. That's what makes things like culture. I don't want to live in a hive mind, and I don't think anyone else does either.