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Police Raid 9-Year-Old Pirate Bay Girl
- gavanwoolery 14y agoI'm not going to lie, this might be the best headline ever.
- barredo 14y agoI hope it's not too off-topic to say that I thought someone sent a TheOnion article to HN.
- xentronium 14y agoIt made me wonder if there were any theonion articles on hn. It turns out, there were a couple of them that even received comments and upvotes, but not much for the last 3 years. My guess is that submissions from theonion are auto-banned. [1] http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/submissions&q=theonion.com&sortby=create_ts+desc&start=0 http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/submissions&q=the...
- rimantas 14y agoThat is kinda sad, actually. Many articles on The Onion are more intellectually stimulating than stuff on HN front page.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- viseztrance 14y agoI think that's my issue with the entire story. It's over-sensationalist. Of course, I have to believe that, or risk losing faith in humanity altogether.
- Maakuth 14y agoAt least TF coverage seems to be fairly faithful to original information spread over Facebook in Finnish. Of course it's harder to know for sure what the actual facts are behind this.
- kevinAlbs 14y agoI thought the same thing. Although it is unsettling to see how copyright infringement is turning into witch hunts this was still probably the funniest thing I've read all day.
- ashray 14y agoClicked through to the article hoping to see a picture of the laptop. Was not disappointed! :) On topic though, this just shows how ridiculous the MAFIAA is getting these days. Unfortunately, this episode played out negatively on the artist as well - who probably had nothing to do with the event. So piracy harms the artist, but in this case the MAFIAA hurt the artist even more by prosecuting someone for it [1] ? Not sure if that's justice, but it feels quite strange to think about it. [1] - The article says that the artist experienced a serious backlash on her facebook page from enraged fans.
- lambada 14y agoGiven this wasn't related to the RIAA/MPAA (given that this wasn't a US case), I wouldn't lay the blame directly at their door.
- SoftwareMaven 14y agoI think it's pretty safe to assume that most (if not all) of the copyright insanity worldwide stems from the RIAA/MPAA. It would be willing to bet a lot that if they became sane, most of the rest of the world would, too.
- ghostDancer 14y agoThe copyright laws in Spain have been modified from pressures made by the US government ,in fact Joe Biden on behalf of RIAA/MPAA, even threatening with commercial sanctions. I think we can extrapolate those pressures to the rest of the world. It was known as the Biden-Sinde law, now it has changed to Sinde-Wert (name of the ministers who obeyed the orders as seen in wikileaks).
- znowi 14y agoYes, the U.S. influence is enormous. Very visible in the case of Wikileaks. Their ability to alter another nation's laws at will is unnerving. I wonder how effective a technological solution may be, if they can easily find a judicial way around it. I think there should be the same zest in seeking justice for governments that wage wars and bankers that rob citizens, as it is for a 9 years old watching Winnie the Pooh.
- DiabloD3 14y agoI imagine the death throes of this dying industry are going to get worse before it gets better.
- meaty 14y agoYes but persecution of children is usually a good turning point where people start caring about the politics. According to my father, hardly anyone gave a shit about the stasi in east Germany until they started breaking families up. I imagine the same is true here, although I do worry about the corporate control of media world-wide and its ability to be paid to shill and keep quiet.
- philbarr 14y agoYes, it's always seemed odd to me, from a moral point of view, that it's perfectly fine for them to copy music easily (and hence make huge profits) but it's not ok for us to copy music. If you look at the history of the music business, musicians used to not make very much money and only got paid for gigs. If you were good you could ask for more from your punters per gig, and if you were REALLY good you could hold concerts and get paid much more. Seems we should go back to that model - musicians and the music industry get rewarded far beyond what they're worth in my opinion.
- jeremyjh 14y agoThat is still how it is for nearly all musicians. Even a platinum record will not make as much money as the accompanying tour for many bands.
- philbarr 14y agoYes, the problem is not the musicians per-se, it's the music industry that surrounds them. They make a fortune copying and selling music, and get all upset about it when other people want to copy music. I know there's a lot of effort that goes into creating and producing an album, but that's a pittance compared to how much an album will make. And it's not like they lose money investing in lots of different bands and only a few are successful - if they're not 100% sure the album will sell (say it's a new artist) then they only lend the money to the artists. It's a loan that carries interest and has to be paid back.
- lelandbatey 14y agoI really don't like the sensationalist "pull at the heart strings", vibe in this title. I it feels a bit misleading and over-dramatized just to cause controversy. I get what they're trying to say, I but there has to be a better way to say it.
- skrebbel 14y agoI'm pretty sure the headline is intended to be so over the top "pulling at the heart strings" as to be funny. Of course the fact that it's a cute girl's Winnie the Pooh laptop is irrelevant. I guess Torrentfreak expects their audience to understand that. At least, they had me laughing out loud.
- chris_wot 14y agoI wasn't sad, I was laughing! I mean, come on. Pirates cause organised crime to flourish and terrorists to be financed, right? What a dastedly 9 year old, with her Winnie the Pooh laptop! Incidentally, I'm sort of interested where you can get a Winnie the Pooh laptop as I have a 5 year old daughter.
- Evbn 14y agohttps://www.google.com/search?q=laptop%20decals https://www.google.com/search?q=laptop%20decals Try not to buy a pirated image.
- mtgx 14y agoIt's meant to mock the local RIAA and the copyright enforcement culture in general, and point at how ridiculous it has become. Maybe this way more people will hear about it, and then will start caring about it as well.
- belorn 14y agoSince when did this became normal and accepted in society? Whats next, police pulling candy from babies? or are we just going straight back to whip and flails to handle the dark and evil crime called copyright infringement! This is the definition of insanity. What is wrong with the people that was part of the chain of events that lead to taking a laptop from the hands of an 9 year old girl?
- DanBC 14y agoThe age of criminal responsibility in Finland is 15. So I'm at a loss at what is going to happen to this 9 year old girl. Certainly downloading music without paying for it is wrong. But there are much better ways of dealing with this than sending in the police. And justice needs to be public. (With a few rare exceptions). Forcing people to sign NDAs is creepy and weird. I'd be interested to know what would have happened if the father sent photocopies of the receipts for the music that they bought the next day - I like to think that would have been enough to call off the lawyers but I understand that it probably isn't.
- netcan 14y agoCertainly?
- DanBC 14y agoCertainly. Perhaps I needed a bit more clarification: "Downloading music that should be paid for, and not paying for it, is wrong if you keep that music for longer than you need to decide whether to buy it or not is wrong. Most people would make an exception for format shifting. EG you own a CD and download a pirate MP3. In theory this needs to be paid for (and is included in law in some areas) but in practice it's not much different to ripping your CD yourself."
- netcan 14y ago"if you keep that music for longer than you need to decide whether to buy it or not" I never understood how people came up with the caveat about trying before you buy. To me, it always seems to make a mockery of the whole thing even more. DOwnload an album. Listen for a couple of days. Go to the record store. Buy a CD. Throw it in the trash. Keep listening on your ipod guilt free, but still illegally. Anyway, my point is that a lot of people don't agree that downloading music without paying for it is wrong. You could argue the point but I you can't just dismiss it with a "we can all agree that.."
- esolyt 14y ago
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- netcan 14y agoHow do these NDAs work? Can they really demand that you pay them money and not tell anyone? Seems pretty creepy.
- robryan 14y agoYou always have the right to refuse though and have the courts sort it out, should they choose to pursue a case.
- ShaneOG 14y agoThe idea being that for "normal" people, doing anything through the civil justice system is far too expensive and time consuming than just paying out up front. So the choice is simply: Pay X up front and promise not to tell anyone, then be left alone OR Don't pay, attempt to fight it in court (using lawyers/solicitors/barristers) and absorbing the cost of this upfront yourself, regardless of the outcome.
- jQueryIsAwesome 14y agoNew start up idea; propose the same deal to everyone that is likely to not fight in court.
- Evbn 14y agoThat's not new, that is the tort law industry.
- DigitalSea 14y agoIf you or I tried to do this, we'd be sued into oblivion for blackmail because that's what this is, blackmail. Pay us money and we won't tell on you. This world is messed up.
- jrogers65 14y agoI believe that this is a side effect of the corporatist political system we find ourselves in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism Some interesting quotes on the subject - http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/corporatism http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/corporatism
- aidos 14y agoI'm listening to the album in question now, the artist has definitely come out of it ok :)
- jeremyjh 14y agoI'm not listening to it right now. They are totally screwed.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- joeycfan 14y agoThem Winnie-the-Pooh laptops is dangerous! Well done, police!
- madaxe 14y agoThey should execute this filthy pirate. She is clearly single-handedly responsible for all poor music sales in at least the last 15 years. Wait, no, this is utterly irrational and harms the MAFIAA's cause. I say bring on more lawsuits against neonates, foeti and octogenarians - they'll scupper their own cause pretty swiftly as they lampoon themselves.
- Nux 14y agoThis is insane! Using the "law" to get to this unprecedented levels of harassment against KIDS! I mean, for fuck's sake: THINK OF THE KIDS! I honestly want to see more and more of this, there's an already growing wave of anti-MAFIAA and this kind of abuses will only make it bigger and meaner. The bubble will burst at some point and it won't be pleasant.
- Zenst 14y agoJust as worrying is the level of IT the people who take the laptop and other IT equipment away actualy have. They could image the laptop, but no they take it away, leave it in a pile for months and then return it knowing full well that any data is not biometricaly tagged with any individual and as such a good lawyer would stamp all over it. TCP/IP in effect could be deemed entrapment in how it works. Sad thing is I have music CD's that now over 20-30 years old are rusting a bit and some are unplayable. I would not moraly have an issue of getting a replacement via the internet for the cost of my time and internet. Now I know it is wrong and I should not have to spend my time and internet obtaining what I already paid for and was misold as a undistructable media at the time, but I'm a fair chap. But those that enforce there copyrights are not fair. I have a file on all my computers called do not open without prior permision, its a realy evil file with compression bomb embeded picture saying "piss off" after about 50+ layers. If somebody investigates my computers without my permission or following the instructions to use my computer then that person will waste alot of there time. OK I now need some illegal mp3's but nobody is perfect and with that this is yet another case of the system being highlighted for what it is, messed up and moraly wrong.
- spaminator 14y agoYes because if they imaged the laptop that would make it all better. 9 year old girl downloading music -> payup and shutup or be taken away. Is the Mafia minus the class. It's damn scary. I couldn't find a youtube clip of Christian Rock Hard by South Park http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3dHKtpxyfw&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3dHKtpxyfw&feature=relat...
- csense 14y agoIt's probably more the police mentality of "they're suspects, they must be guilty, we know if we can't prove it in court they'll get off, so let's do everything in our power to make their lives as crappy as possible." Including tying up stuff they know the family needs as "evidence" as long as they think can get away with, returning it in as poor a state as they think they can get away with...and the guy's already admitted EUR 600 will put him out of Christmas, they know there's no way he can afford to sue the police, all his money will be spent on his legal troubles with the MAFIAA...
- lysol 14y agoYikes, I wouldn't let a 9 year old go to the Pirate Bay on her own. Unless you're running adblock there are some pretty R-rated banner ads on TPB.
- Tenoke 14y agoThis is pretty disturbing given that she only downloaded one album a year ago (or at least thats all they seem to be pinning on this family).
- antidoh 14y agoDon't buy music controlled by the RIAA. Just don't. The only way to stop them is to starve them. They're major campaign contributors, so the law will never be on our side until they're gone. And by the way, don't download said music from sharing sites or friends. Artists need to see that we won't pay them any attention, with wallets or ears, if they associate with known extortionists.
- m_for_monkey 14y agoNo, artists need to see an alternative way of distribution to realize, how can they make it big without the "help" of leeches.
- antidoh 14y agoArtists need to come up with alternative distribution themselves if it's important to them.
- nanook 14y agoHow do you tell what music is controlled by the RIAA?
- AlexandrB 14y agoFiguring out which labels are and are not RIAA affiliated has become more difficult in recent years. My former go-to place for this information, riaa radar, no longer exists, and the RIAA members page (http://riaa.com/aboutus.php?content_selector=aboutus_members http://riaa.com/aboutus.php?content_selector=aboutus_members) is of questionable accuracy. For example, until recently Matador records was listed as a member. I emailed Matador and they basically told me that RIAA keeps re-listing them without permission. I don't follow the music industry closely enough to know which other labels are mis-listed as RIAA members, but I'm certain the number is non-zero.
- Cieplak 14y agoIt is also possible that Matador does belong to the group but has told you they do not.
- shusso 14y agoI've thought that in Finland the reason to get a search warrant needs that the minimum punishment for the crime is 6mo in jail. When did the punishment for copyright infringement went from fines to jailtime :O Or am I missing here something..
- potkor 14y agoWhen they last revised the criminal law wrt copyright. It's actually a triply evil twist. First (1) new law says that only for the criminal form can you get jail time, and you need to be making a profit to turn it from a minor offense to a crime. Then (2) they the added in the last paragraph of the relevant section that if a computer network is involved and there's "significant damage" to the rightholder, it's also the criminal form. And then (3) the courts made it the sentencing practice that it's "significant damage" even in cases like this. link (finnish):http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1889/18890039001#e-53 http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1889/18890039001#e-53 chapter 49 last paragraph
- ommunist 14y agoWhat I have to say. Play your own music. Create it. Educate your kids how to drum, and what to do with the piano. Never sell your own music, let people listen. They'll be the most grateful.
- mannjani 14y agoWhere the hell is the world going?
- csense 14y agoIf I was a billionaire looking for ways to burn money, I'd set up a legal defense fund for MAFIAA victims. We wouldn't have go broke defending everyone they sue. All it takes is a few cases to establish their abusive practices and suddenly courts start looking at them as "vexatious litigants" who file lawsuits in bad faith; abuse court procedure by e.g. jurisdiction shopping; using the court's subpoena power to get names and addresses for the sole purpose of extorting settlements with no intention of actually going to court; improperly joining hundreds or thousands of unrelated cases to save on filing fees. When they realize someone who has the money and willingness to sue them is looking at these cases very carefully, suddenly the police fall in line and start going "by the book" and following their own procedures: Only taking evidence that's actually needed, only keeping it as long as it's needed, and returning it in good condition. Again, all we have to do is have a few successful cases and we can prevent thousands from going through what's happening in this story.
- hayksaakian 14y agoPiracy law is getting absurd. Imagine if this girl simply shoplifted the music, its entirely reasonable that if she was caught that shed get a slap on the wrist and if anything, no where near a 600 fine.
- pg 14y agoThis is the reductio ad absurdum of current law. We need to work more actively to make this sort of thing stop. There are a range of solutions. We could try to change the laws. We could develop technology that would make it harder to catch file-sharers. We could attack the labels directly by trying to pinch off the sources of their revenue. I'm not sure which would work the best. My guess is that they're better at manipulating legislators, and the way to beat them is technology. So here's a question for everyone: What new technology would harm the labels most?
- ubershmekel 14y agohttp://bandcamp.com/ http://bandcamp.com/ Edit: I'll explain. Cutting the middleman is the big idea though band camp isn't enough for that. The big labels have very strong marketing capabilities that individual acts can't compete with. Even YouTube, the land of indie, is dominated by the large labels. So maybe bandcamp needs a breakthrough marketing/distribution/discovery platform that can somehow be more meritocratic.
- nikatwork 14y agoBandcamp is glorious. I end up buying loads of music there because it's easy, high-quality and I feel like I'm supporting the artists directly, not just lining someone else's pockets. Agree discovery is a problem. I rely on blogs for that but it's pretty niche.
- antonID 14y agoI agree that the laws shouldn't be as crazy as they are now, but why make it harder to catch file-sharers? It's illegal to share stuff like this, and I don't see any justifiable reason why this shouldn't be illegal. However, it should be a small fine in my opinion, and it's a waste of time to break down the doors of these people downloading music unless they are making a ton of money by selling this pirated content.
- jkn 14y agoI don't see any justifiable reason why this shouldn't be illegal Because sharing is good and it's not our problem if the currently dominant business model has troubles with it? Even if you think that sharing music freely should not be allowed, the fact remains that we are dealing with an industry that refuses to adapt to new technologies and new customer expectations, and engages in despicable conduct to preserve their outdated business model, as this story illustrates. In this view, accelerating the change, or doom, of this industry is rendering a service to society. Letting them go after file sharers is simply helping them resist change, and only by fighting the symptoms (we're losing some sales) rather than the causes (it's easier to "pirate" than to download legally, legal downloads are too expensive and impose unwanted restrictions).
- stevewillows 14y agoThe trouble with running an indie label is that you rely heavily on grant money (usually through the government). The major labels are the only ones who can execute non-organic marketing strategies (billboards, commercials etc). Even the deals that people are signing these days aren't in their best interest. Often a band will sign only to never have anything released by the label. The kicker is that the label still owns anything that band (even as individuals) make for a period of time. You're essentially treated like a movie script.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- Futurebot 14y agoWhat's amazing to me that in the past 10 years, so much has changed with regard to the music industry (streaming radio, MP3s becoming ubiquitous at mainstream e-commerce sites, everyone with a music player/smartphone in their pocket, etc.) and yet how little has changed (lawsuits, the laws themselves, and the general insanity around the topic.) A glimpse into these same conversations from the previous era: http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/6/21/73329/8778 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/6/21/73329/8778 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/7/31/205359/166 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2001/7/31/205359/166 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/5/16/163447/493 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/5/16/163447/493 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/6/21/215822/505 http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/6/21/215822/505
- lttlrck 14y agoif Anonymous want something useful to do they should start hounding these lawyers...
- JacksonGariety 14y agoRemind anyone else of Terry' Gilliam's Brazil? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay0TDQuq7XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay0TDQuq7XI
- chris_wot 14y agoThe original title was much better. Why was it changed?
- lrobb 14y agoThat's some unfortunate grammar.