8 ms·

The challenge isn't buying it, the challenge is being able to do phone things with it. Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Most thing

The challenge isn't buying it, the challenge is being able to do phone things with it. Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Most things will work but it takes one critical service that doesn't have a viable workaround, and you're forced to buy (and possibly carry) a "mainstream" phone just for that. Banking, government, authentication, postal service and public transit apps are just some of the common categories that will, in the end, force you to use one of those systems, unless governments mandate viable alternatives. The QR-code based recaptcha that's being introduced will be another brick in the wall. As an individual, it feels like my options are to either submit or try to live a hermit's life, bringing endless suffering and exclusion to myself.

t1234s 5mo ago
Bingo.. we will all need to pick which prison we walk ourselves in to: Google or Apple
SoftTalker 5mo ago
You can exist, but life will be as inconvenient as it was in the 1990s (though importantly, it didn't seem inconvenient at the time, it was just the way things were).
- amunozo 5mo ago
  I disagree. You cannot even book appointments in a lot of banks today, a thing you could do in the 90s. Like that, a lot of services are unavailable without a smartphone and its non-smartphone equivalent is not available anymore.
  - SoftTalker 5mo ago
    Not my experience. I'm in the USA, and there are still bank branches everywhere, I'd say as many as ever and new ones are being built. In fact within a mile of my house the finishing touches on the latest new one (full remodel of a former restaurant building) are just about done.
    - aembleton 5mo ago
      > I'd say as many as ever and new ones are being built. That's an amazing difference compared to the UK. My local town had 5 bank branches ten years ago, now there are none. Until 2 weeks ago we didn't even have a cash machine; fortunately there is one now. It is something that has rapidly changed in the last 15 years.
  - bdangubic 5mo ago
    Why does this permeate the HN all the time. You can 100% function without a fucking smartphone. My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and just about every other imaginable thing. If there was something he could not do and there were repercussions for it he’d be calling an attorney to rectify the situation. It is crazy to keep reading this over and over on HN, so weird
    - willio58 5mo ago
      Yep, many older people right now don’t have a smart phone and never will. As long as some younger people stay that course we should be fine. Hopefully we’ll see an increase of dumb phone adoption in a growing cohort younger adults. But the FUD spread in threads like this actually spreads misinformation and makes that less likely to happen
      - brewdad 5mo ago
        And those older people frequently have to ask someone in their life who has a smartphone to assist them. They still need a smartphone to manage modern life they just don’t happen to own the phone they need.
    - pjmlp 5mo ago
      In Portugal you have to do that at the bank terminals, otherwise going to the counter implies paying a services tax, depending on the kind of customer one happens to be.
    - spankibalt 5mo ago
      > "Why does this permeate the HN all the time." It's a bias, an in-bubble illiteracy effect, concerning the perception and analysis of realities (e. g. experiences) outside that bubble, mirroring an in-group's projections about an out-group. It is, in my decades of experience, a very common phenomenon in the IT sector. > "My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and just about every other imaginable thing." So far, that holds true for me as well (Germany). > "If there was something he could not do and there were repercussions for it he’d be calling an attorney to rectify the situation." The crux: the increasing friction brought on by rising technological entry barriers. In Germany you have at least the non-exclusion principle of Teilhabe (lit.: participation) which gives certain guarantees. But such achievements of democracy are continually under fire.
  - gib444 5mo ago
    I walked into my bank the other day and sorted out something, without an appointment. Just joined an informal queue (no digital queueing system! The humans used their eyes and brain to remember who next ) Handed over my physical debit card so they could locate my account. What digital hellscape do you live in? UK here
  - epolanski 5mo ago
    This. 1. My bank doesn't allow to go in person without an in-app taken appointment. 2. My nephew can't play football in his team, because the team has an app to book/signal your availability. No other way. 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't. 4. McDonald's will make me pay the scam pricing you get without the app. 5. My doctor gives documentation only and exclusively in digital form, on a special application that doesn't even have a desktop equivalent. 6. My fiance's office badges are smartphone-based. You cannot enter otherwise. 7. All the software she uses at work requires frequent Google/Apple/third party authentication. 8. Increasingly more European airlines exclusively accept in-app check in and documentation. You cannot print it. Ryanair's one of them. I could go on for longer.
    - ssttoo 5mo ago
      I recently skipped a concert at the YouTube theater in LA because my phone is too old for Ticketmaster or Hollywood Park apps. Even though you can go and buy a ticket at the box office they have to send you the ticket to the app. No option to print it or any non-app way.
      - epolanski 5mo ago
        Oh that true! I've been in multiple clubs/events that you can enter exclusively after having downloaded the app.
    - troyvit 5mo ago
      > 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't. Not knocking this list, the shit is real. But I just had a lovely imaginary conversation with a server asking them what they would recommend and then trying something brand new.
      - chias 5mo ago
        I've had this conversation for real. The server's recommendation was that I scan the QR code. That was my last time going to that restaurant.
  - svl 5mo ago
    This might be country specific? Specifically dependent on laws in the fields of consumer-protection and keeping things universally accessible. I don't own a smartphone. I have never owned a smartphone. There are inconveniences, and big organizations definitely try to push you toward the way of doing things which has the lowest costs for them - but there are no actual blockers. There is always a path involving actual humans, and regular phone calls (or emails or paper forms). Reactions tend to be wistful variations of "I wish I could" or "but how do you?" - and it's really always about the most trivial inconveniences.
    - amunozo 5mo ago
      To be honest, I never tried, but I see for example the removal of more and more procedures in person. In Spain where I'm from or Switzerland where I live it can be still manageable, but in the Nordic countries for example everything is digital and even cash is barely existent. A lot of payments are made by phone apps only.
      - usr1106 5mo ago
        I am from Nordic country. I did not use any cash, had no wallet for several years. It's not needed. After the US government acting like it does I mostly stopped using cards. Like with phone OSes a US-controlled duopoly. Cash does not to need to be used anywere, but cards can be avoided for weeks until I need to use it again. Most can be handled by cash or bank transfer without problems. For phones I have not any Google Android or iOS until a year ago. Nowdays I have a Google work phone, but it's always in flight mode except when a pay my lunch subsidized by employer. I type this comment on my Sailfish device and I use a degoogled Android. Can cause minor inconvenienance occasionally, but rarely enough to turn on my work phone.
        deaux 5mo ago
        > Cash does not to need to be used anywere, but cards can be avoided for weeks until I need to use it again. Your experience sounds interesting but I can't infer what this sentence means.
  - seb1204 5mo ago
    You should be able to do all that from a computer at home right? The times I needed to do serious banking on the go are limited. Yes convenient, but replaceable with a 10 minute session at home using my Firefox or similar on Linux.
- everyone 5mo ago
  I dont have a personal smartphone (I do have a pile of them in my office for testing software I make) but I dont use one myself. Its fine, I can do my banking and whatever. I live in Ireland.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5mo ago
  > as inconvenient as it was in the 1990s That's not true, because in the 1990s there was no presumption that everyone has a major-vendor smartphone. Now, the ways to do things without a smartphone are often disappearing, so things are more inconvenient. For example, ticket machines and printed schedules for public transit are going away in many places.
  - SoftTalker 5mo ago
    I don't have any usable public transit where I live but the place where I'm familiar with it is Chicago and all the train stations have ticket machines. Bus stops no, but you can pay on the bus with a payment card, transit card, or an app. Cash fares are no longer accepted for some time. I miss the old tokens they used to use. So simple, anonymous, easy to share with traveling companions, though could be annoying when you ran out.
- abc123abc123 5mo ago
  Inconvenient? My life is super convenient. No stress, deep thinking and deep work, super focus and concentration. What I would find inconvenient is to be like the smartphone zombies around me, adicted to their phones, restlessly doomscrolling with dead eyes, feeling empty inside. Print some stuff from time to time or arguing my way through tickets offices is a small price to pay for not being enslaved to the IT-machine.
bdangubic 5mo ago
> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. millions of people would like a word… > Most things will work but it takes one critical service that doesn't have a viable workaround, and you're forced to buy (and possibly carry) a "mainstream" phone just for that. Absolutely not, if there is “critical service” that requires an iPhone or Android you call an attorney. > Banking, government, authentication, postal service and public transit apps are just some of the common categories that will, in the end, force you to use one of those systems, unless governments mandate viable alternatives. There are now and there always will be alternatives > As an individual, it feels like my options are to either submit or try to live a hermit's life, bringing endless suffering and exclusion to myself. As an individual you can and should fight any system that forces you into buying a smartphone. Alternatives must exist even if they might be “incovenient” (e.g. have to do it browser vs. via some “App”)
- dheera 5mo ago
  Browser is great until it tells you that you need to use a mobile device. This happens all the time on multiple KYC platforms in the US. My laptop is an equally mobile device, they just don't recognize that.
  - zephen 5mo ago
    So far, I have only found this with T-Mobile's app. The good news is that I can go into the nearby T-Mobile store and have them deal with it.
    - bdangubic 5mo ago
      I would immediately change my mobile service provider, this is an easy one and choices are plenty. financially as well, you can save yourself a lot of money if you have a cadence for switching providers
      - zephen 5mo ago
        Maybe. I have 7 lines with unlimited data for under $150.
gib444 5mo ago
> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone If my phone breaks, I will die? :) Perhaps it's this spreading of this lie that it's impossible to live without a phone that is contributing to the problem
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5mo ago
  No, but you will likely be inconvenienced to a similar level as losing your house keys, and lose access to important services. You won't immediately die, because most people can survive for quite some time on nothing but questionable river water and a piece of cardboard under a bridge, but there is a difference between survival and existing in society.
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
  - aleph_minus_one 5mo ago
    > No, but you will likely be inconvenienced to a similar level as losing your house keys, and lose access to important services. Because you made yourself dependent on these smartphone-only services beforehand. Don't do that.
    - brandonr49 5mo ago
      More likely the services transformed into smartphone only when the user wasn't looking. Switching costs are not zero.
epolanski 5mo ago
How about a second phone for the things you list?
logicchains 5mo ago
I'd wager the majority of people on this site could afford $100-$200 for a separate phone that's solely used for apps that mandate Google/Apple services. As a bonus, using the "mainstream" phone with only those apps increases security, compared to having your banking apps on the same phone as other random apps.
stdatomic 5mo ago
There was a time back in covid days where you had to have an app on your phone to go through customs clearance in Canada.
- dandandandan2 5mo ago
  I flew from Canada to Australia during deep Covid ($15k flight, mandatory locked in hotel for 10 days for $3k, etc) I don’t have a phone.
- abc123abc123 5mo ago
  I flew all over europe, no smart phone, no mask. I printed my own doctors notes and corona passports and they worked flawlessly everywhere. Towards the end, I copied other peoples QR-codes and printed them out, and that worked nicely as well.
- deaux 5mo ago
  I refuse to believe that's true. That they were denying Dorothy (92) from going through customs because she couldn't use an app. That's an extraordinary claim. If they weren't denying Dorothy, that means you did not need an app.
  - vivekd 5mo ago
    It was compulsory during COVID and it became optional later https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArriveCAN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArriveCAN
    - deaux 5mo ago
      From what I'm reading, non-users weren't and couldn't have actually been denied entry. It wouldn't have held up in court either. They could be made to quarantine.
O1111OOO 5mo ago
> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Is it the phone or just the mobile operating system? I do most of my phone stuff on a tablet that I keep at home - where it's safer. I am currently using an Android phone (without an account) for GPS, phone calls (contacts), internet, games, email (alternatives to google), etc... But for those critical and sensitive apps (banking, etc)... I consider those to be too dangerous to be walking around with. So any phone will serve (I can wait to get home to check email for example).
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5mo ago
  That doesn't solve for services that by definition need to be accessed on the go, e.g. public transit, parcel pickup, luggage lockers, rental bikes, restaurant menus, paying for parking, etc. (some of these may not mandate phones in your area yet or may allow mobile web alternatives, these are just examples where I've seen strong pushes towards apps or at leas in many places).
  - thewebguyd 5mo ago
    We'd need regulation for that. Either a mandate that the digital option is optional, and services must have an alternative means, or a mandate that any app based service also has an equally viable mobile web option, making the app optional. Tbh I see no reason why all of that couldn't just be a website instead of a native app. Menus should just be a website, transit should still be offering physical metro cards, the lockers & bikes could just as easily be a website. Folks on HN won't like this ida but quite frankly I'd go a step further and have a mandate that services like these must offer an API for the public to use in order to bring their own app/solution. It'd be nice to not be limited to exclusively first party options. How ridiculous is it that there are so many different pay for parking apps, when if all of them just offered an API I could roll my one all in one parking web app, etc. I'd even pay a subscription, like many of these services offer already, for API access instead.
  - Insimwytim 5mo ago
    > restaurant menus Well, that's easy to deal with - don't go the restaurants that openly disrespect you. Out of all the examples you have presented everything had worked somehow without phones not so long ago. Maybe, with the exception of online public transit status streaming. And public transit still works without it.
brookst 5mo ago
It’s always been the case. In previous eras people were “forced” to use mastercard / visa, Windows, AT&T, Western Union, East India Company, Templar bnking, etc. I am not remotely defending the situation, past or present, just saying it’s a recurring theme.
api 5mo ago
It's mind blowing that we've allowed the development of a de-factor personal ID device absolutely controlled by an oligopoly of two private corporations. Do people realize that this means either of these companies, since they can remotely turn off your account or device, can deplatform you from society including from many government services? It's an astounding amount of power we have simply ceded to these two companies.
- bigbadfeline 5mo ago
  > It's an astounding amount of power we have simply ceded to these two companies. We didn't do it, our representatives did it for us, mostly unaware of what they were doing and still without a clue about what to do with whatever they've created. No they can't, and they won't, academia BS isn't helping anyone either.
- pbgcp2026 5mo ago
  I know you are not going to like it, but it started when they took our guns. Now they took our jobs. Next is unified minimal global personal tax (seems to be decided at 30%). On unrealised capital gains. And phones? That's a smoke screen for you to look other way. (And to watch you all the time too)
1vuio0pswjnm7 5mo ago
"As an individual, it feels like my options are to either submit or try to live a hermit's life, bringing endless suffering and exclusion to myself." Classic "all-or-nothing", "black and white" HN comment No middle ground. Two extremes and nothing in between In the real world, few people think this way Not only that, but it's common today to have more than one computer There is no shortage of HN comments that keep claiming "banking apps" as an argument against any alternatives to using a single phone running a corporate mobile OS _for everything they do with a computer_, not just banking. Feels like a meme These people must do a lot of banking on the go in places where laptops, for instance, cannot travel. If so, one wonders why not just have a phone dedicated to mobile banking
- cindyllm 5mo ago
  [dead]
- jolmg 5mo ago
  This probably depends on location, but generally, you cannot log in to your bank account on your laptop/computer without using your phone's banking app for 2FA. That's the status quo among banks. Whether it may be possible to convince a bank to give you a hardware token instead if they even still make them is not an assured thing.
  - medvidek 5mo ago
    I have several accounts in different banks (across two different countries) and never had problems with using SMS as a second factor for internet banking. Definitely not status quo, at least in Europe.
    - tgsovlerkhgsel 5mo ago
      Interesting that you mention Europe, because if I remember correctly, at least in Germany, all banks that I'm aware of dropped SMS support when PSD2 was introduced.
    - microtonal 5mo ago
dandandandan2 5mo ago
> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone Hyperbole much. I’m a 44 year old software engin, I don’t have a phone. Have never had a smart phone, haven’t had a dumb phone since 2015. Some things are annoying, for example, I have to keep pushing my bank to let me use email not SMS. Going somewhere new I’ll look online on my laptop and jot down a few directions on paper. That’s about it. I snowboard and hike and hunt and camp and fish, no coverage doing all those anyway, so much of my life when not in a house with a laptop I simply don’t need or want one.
dandandandan2 5mo ago
> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone Hyperbole doesn’t help. I’m a 44 year old former software engineer now with a modest social media following (100k per platform). I don’t have a phone. I’ve never had a smart phone, last dumb phone gone in 2015. I have to hassle my bank to let me use email instead of SMS for 2FA, and I hand jot notes for driving directions sometimes. Otherwise, I’m immensely happy not to have one.
- slumberlust 5mo ago
  How could it be hyperbole when you give two examples of the increasing pain?
  - j_bum 5mo ago
    GP said “can no longer exist”. Listing a few challenges of a phoneless life doesn’t negate the point that one can still exist without a phone, even in 2026.
    - manincharge 5mo ago
      [dead]
  - abc123abc123 5mo ago
    Because these two examples are tiny in comparison with the decrease in surveillance you will get, and the example you set for your fellow men, and just spreading the norm in society that ubiquitous surveillance is wrong and that we can live ethical lives without being slaves and chained to the government and corporations.
    - cromka 5mo ago
      You still use the internet. Just avoiding a mobile phone is not a magic pill against surveillance.
      - 5mo ago
jjav 5mo ago
> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Fight this, fight it hard. It is not acceptable to have to pay a monthly fee to a giant corporation to participate in unrelated things. I do have a cell phone (grudgingly) but I go way out of my way to never use it. I tell every business I only have a landline phone (which I do have). I will not use anything that supposedly requires a phone, give me an alternative or you're not getting my business. While I don't have the full ethical commitment of RMS, I can be very obstinate and will push this hard.
- ShinyLeftPad 5mo ago
  > It is not acceptable to have to pay a monthly fee to a giant corporation to participate in unrelated things. Do you always have to pay a monthly fee with a smartphone? Are there pre-paid SIM cards?
  - jjav 5mo ago
    I have a cheap pre-paid plan (US Mobile). It's still a monthly fee though.
ProllyInfamous 5mo ago
>you can no longer exist in society without a phone. I do just fine without. But certainly there are additional challenges. In my city, for example, there has been a massive shift towards phone-pay parking... which excludes my paying for it — still waiting for my citation (to challenge in court). Carrying my pager with me is the only reason people will pretend-believe I'm actually phoneless. Many have never seen beeper technology, its one-way advancedness.

t1234s 5mo ago

Bingo.. we will all need to pick which prison we walk ourselves in to: Google or Apple

SoftTalker 5mo ago

You can exist, but life will be as inconvenient as it was in the 1990s (though importantly, it didn't seem inconvenient at the time, it was just the way things were).

amunozo 5mo ago
I disagree. You cannot even book appointments in a lot of banks today, a thing you could do in the 90s. Like that, a lot of services are unavailable without a smartphone and its non-smartphone equivalent is not available anymore.
- SoftTalker 5mo ago
  Not my experience. I'm in the USA, and there are still bank branches everywhere, I'd say as many as ever and new ones are being built. In fact within a mile of my house the finishing touches on the latest new one (full remodel of a former restaurant building) are just about done.
  - aembleton 5mo ago
    > I'd say as many as ever and new ones are being built. That's an amazing difference compared to the UK. My local town had 5 bank branches ten years ago, now there are none. Until 2 weeks ago we didn't even have a cash machine; fortunately there is one now. It is something that has rapidly changed in the last 15 years.
- bdangubic 5mo ago
  Why does this permeate the HN all the time. You can 100% function without a fucking smartphone. My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and just about every other imaginable thing. If there was something he could not do and there were repercussions for it he’d be calling an attorney to rectify the situation. It is crazy to keep reading this over and over on HN, so weird
  - willio58 5mo ago
    Yep, many older people right now don’t have a smart phone and never will. As long as some younger people stay that course we should be fine. Hopefully we’ll see an increase of dumb phone adoption in a growing cohort younger adults. But the FUD spread in threads like this actually spreads misinformation and makes that less likely to happen
    - brewdad 5mo ago
      And those older people frequently have to ask someone in their life who has a smartphone to assist them. They still need a smartphone to manage modern life they just don’t happen to own the phone they need.
  - pjmlp 5mo ago
    In Portugal you have to do that at the bank terminals, otherwise going to the counter implies paying a services tax, depending on the kind of customer one happens to be.
  - spankibalt 5mo ago
    > "Why does this permeate the HN all the time." It's a bias, an in-bubble illiteracy effect, concerning the perception and analysis of realities (e. g. experiences) outside that bubble, mirroring an in-group's projections about an out-group. It is, in my decades of experience, a very common phenomenon in the IT sector. > "My Dad doesn’t have one, he has zero-to-no trouble going to the bank and paying his bills and just about every other imaginable thing." So far, that holds true for me as well (Germany). > "If there was something he could not do and there were repercussions for it he’d be calling an attorney to rectify the situation." The crux: the increasing friction brought on by rising technological entry barriers. In Germany you have at least the non-exclusion principle of Teilhabe (lit.: participation) which gives certain guarantees. But such achievements of democracy are continually under fire.
- gib444 5mo ago
  I walked into my bank the other day and sorted out something, without an appointment. Just joined an informal queue (no digital queueing system! The humans used their eyes and brain to remember who next ) Handed over my physical debit card so they could locate my account. What digital hellscape do you live in? UK here
- epolanski 5mo ago
  This. 1. My bank doesn't allow to go in person without an in-app taken appointment. 2. My nephew can't play football in his team, because the team has an app to book/signal your availability. No other way. 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't. 4. McDonald's will make me pay the scam pricing you get without the app. 5. My doctor gives documentation only and exclusively in digital form, on a special application that doesn't even have a desktop equivalent. 6. My fiance's office badges are smartphone-based. You cannot enter otherwise. 7. All the software she uses at work requires frequent Google/Apple/third party authentication. 8. Increasingly more European airlines exclusively accept in-app check in and documentation. You cannot print it. Ryanair's one of them. I could go on for longer.
  - ssttoo 5mo ago
    I recently skipped a concert at the YouTube theater in LA because my phone is too old for Ticketmaster or Hollywood Park apps. Even though you can go and buy a ticket at the box office they have to send you the ticket to the app. No option to print it or any non-app way.
    - epolanski 5mo ago
      Oh that true! I've been in multiple clubs/events that you can enter exclusively after having downloaded the app.
  - troyvit 5mo ago
    > 3. Half of restaurants in my area do not have non-QR code menus, they just don't. Not knocking this list, the shit is real. But I just had a lovely imaginary conversation with a server asking them what they would recommend and then trying something brand new.
    - chias 5mo ago
      I've had this conversation for real. The server's recommendation was that I scan the QR code. That was my last time going to that restaurant.
- svl 5mo ago
  This might be country specific? Specifically dependent on laws in the fields of consumer-protection and keeping things universally accessible. I don't own a smartphone. I have never owned a smartphone. There are inconveniences, and big organizations definitely try to push you toward the way of doing things which has the lowest costs for them - but there are no actual blockers. There is always a path involving actual humans, and regular phone calls (or emails or paper forms). Reactions tend to be wistful variations of "I wish I could" or "but how do you?" - and it's really always about the most trivial inconveniences.
  - amunozo 5mo ago
    To be honest, I never tried, but I see for example the removal of more and more procedures in person. In Spain where I'm from or Switzerland where I live it can be still manageable, but in the Nordic countries for example everything is digital and even cash is barely existent. A lot of payments are made by phone apps only.
    - usr1106 5mo ago
      I am from Nordic country. I did not use any cash, had no wallet for several years. It's not needed. After the US government acting like it does I mostly stopped using cards. Like with phone OSes a US-controlled duopoly. Cash does not to need to be used anywere, but cards can be avoided for weeks until I need to use it again. Most can be handled by cash or bank transfer without problems. For phones I have not any Google Android or iOS until a year ago. Nowdays I have a Google work phone, but it's always in flight mode except when a pay my lunch subsidized by employer. I type this comment on my Sailfish device and I use a degoogled Android. Can cause minor inconvenienance occasionally, but rarely enough to turn on my work phone.
      - deaux 5mo ago
        > Cash does not to need to be used anywere, but cards can be avoided for weeks until I need to use it again. Your experience sounds interesting but I can't infer what this sentence means.
- seb1204 5mo ago
  You should be able to do all that from a computer at home right? The times I needed to do serious banking on the go are limited. Yes convenient, but replaceable with a 10 minute session at home using my Firefox or similar on Linux.
everyone 5mo ago
I dont have a personal smartphone (I do have a pile of them in my office for testing software I make) but I dont use one myself. Its fine, I can do my banking and whatever. I live in Ireland.
tgsovlerkhgsel 5mo ago
> as inconvenient as it was in the 1990s That's not true, because in the 1990s there was no presumption that everyone has a major-vendor smartphone. Now, the ways to do things without a smartphone are often disappearing, so things are more inconvenient. For example, ticket machines and printed schedules for public transit are going away in many places.
- SoftTalker 5mo ago
  I don't have any usable public transit where I live but the place where I'm familiar with it is Chicago and all the train stations have ticket machines. Bus stops no, but you can pay on the bus with a payment card, transit card, or an app. Cash fares are no longer accepted for some time. I miss the old tokens they used to use. So simple, anonymous, easy to share with traveling companions, though could be annoying when you ran out.
abc123abc123 5mo ago
Inconvenient? My life is super convenient. No stress, deep thinking and deep work, super focus and concentration. What I would find inconvenient is to be like the smartphone zombies around me, adicted to their phones, restlessly doomscrolling with dead eyes, feeling empty inside. Print some stuff from time to time or arguing my way through tickets offices is a small price to pay for not being enslaved to the IT-machine.

bdangubic 5mo ago

> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. millions of people would like a word… > Most things will work but it takes one critical service that doesn't have a viable workaround, and you're forced to buy (and possibly carry) a "mainstream" phone just for that. Absolutely not, if there is “critical service” that requires an iPhone or Android you call an attorney. > Banking, government, authentication, postal service and public transit apps are just some of the common categories that will, in the end, force you to use one of those systems, unless governments mandate viable alternatives. There are now and there always will be alternatives > As an individual, it feels like my options are to either submit or try to live a hermit's life, bringing endless suffering and exclusion to myself. As an individual you can and should fight any system that forces you into buying a smartphone. Alternatives must exist even if they might be “incovenient” (e.g. have to do it browser vs. via some “App”)

dheera 5mo ago
Browser is great until it tells you that you need to use a mobile device. This happens all the time on multiple KYC platforms in the US. My laptop is an equally mobile device, they just don't recognize that.
- zephen 5mo ago
  So far, I have only found this with T-Mobile's app. The good news is that I can go into the nearby T-Mobile store and have them deal with it.
  - bdangubic 5mo ago
    I would immediately change my mobile service provider, this is an easy one and choices are plenty. financially as well, you can save yourself a lot of money if you have a cadence for switching providers
    - zephen 5mo ago
      Maybe. I have 7 lines with unlimited data for under $150.

gib444 5mo ago

> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone If my phone breaks, I will die? :) Perhaps it's this spreading of this lie that it's impossible to live without a phone that is contributing to the problem

tgsovlerkhgsel 5mo ago
No, but you will likely be inconvenienced to a similar level as losing your house keys, and lose access to important services. You won't immediately die, because most people can survive for quite some time on nothing but questionable river water and a piece of cardboard under a bridge, but there is a difference between survival and existing in society.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- aleph_minus_one 5mo ago
  > No, but you will likely be inconvenienced to a similar level as losing your house keys, and lose access to important services. Because you made yourself dependent on these smartphone-only services beforehand. Don't do that.
  - brandonr49 5mo ago
    More likely the services transformed into smartphone only when the user wasn't looking. Switching costs are not zero.

epolanski 5mo ago

How about a second phone for the things you list?

logicchains 5mo ago

I'd wager the majority of people on this site could afford $100-$200 for a separate phone that's solely used for apps that mandate Google/Apple services. As a bonus, using the "mainstream" phone with only those apps increases security, compared to having your banking apps on the same phone as other random apps.

stdatomic 5mo ago

There was a time back in covid days where you had to have an app on your phone to go through customs clearance in Canada.

dandandandan2 5mo ago
I flew from Canada to Australia during deep Covid ($15k flight, mandatory locked in hotel for 10 days for $3k, etc) I don’t have a phone.
abc123abc123 5mo ago
I flew all over europe, no smart phone, no mask. I printed my own doctors notes and corona passports and they worked flawlessly everywhere. Towards the end, I copied other peoples QR-codes and printed them out, and that worked nicely as well.
deaux 5mo ago
I refuse to believe that's true. That they were denying Dorothy (92) from going through customs because she couldn't use an app. That's an extraordinary claim. If they weren't denying Dorothy, that means you did not need an app.
- vivekd 5mo ago
  It was compulsory during COVID and it became optional later https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArriveCAN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArriveCAN
  - deaux 5mo ago
    From what I'm reading, non-users weren't and couldn't have actually been denied entry. It wouldn't have held up in court either. They could be made to quarantine.

O1111OOO 5mo ago

> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Is it the phone or just the mobile operating system? I do most of my phone stuff on a tablet that I keep at home - where it's safer. I am currently using an Android phone (without an account) for GPS, phone calls (contacts), internet, games, email (alternatives to google), etc... But for those critical and sensitive apps (banking, etc)... I consider those to be too dangerous to be walking around with. So any phone will serve (I can wait to get home to check email for example).

tgsovlerkhgsel 5mo ago
That doesn't solve for services that by definition need to be accessed on the go, e.g. public transit, parcel pickup, luggage lockers, rental bikes, restaurant menus, paying for parking, etc. (some of these may not mandate phones in your area yet or may allow mobile web alternatives, these are just examples where I've seen strong pushes towards apps or at leas in many places).
- thewebguyd 5mo ago
  We'd need regulation for that. Either a mandate that the digital option is optional, and services must have an alternative means, or a mandate that any app based service also has an equally viable mobile web option, making the app optional. Tbh I see no reason why all of that couldn't just be a website instead of a native app. Menus should just be a website, transit should still be offering physical metro cards, the lockers & bikes could just as easily be a website. Folks on HN won't like this ida but quite frankly I'd go a step further and have a mandate that services like these must offer an API for the public to use in order to bring their own app/solution. It'd be nice to not be limited to exclusively first party options. How ridiculous is it that there are so many different pay for parking apps, when if all of them just offered an API I could roll my one all in one parking web app, etc. I'd even pay a subscription, like many of these services offer already, for API access instead.
- Insimwytim 5mo ago
  > restaurant menus Well, that's easy to deal with - don't go the restaurants that openly disrespect you. Out of all the examples you have presented everything had worked somehow without phones not so long ago. Maybe, with the exception of online public transit status streaming. And public transit still works without it.

brookst 5mo ago

It’s always been the case. In previous eras people were “forced” to use mastercard / visa, Windows, AT&T, Western Union, East India Company, Templar bnking, etc. I am not remotely defending the situation, past or present, just saying it’s a recurring theme.

api 5mo ago

It's mind blowing that we've allowed the development of a de-factor personal ID device absolutely controlled by an oligopoly of two private corporations. Do people realize that this means either of these companies, since they can remotely turn off your account or device, can deplatform you from society including from many government services? It's an astounding amount of power we have simply ceded to these two companies.

bigbadfeline 5mo ago
> It's an astounding amount of power we have simply ceded to these two companies. We didn't do it, our representatives did it for us, mostly unaware of what they were doing and still without a clue about what to do with whatever they've created. No they can't, and they won't, academia BS isn't helping anyone either.
pbgcp2026 5mo ago
I know you are not going to like it, but it started when they took our guns. Now they took our jobs. Next is unified minimal global personal tax (seems to be decided at 30%). On unrealised capital gains. And phones? That's a smoke screen for you to look other way. (And to watch you all the time too)

1vuio0pswjnm7 5mo ago

"As an individual, it feels like my options are to either submit or try to live a hermit's life, bringing endless suffering and exclusion to myself." Classic "all-or-nothing", "black and white" HN comment No middle ground. Two extremes and nothing in between In the real world, few people think this way Not only that, but it's common today to have more than one computer There is no shortage of HN comments that keep claiming "banking apps" as an argument against any alternatives to using a single phone running a corporate mobile OS _for everything they do with a computer_, not just banking. Feels like a meme These people must do a lot of banking on the go in places where laptops, for instance, cannot travel. If so, one wonders why not just have a phone dedicated to mobile banking

cindyllm 5mo ago
[dead]
jolmg 5mo ago
This probably depends on location, but generally, you cannot log in to your bank account on your laptop/computer without using your phone's banking app for 2FA. That's the status quo among banks. Whether it may be possible to convince a bank to give you a hardware token instead if they even still make them is not an assured thing.
- medvidek 5mo ago
  I have several accounts in different banks (across two different countries) and never had problems with using SMS as a second factor for internet banking. Definitely not status quo, at least in Europe.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 5mo ago
    Interesting that you mention Europe, because if I remember correctly, at least in Germany, all banks that I'm aware of dropped SMS support when PSD2 was introduced.
  - microtonal 5mo ago

dandandandan2 5mo ago

> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone Hyperbole much. I’m a 44 year old software engin, I don’t have a phone. Have never had a smart phone, haven’t had a dumb phone since 2015. Some things are annoying, for example, I have to keep pushing my bank to let me use email not SMS. Going somewhere new I’ll look online on my laptop and jot down a few directions on paper. That’s about it. I snowboard and hike and hunt and camp and fish, no coverage doing all those anyway, so much of my life when not in a house with a laptop I simply don’t need or want one.

dandandandan2 5mo ago

> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone Hyperbole doesn’t help. I’m a 44 year old former software engineer now with a modest social media following (100k per platform). I don’t have a phone. I’ve never had a smart phone, last dumb phone gone in 2015. I have to hassle my bank to let me use email instead of SMS for 2FA, and I hand jot notes for driving directions sometimes. Otherwise, I’m immensely happy not to have one.

slumberlust 5mo ago
How could it be hyperbole when you give two examples of the increasing pain?
- j_bum 5mo ago
  GP said “can no longer exist”. Listing a few challenges of a phoneless life doesn’t negate the point that one can still exist without a phone, even in 2026.
  - manincharge 5mo ago
    [dead]
- abc123abc123 5mo ago
  Because these two examples are tiny in comparison with the decrease in surveillance you will get, and the example you set for your fellow men, and just spreading the norm in society that ubiquitous surveillance is wrong and that we can live ethical lives without being slaves and chained to the government and corporations.
  - cromka 5mo ago
    You still use the internet. Just avoiding a mobile phone is not a magic pill against surveillance.
    - 5mo ago

jjav 5mo ago

> Nowadays, you can no longer exist in society without a phone. Fight this, fight it hard. It is not acceptable to have to pay a monthly fee to a giant corporation to participate in unrelated things. I do have a cell phone (grudgingly) but I go way out of my way to never use it. I tell every business I only have a landline phone (which I do have). I will not use anything that supposedly requires a phone, give me an alternative or you're not getting my business. While I don't have the full ethical commitment of RMS, I can be very obstinate and will push this hard.

ShinyLeftPad 5mo ago
> It is not acceptable to have to pay a monthly fee to a giant corporation to participate in unrelated things. Do you always have to pay a monthly fee with a smartphone? Are there pre-paid SIM cards?
- jjav 5mo ago
  I have a cheap pre-paid plan (US Mobile). It's still a monthly fee though.

ProllyInfamous 5mo ago

>you can no longer exist in society without a phone. I do just fine without. But certainly there are additional challenges. In my city, for example, there has been a massive shift towards phone-pay parking... which excludes my paying for it — still waiting for my citation (to challenge in court). Carrying my pager with me is the only reason people will pretend-believe I'm actually phoneless. Many have never seen beeper technology, its one-way advancedness.