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You don’t have to be privileged to live in the physical world. I quit programming to make candles for years, then apartment maintenance, now in the trades. I ma

You don’t have to be privileged to live in the physical world. I quit programming to make candles for years, then apartment maintenance, now in the trades. I make 1/3 what I was making doing digital work, and I’d take a pay cut before returning. The reasons I had for leaving were manifold, but the big two were wanting to quit Adderall and having read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. It’s a hard road to live a life in which I want to maximize the /quality/ of my minute-to-minute experience. It involves being very honest with myself about what I want to and don’t want to be doing. I know I want to look at a screen for work like I want a hole in the head. If you want to jump into the physical world, become a janitor. The work is surprisingly satisfying. You spend all day fixing tangible problems that increase everyone’s quality of life.

virgildotcodes 5mo ago
You may have missed that they're from the developing world, where menial labor is far less well paid and far more backbreaking and dangerous than in the US.
- stavros 5mo ago
  Korea is hardly the developing world, but they're from not-US, basically, which might as well be the developing world as far as the conversation is concerned.
  - virgildotcodes 5mo ago
    Hmm, yeah I'm confused, they said "as a citizen of the third world" but then noted working in Korea and Japan.
    - jdw64 5mo ago
      The point that is often misunderstood is this: Korea is a wealthy country, but that wealth is highly concentrated in Seoul. Once you leave Seoul, the quality of jobs often drops significantly.
      - shimman 5mo ago
        Also why are we acting like Korean workers aren't actively being exploited upon? Long hours, no time off; hardly a society worth preserving unless you're an elite who disregards human life.
    - Tomte 5mo ago
      Third world is historically outside the American (first world) and Soviet bloc (second world). I don‘t think it‘s terribly relevant today, but why beat around the bush? Let‘s call it how we mean it: Poor.
      - deleted 5mo ago
        [deleted]
      - Terr_ 5mo ago
        > Third world is historically outside the American (first world) and Soviet bloc (second world). Right, and Korea is so incredibly-not "third world" that there's literally an armed border chopped across it dividing the extremely-First part from the extremely-Second part. In fact, I don't think there's a single third-world country (cold-war definition) anywhere within 2,000 miles.
    - redanddead 5mo ago
      The third world in 2026 is a high bar
hirvi74 5mo ago
> I quit programming to make candles for years, then apartment maintenance, now in the trades. I make 1/3 what I was making doing digital work, and I’d take a pay cut before returning. This honestly brings me hope in a sort of fantasy way. I want to do this, but I do not have the courage to do it. > The reasons I had for leaving were manifold, but the big two were wanting to quit Adderall This hits even harder for me. I desire this too, but it's a necessary evil so long as I remain in tech.
- cestith 5mo ago
  There’s a very powerful question to be asked when one hears about someone wanting to quit Adderall. Are you on it because you need it for who you are, or are you on it because you need it to meet the expectations of your employer?
  - justonceokay 5mo ago
    For me (OP) The “question” was more straightforward: I became an addict to various drugs and having a perscripton to uppers is a very bad idea for me.
    - cestith 5mo ago
      That’s probably the best reason to want to quit.
  - hirvi74 5mo ago
    To answer your question, both. Who I am is functionally disordered based on the societal expectations of how people should behave. Employer expectations of behavior are often harsher than societal expectations in some ways. It's like what Franz Kafka said, "I was ashamed of myself when I realized life was a masquerade party, and I attended with my real face." I was eventually given a mask to cover up who I am, and I have worn it for far too long. The rat race with no cheese at the end, the 'professionalism,' the 'career development', and all the theatrical and ceremonial bullshit. Setting myself on fire to keep others warm. Killing myself from the inside out with a poison to please others. I am just so sick of it all. And most importantly, I am sick of pretending that I am not.
yoyohello13 5mo ago
Thanks for sharing your experience. I've been working toward transitioning from software to para-medicine. Spending my days working on random bullshit to 'increase shareholder value', which is at best neutral for society, is depressing. Actually doing something useful for real people in the real world seems like a way out. But I feel very scared, and sort of stupid and ungrateful, to be considering taking a job with worse hours and benefits for a 1/4 of the pay.
- justonceokay 5mo ago
  The trade-off is real, and a hard one. For people that have a family and kids it’s probably worth it to stay at the “horrible” job. At least more worth considering. For me though the peace and presence of mind is nigh invaluable. Because I’m working on something that doesn’t make me depressed, I get to be grateful in all of the little moments of the day. I work with brass-tacks people who do a good job and go home. I don’t have to pretend to like anyone. I spend a lot more time outside. My skills are useful wherever I go, and more likely to be directly useful to loved ones. I don’t need a gym membership. I find myself to be a lot more present and unbothered. My time outside of work is truly my own, an even though I am often more physically tired I’m able to show up better for my family and friends. When it comes to “physical” jobs, do consider the downsides though. For me, paramedic would be a bad fit because I don’t think I could get over hearing the siren so often. There’s a reason nurses are often “mean”, the job requires a very thick skin.
tasuki 5mo ago
> If you want to jump into the physical world, become a janitor. The work is surprisingly satisfying. You spend all day fixing tangible problems that increase everyone’s quality of life. Hah, first time I hear this piece of advice, but I totally buy it. But... why are you here on this orange website? Isn't a part of you longing for the ones and zeroes still?
- justonceokay 5mo ago
  I feel a kinship for programming because I did it for 15 years. I do not long for the 1s and 0s…
suncemoje 5mo ago
What from the book inspired you?
- justonceokay 5mo ago
  One of the main arguments in the book is that in history the sophists get a very bad shake. The common take is that Socrates beat the rhetoriticians, and science wins out over the humanities. The authors point though is that “quality” can never be a scientifically found thing. Yet it completely dominates our real experience. Even an amoeba has a sense of quality, in that if you drop alcohol in the Petri dish it will expend all of its effort to get away. Humans have a more complicated and diverse sense of quality. We like rain and sunsets and crackling fire and dogs and right angles and clean sheets. To me the book is an argument for caring deeply about your own sense of quality. To listen intently to that subconscious and illogical part of you that screams “this is good, that is bad”. All of our intelligence and smarts should be used to better align ourselves with what our body knows is good and bad, not the other way around. For me, to operationalize this meant becoming sober, working with my hands in the physical world to solve real problems, pursuing/allowing my gay feelings, and trying as hard as I can to take everything in life with grace and humor. 10 years ago I used to be the worst kind of pedantic know-it-all asexual druggie who spent all day inside programming useless things and playing video games. I wasn’t pursuing quality. I was pursuing the comfort of never having to leave my tiny existence. Now I’m doing something else.
wao0uuno 5mo ago
Why did you want to quit Adderall? I recently started taking ADHD medication and I couldn't be happier with results.
- suburban_strike 5mo ago
  It has diminishing returns. Taken continuously you'll only get 5-7 years out of it. One thing I've noticed is that it fuels people with a sense of self-righteousness that will alienate you from everyone around you (you're basically on weak meth) but you won't notice how much you're pissing them off because you're personally happy. Everything you do is going to seem like the right thing to do. You'll save the world and not care how many women or children you kill to make it happen. - One of my stepdaughter's friends was on it and got exiled from their friend group for vague "aggression." - My wife was on it for a decade. She outright abused it, taking the whole bottle in a week. It was worse than living with a coked-up psychopath; she would stay awake for days stealing, trespassing, starting home renovations (and I am being specific in saying "starting"), starting arguments, smashing my things during those arguments, assaulting me while I was asleep later that night, then sleeping the rest of the month. To this day I fear going to sleep. - My best friend of 20 years got on it, embraced predatory feminism as a dating strategy and tried to convince my wife that she was in an abusive relationship, establishing himself as a safe space. Unfortunately for him, she was sober by then. We are no longer friends. She and I are still married. He is still a virgin. Like cocaine in the 80s, I have a feeling Adderall has fueled a lot of the insanity since 2000.
  - wao0uuno 5mo ago
    That's nuts. Especially the substance abuse part. That shit definitely can be dangerous if not treated with respect. I'm taking baby doses of methylphenidate, keeping a strict diet (no sugar, coffee, white bread or ultra processed junk) and exercising regularly. I'm also skipping meds on weekends to give my brain some time to rest. But yeah, I know that eventually I'll have to start taking higher doses and that scares me a bit. Hopefully I'll be able to achieve my goals before that.
- justonceokay 5mo ago

virgildotcodes 5mo ago

You may have missed that they're from the developing world, where menial labor is far less well paid and far more backbreaking and dangerous than in the US.

stavros 5mo ago
Korea is hardly the developing world, but they're from not-US, basically, which might as well be the developing world as far as the conversation is concerned.
- virgildotcodes 5mo ago
  Hmm, yeah I'm confused, they said "as a citizen of the third world" but then noted working in Korea and Japan.
  - jdw64 5mo ago
    The point that is often misunderstood is this: Korea is a wealthy country, but that wealth is highly concentrated in Seoul. Once you leave Seoul, the quality of jobs often drops significantly.
    - shimman 5mo ago
      Also why are we acting like Korean workers aren't actively being exploited upon? Long hours, no time off; hardly a society worth preserving unless you're an elite who disregards human life.
  - Tomte 5mo ago
    Third world is historically outside the American (first world) and Soviet bloc (second world). I don‘t think it‘s terribly relevant today, but why beat around the bush? Let‘s call it how we mean it: Poor.
    - deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
    - Terr_ 5mo ago
      > Third world is historically outside the American (first world) and Soviet bloc (second world). Right, and Korea is so incredibly-not "third world" that there's literally an armed border chopped across it dividing the extremely-First part from the extremely-Second part. In fact, I don't think there's a single third-world country (cold-war definition) anywhere within 2,000 miles.
  - redanddead 5mo ago
    The third world in 2026 is a high bar

hirvi74 5mo ago

> I quit programming to make candles for years, then apartment maintenance, now in the trades. I make 1/3 what I was making doing digital work, and I’d take a pay cut before returning. This honestly brings me hope in a sort of fantasy way. I want to do this, but I do not have the courage to do it. > The reasons I had for leaving were manifold, but the big two were wanting to quit Adderall This hits even harder for me. I desire this too, but it's a necessary evil so long as I remain in tech.

cestith 5mo ago
There’s a very powerful question to be asked when one hears about someone wanting to quit Adderall. Are you on it because you need it for who you are, or are you on it because you need it to meet the expectations of your employer?
- justonceokay 5mo ago
  For me (OP) The “question” was more straightforward: I became an addict to various drugs and having a perscripton to uppers is a very bad idea for me.
  - cestith 5mo ago
    That’s probably the best reason to want to quit.
- hirvi74 5mo ago
  To answer your question, both. Who I am is functionally disordered based on the societal expectations of how people should behave. Employer expectations of behavior are often harsher than societal expectations in some ways. It's like what Franz Kafka said, "I was ashamed of myself when I realized life was a masquerade party, and I attended with my real face." I was eventually given a mask to cover up who I am, and I have worn it for far too long. The rat race with no cheese at the end, the 'professionalism,' the 'career development', and all the theatrical and ceremonial bullshit. Setting myself on fire to keep others warm. Killing myself from the inside out with a poison to please others. I am just so sick of it all. And most importantly, I am sick of pretending that I am not.

yoyohello13 5mo ago

Thanks for sharing your experience. I've been working toward transitioning from software to para-medicine. Spending my days working on random bullshit to 'increase shareholder value', which is at best neutral for society, is depressing. Actually doing something useful for real people in the real world seems like a way out. But I feel very scared, and sort of stupid and ungrateful, to be considering taking a job with worse hours and benefits for a 1/4 of the pay.

justonceokay 5mo ago
The trade-off is real, and a hard one. For people that have a family and kids it’s probably worth it to stay at the “horrible” job. At least more worth considering. For me though the peace and presence of mind is nigh invaluable. Because I’m working on something that doesn’t make me depressed, I get to be grateful in all of the little moments of the day. I work with brass-tacks people who do a good job and go home. I don’t have to pretend to like anyone. I spend a lot more time outside. My skills are useful wherever I go, and more likely to be directly useful to loved ones. I don’t need a gym membership. I find myself to be a lot more present and unbothered. My time outside of work is truly my own, an even though I am often more physically tired I’m able to show up better for my family and friends. When it comes to “physical” jobs, do consider the downsides though. For me, paramedic would be a bad fit because I don’t think I could get over hearing the siren so often. There’s a reason nurses are often “mean”, the job requires a very thick skin.

tasuki 5mo ago

> If you want to jump into the physical world, become a janitor. The work is surprisingly satisfying. You spend all day fixing tangible problems that increase everyone’s quality of life. Hah, first time I hear this piece of advice, but I totally buy it. But... why are you here on this orange website? Isn't a part of you longing for the ones and zeroes still?

justonceokay 5mo ago
I feel a kinship for programming because I did it for 15 years. I do not long for the 1s and 0s…

suncemoje 5mo ago

What from the book inspired you?

justonceokay 5mo ago
One of the main arguments in the book is that in history the sophists get a very bad shake. The common take is that Socrates beat the rhetoriticians, and science wins out over the humanities. The authors point though is that “quality” can never be a scientifically found thing. Yet it completely dominates our real experience. Even an amoeba has a sense of quality, in that if you drop alcohol in the Petri dish it will expend all of its effort to get away. Humans have a more complicated and diverse sense of quality. We like rain and sunsets and crackling fire and dogs and right angles and clean sheets. To me the book is an argument for caring deeply about your own sense of quality. To listen intently to that subconscious and illogical part of you that screams “this is good, that is bad”. All of our intelligence and smarts should be used to better align ourselves with what our body knows is good and bad, not the other way around. For me, to operationalize this meant becoming sober, working with my hands in the physical world to solve real problems, pursuing/allowing my gay feelings, and trying as hard as I can to take everything in life with grace and humor. 10 years ago I used to be the worst kind of pedantic know-it-all asexual druggie who spent all day inside programming useless things and playing video games. I wasn’t pursuing quality. I was pursuing the comfort of never having to leave my tiny existence. Now I’m doing something else.

wao0uuno 5mo ago

Why did you want to quit Adderall? I recently started taking ADHD medication and I couldn't be happier with results.

suburban_strike 5mo ago
It has diminishing returns. Taken continuously you'll only get 5-7 years out of it. One thing I've noticed is that it fuels people with a sense of self-righteousness that will alienate you from everyone around you (you're basically on weak meth) but you won't notice how much you're pissing them off because you're personally happy. Everything you do is going to seem like the right thing to do. You'll save the world and not care how many women or children you kill to make it happen. - One of my stepdaughter's friends was on it and got exiled from their friend group for vague "aggression." - My wife was on it for a decade. She outright abused it, taking the whole bottle in a week. It was worse than living with a coked-up psychopath; she would stay awake for days stealing, trespassing, starting home renovations (and I am being specific in saying "starting"), starting arguments, smashing my things during those arguments, assaulting me while I was asleep later that night, then sleeping the rest of the month. To this day I fear going to sleep. - My best friend of 20 years got on it, embraced predatory feminism as a dating strategy and tried to convince my wife that she was in an abusive relationship, establishing himself as a safe space. Unfortunately for him, she was sober by then. We are no longer friends. She and I are still married. He is still a virgin. Like cocaine in the 80s, I have a feeling Adderall has fueled a lot of the insanity since 2000.
- wao0uuno 5mo ago
  That's nuts. Especially the substance abuse part. That shit definitely can be dangerous if not treated with respect. I'm taking baby doses of methylphenidate, keeping a strict diet (no sugar, coffee, white bread or ultra processed junk) and exercising regularly. I'm also skipping meds on weekends to give my brain some time to rest. But yeah, I know that eventually I'll have to start taking higher doses and that scares me a bit. Hopefully I'll be able to achieve my goals before that.
justonceokay 5mo ago